Taliban killed 1,165 worshippers in past 10 years

[Toramana]

KARACHI – Lethal attacks by Taliban militants hit 54 Pakistani places of worship of various faiths in the past 10 years, killing 1,165 worshippers and injuring about 2,900, a recent report revealed.

The defiled holy places included mosques, churches, Sufi shrines, Shia processions and Imam Barghas, Ahmadi worship centres and missionary schools, a report compiled by Muhammad Nafees, a Karachi-based independent security analyst and researcher, shows.

The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and affiliated banned sectarian organisations like Jaish-e-Muhammad and Jundullah claimed responsibility in almost all cases. Most of the victims were women and children. Holy books of various faiths were burnt in many attacks.

The most recent bombing occurred January 25 at a police check post in Lahore, killing 13 people and injuring 70 others. The suicide bomber may have been trying to hit either the shrine of Sufi Data Darbar or a Muharram procession, as the explosion occurred between the two, media reported....

http://centralasiaonline.com/cocoon/.../31/feature-01

[Master Khan]

and US have killed millions!!!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

KARACHI – Lethal attacks by Taliban militants hit 54 Pakistani places of worship of various faiths in the past 10 years, killing 1,165 worshippers and injuring about 2,900, a recent report revealed.

The defiled holy places included mosques, churches, Sufi shrines, Shia processions and Imam Barghas, Ahmadi worship centres and missionary schools, a report compiled by Muhammad Nafees, a Karachi-based independent security analyst and researcher, shows.

The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and affiliated banned sectarian organisations like Jaish-e-Muhammad and Jundullah claimed responsibility in almost all cases. Most of the victims were women and children. Holy books of various faiths were burnt in many attacks.

The most recent bombing occurred January 25 at a police check post in Lahore, killing 13 people and injuring 70 others. The suicide bomber may have been trying to hit either the shrine of Sufi Data Darbar or a Muharram procession, as the explosion occurred between the two, media reported....

http://centralasiaonline.com/cocoon/.../31/feature-01

In various other threads, I can reproduce them for you, villagers have been told the likes of what you note here. Their general response is a very common sensical one which is simply: Well, they (the Taliban) may be killing people, but they came out of the woodwork after the NATO forces occupied us. This, per Matthew Hoh's studies appears to be true... each time we load an area with US forces, attacks that are inadvertantly lethal to civilians go right up. I posted these quotes under the responses to that fellow Badabung when he noted the Death of Dr. Massoud Yama was due to Taliban activities.

[randolph85]

In various other threads, I can reproduce them for you, villagers have been told the likes of what you note here. Their general response is a very common sensical one which is simply: Well, they (the Taliban) may be killing people, but they came out of the woodwork after the NATO forces occupied us. This, per Matthew Hoh's studies appears to be true... each time we load an area with US forces, attacks that are inadvertantly lethal to civilians go right up. I posted these quotes under the responses to that fellow Badabung when he noted the Death of Dr. Massoud Yama was due to Taliban activities.

except these are masjids in pakistan.

[randolph85]

the reason i dont criticize americans/nato like i do the taliban is because i dont expect the foreigners to respect the lives of afghans, our culture, and religion. these foreigners care more about their ipods than they do afghan lives and thats to be expected. the taliban on the other hand, the people who say they are fighting for islam and for afghans....when they carelessly kill people i will criticize them until i am dead.

i get that in war innocents will die, a bomb meant for a foreigner might also kill civilians. this is to be expected with crude weapons and desperate methods. but when a bomb is placed in a busy area where they know civilians will die, THERE IS NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER. when a bomb is placed in a masjid and kills dozens of worshippers because the ttp wanted to kill some police captain or something, or send a message to a tribe doing business with the govt, there is a special place in hell for **** like that.

the sahaba were instructed to go to great lengths to make sure no harm came to even the civilians of the kuffir nations, now we have these so called muslims blowing up masjids and justifying it somehow in their sick minds.

[khushal]

except these are masjids in pakistan.

It doesnt matter, the unsuccessfull occupation of afghanistan is destablizing the whole region. War naturally extreminizes the population. This suicide bombing didnt exist in afghanistan or pakistan or Iraq unitl the americans came with their blackwater fitna contractors. It didnt exist in lebonon or Israel until the americans first arrived their either.

