Taliban killed 1,165 worshippers in past 10 years

[ScimitarXEdge]

Scimitar,
We will have to wait for a whistle blower from the Mosad headquarters that transfer sensitive documents to wikileaks but for now we only have Richard Sale. But you have to agree that even today Israel has an embargo on Hamas ruled Gaza but in reality money from the Israeli government is directly being transferred to Hamas and that is admitted by their own governm,ent.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=178&nid=16447

point being Israel is helping Hamas rule gaza and officially they are saying that hamas is the #1 threat to Israel.

Then I am confused at how the claims from your sources were saying that the ICT released articles and documents in which this information existed, and that the information is somehow accessible. If it's not available at the source claimed, then please show us where we can find it.


I'm doing a google search with texts from the article; all I can find are Blogs or Conspiracy Theorist websites like "abovetopsecret" which allude to this material. If Ehud Olmert or his office publicly admitted it, this would be on every major and independent news source internationally. Not even Russia Today or Press TV Iran has anything about it.

Also the claim therein is not logically consistent, if Israel stopped funding, HAMAS gets hundreds of millions from Iran and Private Saudis, Kuwaitis and people from the Gulf States. Given how small Gaza is both in land mass and population, that would more than cover all major expenses.

[khushal]

Scimitar,
I did find the transfer of money to Gaza. it was to the PA who is Hamas in Gaza, its on an Israeli government website in the middle if you scroll down.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+...5-May-2010.htm
In 2009, 1.1 billion shekels (about $250 million) were transferred to the Gaza Strip for the ongoing activity of international organizations and to pay the salaries of Palestinian Authority workers.

I am going through some of those ICT papers, it is time consuming but at the same time very educational. There is one that might be of interest.
scroll down and read the roots and perceptions of Hamas.
http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/tabid...5/Default.aspx

Hamas' origins have been rooted in the Muslim Brotherhood Society (MB) (jama'at al-ikhwan al-muslimin) in the Gaza Strip and more specifically, in its main embodiment since the late 1970s - al-Mujamma' al-Islami.

While I agree with most of what you said about the afghan resistence learning from the hamas model. At the same time the afghans are an uneducated population while the palistinians are a very educated population. The two resistence movements are in different environments and are dealing with different advesaries and the two will evolve differently. As you can see that Hamas and Hezbolah evolved very similarly even though they have sunni/shia difference but their environment and advesary is the same.

[khushal]

Scimitar,
Here is the ICT papers youve been looking for. Read the 2nd paragraph
http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/tabid...1/Default.aspx

. In 1978 the movement, led by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, registered as a non-profit organization called the Moujama.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Khushal wrorra , thank you for your work; I'm grateful for your efforts however; it seems the material therein is not consistent with the original source or the original claim of the argument.

Firstly, in the second post's link it doesn't allude to Israel creating or funding HAMAS. It just discusses how HAMAS went from preaching to active militancy.

As for the transfer of money to the Palestinian Authority, there are supporters of Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Authority workers in Gaza. HAMAS is not the same as the Palestinian Authority. While it's true HAMAS takes upon the label of Palestinian National Authority; the international community and especially Israel does not acknowledge that term for HAMAS, but for the Government of Mahmoud Abbas. In short the money is going to Mahmoud Abbas' supporters and not HAMAS.

[khushal]

Thanks for the discussion scimitar, I did learn from it and changed some of my views on the matter.

[randolph85]

i am trying to find an article i read on haaretz a while back about israel supporting the splintering of the PA by hamas, not that it was created by israel but israel was more than happy to see the palis divided. and now with things the way they are, they wish they had always supported the PA and want to get rid of hamas.

hamas is the only thing standing between israel and a nuetered peace agreement which leaves legitimate pali demands in the dust. as for israel supporting hamas politically and financially, i dont buy it. the PA is israels greatest hope for "peace" on israels terms yet are broke and cant even pay their own government officials.

