Why do Afghani Pashtuns hate Pakistan?

[ScimitarXEdge]

^^he grew up in the west, like other Pashtuns. No harm in that, and plus with easy access to cable north american sayings are common now.

I know he has, but he poses as if he was raised in the East and that he speaks from credible first hand experience.

there's no saying in North America called "drink more Koolaid" or "stop drinking Koolaid".

He claimed he was raised in poor rural conditions, this guy is just keen on double talk.

[graveyardofempires]

like mazloom said:

"Loy Afghanistan is just another ambitious campaign by those former ruling Tribes of Afghanistan to once more rule over Pashtuns but favour their own tribal lineage."

The former head leading tribes are simple 'nobodys' now, we pashtuns are equal, they cannot handle this, they need a heirarchy system to look down on people..you see and meet people saying "wer not just normal pashtuns we are from so and so lineage" "my great great grandfather was xyz" and im like "dude, who gives a flying damn"

i personaly think all this being busy with tribal idetity is waste of time.
its not bad for study purposes but if people think the are somehow royal above other tribes or have more to say than i dont believe in that sort of talk.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I know he has, but he poses as if he was raised in the East and that he speaks from credible first hand experience.

there's no saying in North America called "drink more Koolaid" or "stop drinking Koolaid".

He claimed he was raised in poor rural conditions, this guy is just keen on double talk.

I can't go into people's personal lives, if he says it, we will give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't btw agree with what he is saying (as I have mentioned earlier).

[ScimitarXEdge]

I can't go into people's personal lives, if he says it, we will give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't btw agree with what he is saying (as I have mentioned earlier).

That's ok I'm not accusing you of trying to defend him

and I'm also not trying to pry into his private life; I am only going by what he says regarding himself. Often times in posts he will try to argue from a platform of "I live in Pashtunkhwah and you don't" and use all these redneck styled "well if you're really about what you say then why don't you go back East".

Everyone should pay mind to these inconsistencies because these are FBI and CIA Entrapment tactics.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Mazloum

The reason that Afghans are not nationalistic has little to do with Pakistan itself but the history of the Pashtoon peoples. Afghans lack of interest in Pashtoon nationalism has to do with the fact that Afghans are people of Nature, Nature has no National identity; the Pashtoon culture is fundamentally nomadic, very few Afghans ever rose out of that for some ambitious Nation Building Agenda; when we did try for it we were mired by our own bravado and internal rife, cousins struggling to sabotage other cousins. All of it is in our historical chronicles if you read about the Barakzai and Sadozai Khans. Sure we can say only a minority of Pashtoons are nomadic these days, but that is the hearth of Pashtoon culture; even the sedentary Pashtoon "keliwal" more a connection to their ancestral legacy rather than such high minded Europeanized notions of Nationalism. That doesn't mean that the Pashtoon doesn't identify with a land, but that the idea of a "Pashtoon Land" is more liquid and of deeper Spiritual Significance than a "Pashtoon Nation".

Islam in what is called Pakistan, is whether you'd like to admit it or not a phenomena catalyzed by Afghans; not the other way around. It was the Muslim rulers of Afghanistan that established within what would eventually become Pakistan a permanent foothold of a cultural entity, whether it was by Abdali, Lodhi or Sher Shah Souri. Even the modern call for Global Muslim Unity or restoring the Khilafah is not something that was manufactured by Pakistan to exploit Afghans but rather was something established by the Afghan thinker Sayyid Jamaluddin Al-Afghani; that is if you consider Sayyids as real Afghans of course;

The problem with Nationalism is that it's apart of an Imperialist Divide and Rule Scheme; Pakistani Nationalism is no different as the idea of a "Republic" has no basis in Islam no matter how many times you type "Islamic REPUBLIC of Pakistan". Just because the British found a way of exploiting Islamic vocabulary to ratify Pakistan does not make Pakistan Islamic or representative of Islam. Indeed that aspect of Divide and Rule was embodied by Pakistan and reflected in it's most perverse form by what had happened in Bengal.