[randolph85]

It doesnt matter, the unsuccessfull occupation of afghanistan is destablizing the whole region. War naturally extreminizes the population. This suicide bombing didnt exist in afghanistan or pakistan or Iraq unitl the americans came with their blackwater fitna contractors. It didnt exist in lebonon or Israel until the americans first arrived their either.

of course it matters. muslims have a high standard to maintain, within everyday life and when it comes to jihad. hezbollah and hamas dont blow their own people up. many of the groups affiliated with suicide bombings in pakistan used to be used by the isi in kashmir. shifting blame on the foreigners for the senseless acts of the opposition is a cop out, personal responsibility is a hallmark of islam.

[khushal]

of course it matters. muslims have a high standard to maintain, within everyday life and when it comes to jihad. hezbollah and hamas dont blow their own people up. many of the groups affiliated with suicide bombings in pakistan used to be used by the isi in kashmir. shifting blame on the foreigners for the senseless acts of the opposition is a cop out, personal responsibility is a hallmark of islam.

Hamas and Hezbolah target Israeli civilians all the time. The aim is to make the Israeli civilians feel as though their government dont have the ability to protect them. The Taliban target afghan and paksitani civilians. The aim their is to make the civilians feel as though their government can't protect them. Making the government look weak and ineffective demoralizes the population. demoralizing the muslim population is the aim of the kufar.

Who organized the taliban, who organized hezbolah and hamas. These are not muslim organizations that fight for muslim rights. they actually serve the interests of those that undermine the eventual unity of the muslim ummah.

[randolph85]

Hamas and Hezbolah target Israeli civilians all the time. The aim is to make the Israeli civilians feel as though their government dont have the ability to protect them. The Taliban target afghan and paksitani civilians. The aim their is to make the civilians feel as though their government can't protect them. Making the government look weak and ineffective demoralizes the population. demoralizing the muslim population is the aim of the kufar.

Who organized the taliban, who organized hezbolah and hamas. These are not muslim organizations that fight for muslim rights. they actually serve the interests of those that undermine the eventual unity of the muslim ummah.

while i dont advocate targeting civilians, the pali and leb groups never targeted their own people. unlike the taliban and ttp, hamas and hezbollah answer to public opinion and would not exist in their current structures if people didnt support them. these groups took the concept of democracy which was pushed by their western enemies and made fools of the west by participating and being elected to positions of power by their own people.

the PA has been negotiating with israel since the early 90s and have gotten nowhere, while hundreds of thousands of new settlers move into the west bank. hamas drove out the settlers from gaza, hezbollah drove out the american military from their capital and israel from southern lebanon, this was without blowing up their own people.

these groups like hamas, hezbollah, taliban are all created by grassroots movements to counter the evil in their societies and counter the wrong which created the situation in which their creation was necessary. its what they evolve to and what they do with the power that they gain which matters.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Randolph is completely right in his critique of the Taliban. It's completely irrational and counter productive to use tactics which would put your own civilians at harms way and more over consequently harm your own civilians to target an enemy/hostile element. The targeting of civilian collaborators is another contentious issue, but the general Prophetic Method was that he only targeted collaborators and/or potential threats by cogent and clean assasinations, often done late at night or in distance from any potential harm which may befall a bystander or after he had successfully removed the main brunt of the hostile forces. Such individuals therefore must be systematically dealt with in a stable and practical manner. Human life, especially Muslim lives are sacred, taking such things in neglect, is a moral crime which contradicts Islaam. Only the true aggressors should be taken into account, the Essence of Justice requires that everyone should be examined carefully and separately to determine their definitive guilt. To do otherwise would just be neglect, laziness and Injustice; and those who are Unjust thereby become aggressors themselves. This is why the Taliban Movement are a corrupt and Hostile organization to Afghan themselves. This is not the same as legitimate fighters who want to repel Imperial occupation. If the Taliban movement and leadership were sincere in their agenda, they would never even consider applying such tactics under any circumstance. No excuse can be levied in favor of it. None.


I don't agree with Randolph in so much as the NATO/Imperial Alliance are beyond critique or should be critiqued less harshly; not because they they're obligated to believe it's their duty to consider the lives of Afghans or Muslims in general, but because such instances should be highlighted to demonstrate the corrupt and disingenuous motives they display so other Muslims do not wrongly believe they're "liberating" them. They need to be critiqued equally harshly if not more so so that the crimes they commit are addressed and that irregardless of the Taliban's own crimes, should inspire populace to be less inclined to collaborate or be deceived by them.

