A Roadmap for Pashtunistan

[randolph85]

So you want KP and Balochistan so that it economically benefit Afghanistan. And you are not interested in FATA as it is barren mountainous area......at least Pakistan is not throwing off FATA, tribals are every where in Pakistan for jobs and other economic opportunities, you can guess they would not join Afghanistan.......a country with terrain like FATA.
As I have already stated that Afghans want 30 million Pashtuns of Pakistan to subdue powerful minorities like tajiks while wish for increase in area of country, which is natural.

afghans dont need pakistani pashtuns to subdue minority power in afghanistan. minority power was initially a result of northern alliance cooperation with america, this power has dwindled down considerably in the last 9-10 years, as most of these former powerful political men are now merely powerful real estate owners. the withdrawal of america will further cement pashtun political power, though it is not my wish to see minorities left out but rather a political balance based on %'s on a fair basis.

pakistan holds on to territory out of pride, if they could get rid of the pashtun tribals while saving face they would do so in a second. its the same thing with bangladesh, they disliked the people but wanted to keep the land out of prestige. afghanistan is in no situation to take in any more people than it already has, thats why having fata as part of afghanistan right now would be pointless. when we are in an economic and social situation when a merger helps both sides then we will explore that option. doing so right now out of pride is silly and detremental.

[Michin Khel]

Economically…the entity known as "Pakistan" has a monopoly over:

1) granting trade access routes from the port at Karachi to Pashtonistan,

2) trade destined for Afghanistan and from Afghanistan

3) trade from the Central Asian states and to the Central Asian states. By default they have to work through Russia at present.

This monopoly of control gives Pakistan an economic and political lever over the landlocked states of Central Asia, including Afghanistan.

Thus an independent state of Pashtonistan/Balouchistan with a port at Gwadar provides a competitive trade port alternative to Karachi. Thereafter the Paki monopoly is busted.

I dont think Baloch are interested in joining Pashtun state, though they are getting help from afghanistan against Pakistan, so they would be just thankful for help nothing else. I have noticed that most of Afghans have inferiority complex of being landlocked.

[randolph85]

don't confuse inferiority complex with economic burden.

[fzpz]

Luffy it's the way it's ever been. Even before the crazy concoction that is the current entity of afghanistan, people from the barren lands raided for greener pastures and women. It's kind of the reason why northern Pakistan is even muslim. Now they're dreaming about 'ocean access' as if they don't have that already through the agreements with Pakistan, which Pakistan has always honored. The inferiority complex leads them to believe 'ocean access' as a panacea to all the problems (ofcourse after they 'disintegrate' others and magically come up with the solutions to all their internal problems - it's very lazy thinking). They're going to make things up in their head to make themselves feel better about themselves and as a consequence forget about their pitafull situation by seeing only the things they want to see. Fascist policies to the core. A product of the afghanistani-communist-nationalist policies of Daud, although even he realized his grave "mistakes" (read daydreaming).

[Toramana]

the only realistic idea of a merger would be between fata and afg. kp is too ingrained into pakistan for there to be a split unless the state just collapses and afghanistan is stable enough politically and economically to look good to kp for a merger.

though having fata as part of afg would be pretty much pointless as its just more people, more security problems, and the land has no economic benefit.

although having balochistan join afg would be a far greater benefit than fata or kp.

Yours as well as Luffy's opposition as only nominal-Pashtuns (one being Siraiki, the other Dari-Khwan) to Pashtun unification is understandable---one is more concerned with the status of the minorities in Afghanistan...the other is more concerned with the integrity of a Punjabized Pakistan...

[Alchemist]

Quebec is a very different situation than Pashtunkhwa. Canada had to make huge compromises and changes to keep Quebec within Canada. Pakistan is deteriorating and it is an outcome we are discussing. Pakistan has not made the same changes in their policy to even be compared to Quebec.

And the fact that ANP and PPP are in a political alliance does not mean they are supporting one another entirely, it is part and parcel of parliamentary politics.

you've been looking forward to pakistan's demise for 40 years now...and nothing seems to have changed.