When an Afghan or Pashtoon listens to a person who is not Pashtoon giving a Khutbah, it is not because they're "bowing to Punjabis"; it is because not every arena is somehow automatically a venue for racial and ethnic hegemony; only people who are insecure and suffer an inferiority complex perceive it as so. It is not a few verses of the Qur'an or a Khutbah that makes people join Pakistan; rather it is people who are not bound by these ideas of man made boundaries of Nationalism where they can look past peoples ethnicity and race and identify with people on a deeper level rather than shallow racial and/or ethnic insecurities.

Just like when Lahoris go to the Mazhar of Sayyid Ali Houjwari, they're not bowing to "Tajiks or Persians"; One must make a separation between Racial and Ethnic background of a Person and Racial/Ethnic Movements and/or Agendas of Governments.

This game of racial/ethnic politics too is an Imperialist Design and has always been whether in Rwanda by the Belgians using the Hutus and Tutsis, or Iraq with America using Arabs and Kurds or now in Pakistan and Afghanistan, using Hazarah, Tajik, Pashtoon, Punjabi and the gamut. This is the case now even with the American backed Karzai Government (which you cheered on as "good work America"..)


Pashtunkhwah and Pashtunistan and Loy Afghanistan aren't going to be a reality; not because there's some flaw in the Afghans or Pashtoons or because the Pashtoons are misguided or care about trivial superficial things; it's because the people who have come and represented the Banner of Pashtoon Nationalism have tarnished its reputation in front of Both Pashtoon and Non-Pashtoon alike. They allowed Soviets free reign in Afghanistan all the while saying "Pashtunistan Tal Di Wi!!!"; trespassing every value and standard and nurturing every disgrace to the common Afghan man; and this was before any Invasion in 1978 despite what rhetoric you're reading off of Zbignew Brezenski. Soviets only invaded because they saw Afghanistan as THEIR TERRITORY. How would they get such a notion if it wasn't for Daud Khan and PDA courting such notions? Hazaras and Tajiks oppose Pashtoons not because they hate Pashtoons but because those handful of so called "Pashtoon Nationalists" used the Pashtoon name and fell into the Imperialist Scheme of Divide and Rule, started bullying and oppressing the minorities the same way Punjabis had done in Pakistan. They fear the same thing could happen once more.

Massoud didn't turn against Pakistan because he hated Punjab, or realized he was being used; he was against Pakistan because his Rival Mujahid, Gulbuddin Hektmatyar was getting more money than he was. the Jamiat-e-Islami party which has sway over large swaths of the Northern Alliance is a direct offshoot of Jamat-e-Islami. Burhanuddin Rabbani was closely allied with Mawdudi. Burhanuddin and Massoud are not representatives of Tajiks either. They did as much harm to them as they did to anyone else.

It wasn't CIA/America who "lured' Russia in; Soviets already had their dirty paws in Afghanistan under the pretext of the PDA; they only militarily invaded when they felt what they saw as their property being transgressed upon by American/CIA designs. Because they saw it was their property, the lives of 1.5 Million Afghans were sacrificed with the blessing and servitude of the so called Nationalist Parties. And the Americans who only was competing with the Soviets for their own Imperial design just saw it as collateral damage. The problem stemmed from the imperial schemes of both Nations, not Afghans "willingly" siding with CIA. And Najibullah wasn't killed because Pakistani "Bhai Jaans" ordered his death; it was because he was the leader of KHaD who under the guise of Nationalism, went around killing bearded Pashtoon men. and turned a blind eye when Afghan women were stripped naked and urinated on to "scare" Afghans into not fighting them, many of whom were the fathers of those men who hung Najib. Did the the Pakistanis use it to their advantage? Yes and no doubt Taliban eventually became stooges of Pakistan's agenda but Pakistan in itself is a tool of imperialist agenda and that Imperialist Agenda has sent it's foot soldiers into Afghanistan and set up shop there. It's all the same.


The point being maybe if people stopped focusing on their Racial/Ethnic insecurities; and started focusing on Justice and Truth, then perhaps you wouldn't be falling into these Divide and Rule schemes.

[Manzareh]

^ what are talking about, nobody said anything abourt punjabwali your the first person that mentioned it.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^nu che Afghan shu nu kha khabaraa daa. You should support it.

