Taliban killed 1,165 worshippers in past 10 years

[ScimitarXEdge]

Thank you, it says it's source are ICT papers, where are these papers?

[khushal]

ICT is the International institute for counter terrorism.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I'm on their website right now, can you help me find these source documents?

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[کیش]

Am suspicious of the planting bombs in civilian places. I think America is behind some, so the Taliban can lose support. It's a strategy of deceive. But, no doubt the Taliban have also placed their fair share of bombs in civilian places to target government officials.

[ScimitarXEdge]

of course, staged operations is something America is known to have done already; I'm certain that some of these explosions/attacks were directly American concocted. However, as you said, the Taliban are also guilty of their share.

[Master Khan]

They don't kill you in the name of religion.

pio nashawam wrora??

[khushal]

Scimitar,
Richard Sale is the author of "Clinton's secrete wars"
http://us.macmillan.com/author/richardsale

Heres a glimpse of Israeli involvement of lebonon's Bashir and Harari
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s.../richard_sale/

ICT is an Israeli think tank that figures out how to make terrorism into a state asset. Pakistan also uses terrorism as a state asset but in a different way. Israel uses it to legitimize itself and its actions by shaping international public opinion and the latter uses it to legitimize itself by creating instability in the heart of nations that threaten its legitimacy. Both have always claimed they are fighting terrorism but in reality it is they that create and covertly support it.

Heres a very interesting article: Hamas son of Israel

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/01/27/hamas-son-of-israel/

[Shehbaz Khan]

pio nashawam wrora??

Wroriya let's say the govt/americans etc etc are killing us .. but they are against us on the other hand the Talibans say that they are with us .. the are fighting for the Deen and they are killing the followers of that Deen?

[randolph85]

First you have to know where these groups came from.The palistinians were united under one leadership and Israels aim was to create two leaderships to devide them and have them use their energy quarreling with each other. The PLO had huge legitimacy in the international community and Israels viewed this as their biggest threat unless they destroy that legitimacy and today they are nothing. Hamas was first funded by the Israeli masod to counter Arafats PLO. Hezbolah was first created and funded by Israel to counter the PLO in Lebenon. Under Hezbolah the palistinians could never return to lebenon and that was the aim. . The PLO was also very powerfull in Jordan, Israel destroyed them there to with the help of Pakistani Zia al Haq. Israel doesnt want Gaza, they want the west bank and this weak PLO is there and they are losing ground everyday. Israel doesnt want lebonon, they want hezbolah there to create this illusion to the international community that they are surrounded by extremist and irrational enemies that target civilians, enemies that they themselves intentionally created. These enemies are weak, they are no threat to Israel whatsoever but an asset to Israel. To have the backing of the international community is priceless and they have figured out a way to have it at a very cheap price.

Randolph and schimcter, I could come to your house and imprison your whole family in a little room, you could yell and scream your lungs out but as long as I can convice the neighborhood that you are a threat to me and the whole neighborhood, they will do nothing to free you but help me keep you inprisoned.

The Afghan population was intentionally exteminized by the CIA where the books that were taught in the Madrasas in the refugee camps were actually printed in the USA. The CIA could have organized suicide bombing squads back in the 80's but it didnt serve their interests at the time. The CIA could have printed social science books and proper history books and be taught in the madrasas but that would not serve their interests. To have the Afghan Nation rise up with educated people is not and never will be in their interests because they know that educated people are hard to control. The people that support and organize suicide tactics like the quetta shura and the Haqani's are covertly funded by the CIA. They serve the CIA interests not the Afghan Peoples interests. The American military has the power and ability to go into north waziristan and Questta to dismantle the questta shura and the Haqanis but why do it when they are your assets. .
Randolph and Schmicter, you could criticize the Taliban for employing suicide tactics and you rightfully should but they will not stop unless you criticize the CIA for funding such groups. Many resistence groups are against this practice in afghanistan but there are certain elements in the resistence that employ these tactics that are funded by the CIA.