Just look at how many times Afghanistan collapsed...

[BLS_1919v2.0]

you've been looking forward to pakistan's demise for 40 years now...and nothing seems to have changed.

Just look at how many times Afghanistan collapsed...

Lolzz I am barely half of 40 years old and you have brought that forward. BTW someone asked Naseerullah Babar that question as well, he replied in the same way. The funny thing is that everything has changed there. Things are spiraling downwards. Will it collapse? Allah u Aalim. Will the collapse benefit Pashtuns? I definitely believe so.

[randolph85]

Yours as well as Luffy's opposition as only nominal-Pashtuns (one being Siraiki, the other Dari-Khwan) to Pashtun unification is understandable---one is more concerned with the status of the minorities in Afghanistan...the other is more concerned with the integrity of a Punjabized Pakistan...

being concerned with the status of fellow muslim countrymen is not an opposition to pashtun unification. at this point in time, unification would have no benefits at all for pashtuns. its like when nationalists were more concerned about the name of the nwfp than the actual economic and social conditions of the people. well the name changed, the place is still a mess. u are more concerned with ego than reality.

[Azmal]

I dont think Baloch are interested in joining Pashtun state, though they are getting help from afghanistan against Pakistan, so they would be just thankful for help nothing else. I have noticed that most of Afghans have inferiority complex of being landlocked.

Afghanistan status as landlocked was as result of punishment for resisting imperialist British just as the theft of Afghan land was reward to mercenaries of the British Raj(successor of Angreez for Afghans and Pashtons).
From Pashton prospective and in simple economics term, the Durrand line not only divided Pashtonistan from Afghanistan but has effectively divided the infrastructure and resources of Afghans nation on both side. Therefore made it become inefficient and enters into what’s called a diseconomy of scale which creates the need to compensate for the deficiencies, often through “illegal” activities…example: Smuggling of good and drugs by Pashtonistan’s Pashtons which robs Pakistan economy of hundreds of million of dollars annually. Fact is in Pashtonistan and Baluchistan, whatever the locals in the region produce is contributed to Punjab because they have a greater population…which puts the Pashtonistan region into greater diseconomy of scale because there is a lack of synergy. A good example of this lack of synergy is the production of electricity in Pashtonistan…..most Pashtons in Pakistan do not get sufficient electricity despite the fact that production effects their infrastructure and environment. In other words Pashtons are paying more for the “few resources” while these facilities are based on Pashton lands which affect the surroundings which means it hurts Pashtons. Moreover Pashtonistan gets paid pennies for production of electricity and infrastructural use which goes to supply and accommodate Punjab.( WAPDA refused to pay up to $5 billion it owed Pashtonistan … few years ago, WAPDA agreed to pay just $ 900 million while even that to has not be paid so far.)
All these problems can change if we redirect and reassess the allocations of local infrastructure and resources. The only way to rectify these issues is to reunite Pashtonistan with Afghanistan and reallocate everything this way ALL the poverty you see in both Afghanistan and Pashtonsitan will become greatly eliminated.

[Toramana]

you've been looking forward to pakistan's demise for 40 years now...and nothing seems to have changed.

Just look at how many times Afghanistan collapsed...

In 1971, Pakistan broke into two---so the negation of the rationale for a state based on religion only...The remaining Pakistan is a much weakened state that it was in 1971.

Moreover, Pakistan has solved not a single issue which it had initially been conceived for--- take the communal issue---the antagonism between Hindu Indians and Muslim Indians is as ---rather more---intense as it was before partition---Similarly, ethnic problems Sindhis-Mahajars, Pashtun-Mahajars, Karachi Problem, Baluch problem, terrorism, Afghanistan instablity, Kashmir, Islamist extremism in Central Asia, etc. are the problems that are the direct consequence Pakistan's un-natural existence.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Yours as well as Luffy's opposition as only nominal-Pashtuns (one being Siraiki, the other Dari-Khwan) to Pashtun unification is understandable---one is more concerned with the status of the minorities in Afghanistan...the other is more concerned with the integrity of a Punjabized Pakistan...