[MazloomYarMasud]

This is the thing if Pakistan was ever sincere about the fight on terror then it would benefit the Pashtun people as we would be cleansed of this Arabised Jihadi Ideologies that has even brainwashed Pashtun women to blow themselves up(Recently Attack on Food programme in Bajaur).

Arabs from Iraq/Arab lands have landed in Afghanistan a very long time ago, they have told supporters that even if Civilians are killed in Suicide attacks they should not worry as they will be sent straight to paradise ignoring the fact that children will be mother and fatherless and how would such victims survive in such poverty?.

Pakistan if sincere which is not and never was, should have fenced the border when America Attacked and trapped the Jihadis and got them all eliminated and finished off, but Pakistan did the opposite and shifted them to Waziristan and other border regions.

If the border was fenced than the disease of Jihadists Militancy would have been pushed to the America side where it would have been finished off for good.

Do not take my comment as Pro American, I know the dirty role America took with ISI in destroying our region, most of the non sense Alqaeda, Punjabi Taliban, Afghan Taliban and the TTP was actually produced at the University of Nebraska, please read the ABC's of Jihad.

America was sending books of JIhadist Material to Afghan Orphan Camps in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab to make them fight Soviets.

However, we as Pashtuns need to work with such powers and prevent these Arabised Terrorist Bigots from taking control of our region, if we do not oppose such people then expect your families to stand in 3 mile lines just for one biscuit and a cup of chai.

The best thing Mushraff did was Flatten Lal Masjid and he exposed the Mullah as a Lip stick wearing high heel in Burqa terrorist and coward.

Sadly, the Jihadist elements in Pakistan has rebuilt the Terrorist Factory called Lal Masjid and to this day the Jihadis there are trained very much openly.

Mushraff should have sent all these Mullahs to the Gulags with their Harems.

Kind Regards

[Azmal]

Dear Mazarey

You are right.

Pushto was only recognised as the Official language of Afghanistan a few decades ago of its 300 or so years of history.

You really need to find something new to say. You sound like a drunk parrot. 1936 is not few decades ago.

Do not worry about Afghanistan taking Pakhtunkhwa away from Pakistan. Its never ever going to Happen. It only takes a few passages from the Quran and a emotional Kutbah by Pakistan and there you go, Afghans such as Pashtuns will be ready to unite with Pakistan in the name of Religion.

Are you against Quran?

Do not take offence to this REAL FACT, majority of Afghans such as Pashtuns despise Nationalism. Pakistan is very much in control of Afghanistan and especially Pashtuns, Tajiks were the first to be used but they realised they are being used by Pakistan and that resulted in Ahmad Shah Masood burning down the Pakistani Embassy in Kabul.
Pashtuns in Afghanistan are showing "Zero" attempts to reclaim Pakhtunkhwa as their ambitions are much more bigger i.e global khalifate, Islamic state(Taliban).
every resistance group in Afghanistan is highly influenced by Pakistan and it only takes a few arrests and a cut of supplies and the Afghan Taliban can not function or fight correctly.

Pakistan is very much under-estimated. In Pakhtunkhwa there is not a single Pashtun Nationalist Party who has a policy of Returning to Afghanistan, they speak of Pashtun Unity but they happily receive their Pension from the "Government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan".

Plus the tablighi Jamaat which is another organisation which is highly influenced by the Pakistan Army and its Generals has a huge following among pashtuns, if one visits their Tabligh in Raiwand you will see Pashtuns from Quetta, Waziristan up to Peshawer in the 1000's listening to Punjabi Mullahs.

Afghans themselves choose to align themselves with CIA/ISI and lured the Soviets in. They slaughtered their own president being Najibullah and even sliced his testicles off and started hugging their "Bhai Jaans from Pakistan".

There is no movement in Afghanistan that is working to Unite Pashtuns on the contexts of Abolishing the Durrand line, Uniting all tribes, working for the betterment of the Pashtun people and the modernisation of the land.

So those in the west, do not get your hopes up too much. Pashtuns in Pakistan and even those from Afghanistan are very much happy to live and work in Pakistan even they are discriminated against, I see absolutely nothing done against it by Pashtuns, maybe a few Protests by Pmap(only when their members are harmed) but on the other hand I have seen myself Pashtuns to be too much forgiving when it comes to economical issues.