[khushal]

i am trying to find an article i read on haaretz a while back about israel supporting the splintering of the PA by hamas, not that it was created by israel but israel was more than happy to see the palis divided. and now with things the way they are, they wish they had always supported the PA and want to get rid of hamas.

hamas is the only thing standing between israel and a nuetered peace agreement which leaves legitimate pali demands in the dust. as for israel supporting hamas politically and financially, i dont buy it. the PA is israels greatest hope for "peace" on israels terms yet are broke and cant even pay their own government officials.

The PA of today is not the PLO of the 80's and 90's. Israelis original plan was to have a palistinain leadership that refused to make peace with Israel because they were the more powerfull force and they knew they could just take land by force and annex it Israel.

Israel wanted to create the illusion that they are interested in making peace but it is the Palistinians that refuse to make peace and Hamas was the tool that they used to make their argument. Israels short term goal is to annex the west bank, a peace deal would would delay or eliminate that goal.

[parsiwaan]

KARACHI – Lethal attacks by Taliban militants hit 54 Pakistani places of worship of various faiths in the past 10 years, killing 1,165 worshippers and injuring about 2,900, a recent report revealed.

The defiled holy places included mosques, churches, Sufi shrines, Shia processions and Imam Barghas, Ahmadi worship centres and missionary schools, a report compiled by Muhammad Nafees, a Karachi-based independent security analyst and researcher, shows.

The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and affiliated banned sectarian organisations like Jaish-e-Muhammad and Jundullah claimed responsibility in almost all cases. Most of the victims were women and children. Holy books of various faiths were burnt in many attacks.

The most recent bombing occurred January 25 at a police check post in Lahore, killing 13 people and injuring 70 others. The suicide bomber may have been trying to hit either the shrine of Sufi Data Darbar or a Muharram procession, as the explosion occurred between the two, media reported....

http://centralasiaonline.com/cocoon/.../31/feature-01

Allah o Akbar, this is part of Jahad fe Sabeullah...kill kafirs and if they are not kafir then they will go to Paradise with young boys and 72 virgin (correct translation per German scholar 72 raisin.) viva the true religion of superior bydawins Arabs.

[ScimitarXEdge]

correct translation based on Aramaic linguistics? I don't think so.

[Nadir Shah]

The PA of today is not the PLO of the 80's and 90's. Israelis original plan was to have a palistinain leadership that refused to make peace with Israel because they were the more powerfull force and they knew they could just take land by force and annex it Israel.

Israel wanted to create the illusion that they are interested in making peace but it is the Palistinians that refuse to make peace and Hamas was the tool that they used to make their argument. Israels short term goal is to annex the west bank, a peace deal would would delay or eliminate that goal.

Malgariya, this is not based on facts at all. The Arabs were given 44% of Judae and Samaria in 1948 which they rejected, now they are begging for 22%. Israel's policy of land for peace is tried and tested. Israel returned Sinai to Egypt after the Camp David Accords in return for normalcy and peace. This policy is the only solution to the Mid-East crisis. I actually support giving the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan and Egypt respectively, as the 'Palestinian' state can become a potential terrorist safe haven.

[Nadir Shah]

Israel has no right to exist anyways, so everything you just said is irrelevant. Why should Palestinians negotiate for their own land?

Palestinians should have accepted anything at the time, but only on condition that there would be COMPLETE independence, and that was something Israel refused because they did not want the Palestinians to have an army.

Gap ma lagawa sarheya. The history, culture, traditions, institutions and religion of the Jewish people is totally linked to the land of Israel. The Jewish people were displaced from there homes in ancient Israel. They wandered for two millenia and returned to create the only democratic and stable state in ME. Of course, they have gone wrong at certain places but you cannot take away the right to exist just like that.
Who is gonna be in the Palestinian army? Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs? You see it is very harsh to expect Israel to allow a terrorist army to exist at its gates. That is why I want two responsible states to control the 'Palestinian' West Bank and Gaza.