Once again I would like to say that the unsuccessfull NATO occupation of Afghanistan is directly unstabilizing the whole region.

well of course, the divide and conquer tactic is employed by those who want to splinter a movement. that is not to say the movement is infallible, as the PLO were mostly left leaning pro soviet marxists, whereas the islamic leaning people were left without a voice and found the ideology of the PLO as alien. hamas was founded in the 80s, the PLO didn't have much legitimacy back then unless u are talking about the soviet sphere of states in which they would support anything deemed as anti western.

israel will create any illusion that it needs to in order to maintain the aura of victimhood. just because movements like hezbollah and hamas exist, and israel uses these groups as its boogeymen, its not reason to blame these groups. if its not these groups, its the PLO, or nasser, or some other perceived threat which they need through the ages to maintain their victimhood.

as for the cia, what can i say that hasnt already been said? my initial post on the matter was to make clear that i dont hold the americans to the same standard as i do muslims. when an american shoots me its to be expected, when a muslim shoots me i am at a loss for words.

i agree that the invasion has created this mess, but unlike many ignorant members who believe this gives the taliban free reign to recklessly kill innocent civilians because of the situation, i obviously disagree.

[khushal]

Randolph,
but you have to agree the palistinians are much weaker today than they were 30 years ago, thanks to Israel creating hamas and hezbolah by outmanuevering the Arabs. Under International law, the Israeli's are responsible for the palistinians refugees. The only reason Hamas is popular in Gaza is because they get funded covertly by Israel, America and Iran and saudi money is given to them directly and with that money they are providing social services. Before Hamas, Israel was providing social services, Hamas just took over their responsibility which played right in Israeli hands, they are not responsible what happens there now while at the same time they are still building settlements in the west bank. The arabs are doing nothing to fight for their rights wheather its Hamas or Hezbolah, wheather they are kings or military dictators. You have 7 million Israelis surrounded by 300 million arabs, who could beleive the arabs are the victims.

Randolph, people are people wheather they are muslim, or kafur, black or white. nobody has the right to shoot anyone and you shouldnt expect that one party would shoot you and another party wouldnt. In most wars people shoot each when its in their interest, and they are not going to care if you are muslim or not. do you beleive that in a muslim society, assasins, murderers, theifs, pedophiles dont exist. They exist and expect them to exist just like the CIA knows they exist and they use this knowledge to defame Islam by pumping billions into those assasins, muderers, theifs, pediphiles. Nobody is pumping billions in to those that will bring stability and progress into the region.

Most people ignorantly think that Islam is the reason that the middle east is so behind the rest of the world. The number one thing that America and the west fears is Pan Islamism and they will do everything in their power from this to even take hold as an idea. A billion plus people under one federation will send ripples through the globe.

[randolph85]

Randolph,
but you have to agree the palistinians are much weaker today than they were 30 years ago, thanks to Israel creating hamas and hezbolah by outmanuevering the Arabs. Under International law, the Israeli's are responsible for the palistinians refugees. The only reason Hamas is popular in Gaza is because they get funded covertly by Israel, America and Iran and saudi money is given to them directly and with that money they are providing social services. Before Hamas, Israel was providing social services, Hamas just took over their responsibility which played right in Israeli hands, they are not responsible what happens there now while at the same time they are still building settlements in the west bank. The arabs are doing nothing to fight for their rights wheather its Hamas or Hezbolah, wheather they are kings or military dictators. You have 7 million Israelis surrounded by 300 million arabs, who could beleive the arabs are the victims.

Randolph, people are people wheather they are muslim, or kafur, black or white. nobody has the right to shoot anyone and you shouldnt expect that one party would shoot you and another party wouldnt. In most wars people shoot each when its in their interest, and they are not going to care if you are muslim or not. do you beleive that in a muslim society, assasins, murderers, theifs, pedophiles dont exist. They exist and expect them to exist just like the CIA knows they exist and they use this knowledge to defame Islam by pumping billions into those assasins, muderers, theifs, pediphiles. Nobody is pumping billions in to those that will bring stability and progress into the region.