Another aspect most here have ignored is the FACT that even if Pakhtunkhwa joins Afghanistan, there will be total civil war, Tajiks and Hazaras WILL NEVER ACCEPT another 10 or 20 million Pashtuns and It will not take long before blood shed happens, plus its not a reasonable nor a good idea to waste time fighting them.

Kind Regards

Drunken parrot spamming this board.

[Michin Khel]

[QUOTE=Admin Khan;281007]Manzareh, as I promised, here is my source that Pashtuns are 63-65 percent of the Afghan population.[/QOUTE]
Sorry dear those who have forgeton pashto and are now dari, cant be counted as pashtuns. Pashtuns are only 42% of afghanistan population.

[Manzareh]

^ Like i told Jasmine, even if it is 60% for arguements sake, pashtuns are the majority by a petty 10%??..LOL..if you check the demographics on countries you will find that a 40% foreign population will never work, and the 60% can not say 'its my country' as there are too many 'outsiders'..to make it worse its not a country were the 40% population is dispursed within the pashtun 60% (were pashtun influence will be alpha) they have there own CLEAR dense regions you try going into the depths of a persian area and tell them its a 'pashtun country' it is not.

you have your sources admin, here is another one over

"14 million Dari Persian speakers in Afghanistan (50% of the population according to CIA World FactBook & Britannica)"

[graveyardofempires]

^ Like i told Jasmine, even if it is 60% for arguements sake, pashtuns are the majority by a petty 10%??..LOL..if you check the demographics on countries you will find that a 40% foreign population will never work, and the 60% can not say 'its my country' as there are too many 'outsiders'..to make it worse its not a country were the 40% population is dispursed within the pashtun 60% (were pashtun influence will be alpha) they have there own CLEAR dense regions you try going into the depths of a persian area and tell them its a 'pashtun country' it is not.

you have your sources admin, here is another one over

"14 million Dari Persian speakers in Afghanistan (50% of the population according to CIA World FactBook & Britannica)"

cia factbook britanica nuff said

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^ Like i told Jasmine, even if it is 60% for arguements sake, pashtuns are the majority by a petty 10%??..LOL..if you check the demographics on countries you will find that a 40% foreign population will never work, and the 60% can not say 'its my country' as there are too many 'outsiders'..to make it worse its not a country were the 40% population is dispursed within the pashtun 60% (were pashtun influence will be alpha) they have there own CLEAR dense regions you try going into the depths of a persian area and tell them its a 'pashtun country' it is not.

you have your sources admin, here is another one over

"14 million Dari Persian speakers in Afghanistan (50% of the population according to CIA World FactBook & Britannica)"

Manzareh why don't you give the Pashtuns your alternative. Where will your "pure state" begin and end? Even in my native Shangla, despite the population being overwhelmingly Yousafzai Pashtun/Afghan, we have minorities. Pure states don't exist in our backyard. And the issue of demographics of Afghanistan/Pashtunkhwa have been discussed. You must be living in some idealistic world. 60 % is a sensible figure and joined with Pashtunkhwa it makes it a good 80 % (if not more).

P.S. Luffy so half or more of the Niazai qaam are no longer Pashtuns right?

[Michin Khel]

Manzareh why don't you give the Pashtuns your alternative. Where will your "pure state" begin and end? Even in my native Shangla, despite the population being overwhelmingly Yousafzai Pashtun/Afghan, we have minorities. Pure states don't exist in our backyard. And the issue of demographics of Afghanistan/Pashtunkhwa have been discussed. You must be living in some idealistic world. 60 % is a sensible figure and joined with Pashtunkhwa it makes it a good 80 % (if not more).

P.S. Luffy so half or more of the Niazai qaam are no longer Pashtuns right?

Yes those niazis who speak seraiki are no longer pashtuns , same is case with jadoons of hazara....This was also your point of view on CK

[randolph85]

Its simple. Pakistan was created by the British similar to how Israel was created, not to mention it was created at the same time. Both Israel and Pakistan were created on the basis of religious yet lead by secularists. Divide and conquer, my friends.

Pakistan since its birth has had an inferiority complex to India. India having an inferiority complex to the Anglos. Its funny really.