HAMAS/Hizbollah albeit are generally speaking committing crimes against civilians; they have a certain degree of an excuse which allows them leeway and Islamic legitimacy. The civilians they target are a contingence of an occupying force who indulge in their militaries aggressions and participate in their colonizing scheme. This brings to question as to whether they're actually deemed as civilians or an aggressive contingent. I'm of the opinion that any non-official participant is civilian. If they are legitimately guilty of collaboration, they can be dealt with later when the main military/hostile forces are neutralized and a tribunal can be held as to what degree of guilt they had in their role of

[Shehbaz Khan]

and US have killed millions!!!

They don't kill you in the name of religion.

[khushal]

these groups like hamas, hezbollah, taliban are all created by grassroots movements to counter the evil in their societies and counter the wrong which created the situation in which their creation was necessary. its what they evolve to and what they do with the power that they gain which matters.

First you have to know where these groups came from.The palistinians were united under one leadership and Israels aim was to create two leaderships to devide them and have them use their energy quarreling with each other. The PLO had huge legitimacy in the international community and Israels viewed this as their biggest threat unless they destroy that legitimacy and today they are nothing. Hamas was first funded by the Israeli masod to counter Arafats PLO. Hezbolah was first created and funded by Israel to counter the PLO in Lebenon. Under Hezbolah the palistinians could never return to lebenon and that was the aim. . The PLO was also very powerfull in Jordan, Israel destroyed them there to with the help of Pakistani Zia al Haq. Israel doesnt want Gaza, they want the west bank and this weak PLO is there and they are losing ground everyday. Israel doesnt want lebonon, they want hezbolah there to create this illusion to the international community that they are surrounded by extremist and irrational enemies that target civilians, enemies that they themselves intentionally created. These enemies are weak, they are no threat to Israel whatsoever but an asset to Israel. To have the backing of the international community is priceless and they have figured out a way to have it at a very cheap price.

Randolph and schimcter, I could come to your house and imprison your whole family in a little room, you could yell and scream your lungs out but as long as I can convice the neighborhood that you are a threat to me and the whole neighborhood, they will do nothing to free you but help me keep you inprisoned.

The Afghan population was intentionally exteminized by the CIA where the books that were taught in the Madrasas in the refugee camps were actually printed in the USA. The CIA could have organized suicide bombing squads back in the 80's but it didnt serve their interests at the time. The CIA could have printed social science books and proper history books and be taught in the madrasas but that would not serve their interests. To have the Afghan Nation rise up with educated people is not and never will be in their interests because they know that educated people are hard to control. The people that support and organize suicide tactics like the quetta shura and the Haqani's are covertly funded by the CIA. They serve the CIA interests not the Afghan Peoples interests. The American military has the power and ability to go into north waziristan and Questta to dismantle the questta shura and the Haqanis but why do it when they are your assets. .
Randolph and Schmicter, you could criticize the Taliban for employing suicide tactics and you rightfully should but they will not stop unless you criticize the CIA for funding such groups. Many resistence groups are against this practice in afghanistan but there are certain elements in the resistence that employ these tactics that are funded by the CIA.

Once again I would like to say that the unsuccessfull NATO occupation of Afghanistan is directly unstabilizing the whole region.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I do criticize the CIA in numerous references and posts, condemning the Taliban doesn't mean reaching fro the CIA card in every post. Everything has to be detailed in context.

I'm fully aware of what the CIA did, and what the CIA agenda was, this emphasize of an unnuanced and impulse driven approach negligent of the checks and balances and protocals enshrined in Islamic Law is precisely what Islam sought to rectify.

I fully agree there are many resistance groups , often labeled Taliban although not actually being Taliban, who deplore such tactics, and I agree that such tactics may in fact be a CIA smokescreen to discredit anti Imperial resistance. I do however must regardless oppose the Taliban, whether this is fully factual or not for embracing these tactics.

I would like more information on the Mossad/HAMAS liason. I don't find any meritable data regarding it. It seems however PLO and HAMAS did not have significant rife until Mahmoud Abbas, who was in fact supported by the Israeli Establishment, came into the helm. PLO however is a secular group and may not win favor with HAMAS supporters who are tied to their Islamic Resistance rather than so much of Palestinian National Resistance factor.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Agreed, but often there is a debate of what constitutes "Innocence"/

[khushal]

Shmicter, sorry Scimitar
Here you go.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00164.html