Most people ignorantly think that Islam is the reason that the middle east is so behind the rest of the world. The number one thing that America and the west fears is Pan Islamism and they will do everything in their power from this to even take hold as an idea. A billion plus people under one federation will send ripples through the globe.

the palis are weaker because there is no longer a soviet union to back them and years of peace talks have gotten nowhere which has ruined their legitimacy. when arafat was swallowing whatever pride he had to talk to the israelis, the israelis were sending hundreds of thousands of their people to live in the west bank, palis got fed up and thought why are we talking to these people when they keep stealing our land. lets not also forget that hamas receives hundreds of millions of dollars from iran, and private gulf donors.

like i said, divide and conquer has always been the best tactic. they divided the secular PA and hamas emerged. the thing is that the nations who employ these tactics are not as smart as they seem, now we have hamas in power who will not accept these half ass peace agreements the PA will accept. just recently, hamas publicly stated that they would agree to 67 borders in a peace deal. recent leaked documents by al jazeera showed that the PA was negotiating a peace deal with israel to give up most of east jerusalem and a large chunk of the west bank. if there was no hamas today, this deal would of gone through and israel would be laughing.

i agree with u in regards to muslims and cia tactics. what i was getting at was the shortsighted ignorant folk who buy the taliban leaderships slogan of islamic resistance when they are as likely to be collateral damage to the taliban as they would be to the americans.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Scimitar,
Richard Sale is the author of "Clinton's secrete wars"
http://us.macmillan.com/author/richardsale

Heres a glimpse of Israeli involvement of lebonon's Bashir and Harari
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s.../richard_sale/

ICT is an Israeli think tank that figures out how to make terrorism into a state asset. Pakistan also uses terrorism as a state asset but in a different way. Israel uses it to legitimize itself and its actions by shaping international public opinion and the latter uses it to legitimize itself by creating instability in the heart of nations that threaten its legitimacy. Both have always claimed they are fighting terrorism but in reality it is they that create and covertly support it.

Heres a very interesting article: Hamas son of Israel
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...son-of-israel/

I still find nothing which verifies that HAMAS was in fact propped up by Israel. I realize what the ICT are; what I want is the source documents of the claims contained within these articles, it relates to the ICT, how did these people get ICT info, and yet this same info is unavailable on the website?

[ScimitarXEdge]

the palis are weaker because there is no longer a soviet union to back them and years of peace talks have gotten nowhere which has ruined their legitimacy. when arafat was swallowing whatever pride he had to talk to the israelis, the israelis were sending hundreds of thousands of their people to live in the west bank, palis got fed up and thought why are we talking to these people when they keep stealing our land. lets not also forget that hamas receives hundreds of millions of dollars from iran, and private gulf donors.

like i said, divide and conquer has always been the best tactic. they divided the secular PA and hamas emerged. the thing is that the nations who employ these tactics are not as smart as they seem, now we have hamas in power who will not accept these half ass peace agreements the PA will accept. just recently, hamas publicly stated that they would agree to 67 borders in a peace deal. recent leaked documents by al jazeera showed that the PA was negotiating a peace deal with israel to give up most of east jerusalem and a large chunk of the west bank. if there was no hamas today, this deal would of gone through and israel would be laughing.

i agree with u in regards to muslims and cia tactics. what i was getting at was the shortsighted ignorant folk who buy the taliban leaderships slogan of islamic resistance when they are as likely to be collateral damage to the taliban as they would be to the americans.

exactly, don't support America or the Taliban , create your own resistance movement against both. And the field of resistance are not just the Deserts of Qandahar, they can be sensitive computer systems at any banking institution. A War fought on all fronts, against the System of Dajjal.