[randolph85]

Malgariya, this is not based on facts at all. The Arabs were given 44% of Judae and Samaria in 1948 which they rejected, now they are begging for 22%. Israel's policy of land for peace is tried and tested. Israel returned Sinai to Egypt after the Camp David Accords in return for normalcy and peace. This policy is the only solution to the Mid-East crisis. I actually support giving the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan and Egypt respectively, as the 'Palestinian' state can become a potential terrorist safe haven.

lol

[ScimitarXEdge]

Gap ma lagawa sarheya. The history, culture, traditions, institutions and religion of the Jewish people is totally linked to the land of Israel. The Jewish people were displaced from there homes in ancient Israel. They wandered for two millenia and returned to create the only democratic and stable state in ME. Of course, they have gone wrong at certain places but you cannot take away the right to exist just like that.
Who is gonna be in the Palestinian army? Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs? You see it is very harsh to expect Israel to allow a terrorist army to exist at its gates. That is why I want two responsible states to control the 'Palestinian' West Bank and Gaza.

The problem with your claim is that this idea that the history culture and religion of the Jewish people is actually linked to this land is completely forged and without any actual anthropological or archeological basis. If you read the Judaic scriptures themselves, the Jews usurped land from the Philistines, Canaanites and Phonecians. So the claim of legitimacy is totally unfounded and merely folkore to promote Hebrew ethnofascism. As for wandering two millenia, this is also untrue, Jews have lived in Palestine all through out the last two millenia. In fact During most Muslim rulerships of the region, the Jews had protectorateship status which ensured they have access to and were allowed to remain in the land. It's actually the Jewish Rabbinical Tradition, known as the Talmud which had encouraged Jews to leave their lands on account that they're in exile until the arrival if the Maschiach. This was the standard Jewish viewpoint until the Zionist Movement came about and reinterpreted the concept of Messianic Revivalism amongst the Jews, this however was an innovation.

Now don't misunderstand me, I'm not claiming that Hebrews did not inhabit this land or that Hebrews did not originate from this region; in fact they did. What I am saying is that the land was never exclusively there's and that some Hebrew-centered ethnic state never existed. In fact Hebrews themselves are just derived from other ethnicities such as Canaanites. The Jewish Homeland is a myth.

With that said for the argument you postulate to have merit it must rely on the idea that jews had some sort of intrinsic right established by verifiable evidence; none of which actually exists. So the argument is meritless and false. The Israelis are wrongfully occupying someone else's homeland which even their religion forbids them from inhabiting until a Messianic Figure returns....if he returns, so the claim of Israel is a democratic institution that has a right to exist is false. The claim that the Palestinians are terrorizing Israel who intruded upon the Palestinians is merely a smokescreen tactic to falsify legitimacy.



Here's an important book for you to read which was written by an Israeli Scholar at Tel Aviv University.



Please read it and enlighten yourself about the fallacies of the Israeli establishment from their OWN MOUTHS.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Malgariya, this is not based on facts at all. The Arabs were given 44% of Judae and Samaria in 1948 which they rejected, now they are begging for 22%. Israel's policy of land for peace is tried and tested. Israel returned Sinai to Egypt after the Camp David Accords in return for normalcy and peace. This policy is the only solution to the Mid-East crisis. I actually support giving the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan and Egypt respectively, as the 'Palestinian' state can become a potential terrorist safe haven.

Neither is the claim that israel was some sort of Hebrew homeland.

[khushal]

Malgariya, this is not based on facts at all. The Arabs were given 44% of Judae and Samaria in 1948 which they rejected, now they are begging for 22%. Israel's policy of land for peace is tried and tested. Israel returned Sinai to Egypt after the Camp David Accords in return for normalcy and peace. This policy is the only solution to the Mid-East crisis. I actually support giving the West Bank and Gaza to Jordan and Egypt respectively, as the 'Palestinian' state can become a potential terrorist safe haven.

Yes of course it is only you that has the facts. You also beleive the anglos enslaved the africans so they can have a good life in america one day vs fighting each other in africa.

You are of the notion that the palistinians are not human beings and they have no right for self determination for its people. The Palistinians should be ruled by US installed dictators that specialize in torture and supression of freedoms so they themselves can have a place to outsource torture and supression of freedom for certain individuals. Why dont you go live in those palistinian refugee camps, or better yet live under those lovable american made dictators since you know whats best for people.