Description of Genetic Fallacy

A Genetic Fallacy is a line of "reasoning" in which a perceived defect in the origin of a claim or thing is taken to be evidence that discredits the claim or thing itself. It is also a line of reasoning in which the origin of a claim or thing is taken to be evidence for the claim or thing. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

[ScimitarXEdge]

]Afghanistan status as landlocked was as result of punishment for resisting imperialist British just as the theft of Afghan land was reward to mercenaries of the British Raj(successor of Angreez for Afghans and Pashtons)[/B].
From Pashton prospective and in simple economics term, the Durrand line not only divided Pashtonistan from Afghanistan but has effectively divided the infrastructure and resources of Afghans nation on both side. Therefore made it become inefficient and enters into what’s called a diseconomy of scale which creates the need to compensate for the deficiencies, often through “illegal” activities…example: Smuggling of good and drugs by Pashtonistan’s Pashtons which robs Pakistan economy of hundreds of million of dollars annually. Fact is in Pashtonistan and Baluchistan, whatever the locals in the region produce is contributed to Punjab because they have a greater population…which puts the Pashtonistan region into greater diseconomy of scale because there is a lack of synergy. A good example of this lack of synergy is the production of electricity in Pashtonistan…..most Pashtons in Pakistan do not get sufficient electricity despite the fact that production effects their infrastructure and environment. In other words Pashtons are paying more for the “few resources” while these facilities are based on Pashton lands which affect the surroundings which means it hurts Pashtons. Moreover Pashtonistan gets paid pennies for production of electricity and infrastructural use which goes to supply and accommodate Punjab.( WAPDA refused to pay up to $5 billion it owed Pashtonistan … few years ago, WAPDA agreed to pay just $ 900 million while even that to has not be paid so far.)
All these problems can change if we redirect and reassess the allocations of local infrastructure and resources. The only way to rectify these issues is to reunite Pashtonistan with Afghanistan and reallocate everything this way ALL the poverty you see in both Afghanistan and Pashtonsitan will become greatly eliminated.

as well as incompetence of Afghanistan's Royalty to have a spine and resist the British with all their might and instead bowing to whatever whim the British had in store.

[ScimitarXEdge]

being concerned with the status of fellow muslim countrymen is not an opposition to pashtun unification. at this point in time, unification would have no benefits at all for pashtuns. its like when nationalists were more concerned about the name of the nwfp than the actual economic and social conditions of the people. well the name changed, the place is still a mess. u are more concerned with ego than reality.

let's not forget about how people who waved the banner of Nationalism felt no qualms about seeing people who were more authentic to the values and features of being Pure Pakhtoon in their lifestyle were being slaughtered by a Foreign Military while they tauted Nationalist slogans,scoffed the British all the while wanting so called "social reforms" which would impose British social models on Afghans.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel; these people aren't really sincere about bettering Pakhtoons or anyone else, it's just a disguise to hide behind. Divide and Rule.

[Toramana]

Description of Genetic Fallacy

A Genetic Fallacy is a line of "reasoning" in which a perceived defect in the origin of a claim or thing is taken to be evidence that discredits the claim or thing itself. It is also a line of reasoning in which the origin of a claim or thing is taken to be evidence for the claim or thing. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

Just like water, soil, sand, etc. ecology, this water, river, mountain, desert, etc. logic can be a figment of any one's imagination...Whenever, a solution fails to yeild the desired results, it is considered to be ineffective...

It isn't good giving judgement based on superficial knowledge of things...

[ScimitarXEdge]

Just like water, soil, sand, etc. ecology, this water, river, mountain, desert, etc. logic can be a figment of any one's imagination...Whenever, a solution fails to yeild the desired results, it is considered to be ineffective...

It isn't good giving judgement based on superficial knowledge of things...

Then you agree discrediting someone's argument based on their heritage demonstrates extremely superficial knowledge and reflective of gross ignorance?

Pardon me; I just wanted to show the world the intellectual bankruptcy of current European Agents in their use of logical fallacies.