[khushal]

Scimitar,
We will have to wait for a whistle blower from the Mosad headquarters that transfer sensitive documents to wikileaks but for now we only have Richard Sale. But you have to agree that even today Israel has an embargo on Hamas ruled Gaza but in reality money from the Israeli government is directly being transferred to Hamas and that is admitted by their own governm,ent.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=178&nid=16447

point being Israel is helping Hamas rule gaza and officially they are saying that hamas is the #1 threat to Israel.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Randolph,
but you have to agree the palistinians are much weaker today than they were 30 years ago, thanks to Israel creating hamas and hezbolah by outmanuevering the Arabs. Under International law, the Israeli's are responsible for the palistinians refugees. The only reason Hamas is popular in Gaza is because they get funded covertly by Israel, America and Iran and saudi money is given to them directly and with that money they are providing social services. Before Hamas, Israel was providing social services, Hamas just took over their responsibility which played right in Israeli hands, they are not responsible what happens there now while at the same time they are still building settlements in the west bank. The arabs are doing nothing to fight for their rights wheather its Hamas or Hezbolah, wheather they are kings or military dictators. You have 7 million Israelis surrounded by 300 million arabs, who could beleive the arabs are the victims.

Randolph, people are people wheather they are muslim, or kafur, black or white. nobody has the right to shoot anyone and you shouldnt expect that one party would shoot you and another party wouldnt. In most wars people shoot each when its in their interest, and they are not going to care if you are muslim or not. do you beleive that in a muslim society, assasins, murderers, theifs, pedophiles dont exist. They exist and expect them to exist just like the CIA knows they exist and they use this knowledge to defame Islam by pumping billions into those assasins, muderers, theifs, pediphiles. Nobody is pumping billions in to those that will bring stability and progress into the region.

Most people ignorantly think that Islam is the reason that the middle east is so behind the rest of the world. The number one thing that America and the west fears is Pan Islamism and they will do everything in their power from this to even take hold as an idea. A billion plus people under one federation will send ripples through the globe.

Well first we haven't even concretely established whether or not HAMAS/Hizbollah were in fact established by Israel or not. So to postulate and argument by an unverified claim is quite a bit of a circular argument. A Few sentences which claim that the ICT released documents which cannot even be located on the ICT website itself, is not a good support for the claim.

We can both agree that HAMAS was spear headed into popularity largely because of it's social provisions and grassroots relief work to it's own people. However, playing into Israeli hands? Again I assume this relies on the first premise of your argument. Israeli provision of services in Gaza pre-HAMAS prior to HAMAS was pretty much non-existant, and this is evident by the level of schools/ proliferated access to medical care and compensations that HAMAS give that weren't there before. Which schools, clinics or monetary reimbursments for deaths or imprisonment of Palestinians arrested by Israel. I think the only thing out of this that could attest to Israeli involvement in the creation of HAMAS is that their activities and schemes galvanized the leaders of HAMAS to create HAMAS. If by playing into Israeli hands, you mean they're a thorn in Israel's side and because of them they can't continually build more settlements, then I am perplexed by such a conclusion. Not even PA or PLO did such things when they had large sums of Eastern European money to support them. Hence we see Arafat with his dyed-blonde wife strolling Jerusalem in a Bentley, while settlements were built on the West Bank.

I'm no supporter of HAMAS, but imagine if the Taliban had the same sort of vision and strategy that HAMAS had, providing needed services, trying to ensure the rights and needs of the people are met. Imagine what legitimacy they''d hold? We'd see casualties of Imperialist Foot Soldiers in the thousands. But no, Taliban are just concerned with whether people are hearing music or having fist-length beards; and measuring Islam but such secondary concerns. I Blame deobandi schools for that, however we need to acknowledge merit honestly. HAMAS has some unmeritable aspects, like suicide attacks and targeting civilian areas, but we cannot deny that no Palestinians were brought to harm during such attacks and that their policy is to keep any military actions out of civilian areas of Palestinians. If this is playing into "Israel's Hands" then Israel is doing a terrible job of taking what isn't theirs.