Why do Afghani Pashtuns hate Pakistan?

[Manzareh]

can you afghans not see what the non pashtun afghans say about you?? they call you Pigtoons, Nomadic Farm animals, Uneducated savages, Tribal barbarians..these are the people your happy to name your country with. you carry on fooling yourselfs and one day it will hit you in your faces. salaam

[Khidr]

Dear Khdir,

like I said before, and I will say it again. These type of discussions that we are having right now are completely useless, to say the least. I can provide you a handful of sources, including the official census which claim Pashtuns are the majority and you will dismiss them all with your logical reasoning. I will call your sources biased, and you will call my sources biased, and we will continue going in a circle without any ending. However, one thing which I am sure you agree with me on is that there are more Pashtuns than Tajiks. Again, so useless to even mention. Most of those articles are available for Universities, and they can be found in your local library. If you really want to view them, I can try to use my resources and have them scanned for you. Not everything is indexed in Google, so just because it doesn't show in a Google listing doesn't mean it does not exist or if it was not published. The thing is, you will consider my sources as being biased, since you have a predetermined answer in your head already, I am just offering my dos pesos which you may or may not conform too, and that is perfectly reasonable and understandable. However, We need to realize that this discussion is futile, and It's not contributing to the motherland at all. Nevertheless, what I want to make clear here is that I have no problems with Tajiks, Punjabis or Uzbeks. My stance is very simple, and I will make it clear here. If, and only if, a Tajik is qualified to be a foreign minister, I have no problem. If he will treat Pashto and Dari equally, and if he will treat Pashtuns just like how we will treat Tajiks, why even bother opposing him? We are all humans afterall. I mean, are you aware as to how similar Pashtuns and Tajiks are? People make us seem like as if we are as different as Africans and Chinese but in reality, we are pretty close as far our blood line and history goes. The main point is as follows: I, by using common sense, can conclude that since Pashtuns have been awarded the title of being the majority in the 70-80's, and since Pashtuns have a high birth rate, I will argue that they are still the majority, unless there was a holocaust committed. Oh not that us being the majority makes us any better anyway. It redundant and futile to discuss such useless topics considering our present conditions in Afghanistan. It doesn't make business sense, as a store manager would say. We as Pashtuns have to understand that we can not shove Pashto down your throat, the same way you have already understood that you cant shove Dari down our throat. Both languages should be taught, and both languages should be learned. It's really shame Khidr, shame on you, and shame on me. New York City speaks 800 languages, and here we are having problems with just 2 languages, Pashto and Dari. I mean, It's really simple, we need leaders that don't serve foreign agendas that are usually interest-driven[corruption]. If Tajiks aren't on a power trip in a Loya Jirga, I have no objections to their presence. I want my our fair share in the government, and our fair representation in the media and economical affairs. Extremists exist on both sides, there are Tajik extremists who are upset that the military ranks of the Afghan Army are in Pashto, how the anthem is in Pashto, how the parliament and all other official wordings are in Pashto. It's just useless to mention such things because Pashto is not your enemy, the same way I have told others Farsi, German, and French is not our enemy. The more languages we learn, the more successful we are. By giving a language a cold-shoulder, that someone is insulting an entire ethnic group who speaks that language, and that is usually where the problem arises. So Khidr, Pashtuns are not your enemies. We only have problems with those people who insult us, who refuse to recognize Pashto as a national language, and who obviously wish ill upon us.

P.S
The reason why Pashtuns were against a census was because most our population is displaced due to the present war, according to Pakistani sources, there are millions of Pashtuns of Afghanistan currently residing in Pakistan. A census would unfortunately not include those people, even though they were supposed to. A census requires a lot of thinking before it's carried out.

Dear Admin Khan e Gerami,

I also do not have any issues with Pashtuns, I respect Pashto and recognize the many commendable traits of the Pashtun people. At university I find myself more closer to my Ningahari friends and feel more at ease around them than I do with my Iranian friends. Furthermore, I would be more than glad to tell you in private the extent of my personal ties to Pashtuns.


I understand the stupidity of us discussing such issues considering the dire circumstances in our country at the moment. I truly do. I understand that right now it’s 6:00pm there and perhaps over 50% of the population will be going to sleep hungry tonight and/or without any idea how they will feed their family tomorrow.


However, before we can proceed to address such critical issues, we need to see if we can in fact come together. For us to unite, we need to have a sense of belonging and a somewhat united vision for the future. A shared stake in this entity that is Afghanistan. I'm afriad we don’t have this! And it seems to me, we have never had it and we will never have it!


Our points of dissagreements may be specific issues like national anthem, or military ranks or foreign minister or the question of who is a majority, but collectively they add up and bring us to ask what exactly is the identity of our country and how do we envisage its future?


Your reply was diplomatic but it was full of what I would call *red flags*
These *red flags* are issue that are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between us Tajiks and Pashtuns. Allow me to state my point of view on certain issues you raised.

• No, Pashto is not the National Language; nowhere in the constitution does it state that.
• Yes, it is unjust that the national anthem is in Pashto only.
• No, I don’t consider the national anthem as representative of me.
• No, until there is a credible census, there can be no majority or minority in Afghanistan.
• Yes, it's unjust that Universities and the parliament and military titles don’t have equivalent official names in Farsi.
• Yes I recognize the Durrand Line, just like the western and northern borders are recognized.
• No, I don’t want my Tajik lands to be a part of Loy-Afghanistan.
• Yes, I will fight (physically and politically) against the incorporation of my Tajik lands into your Loy-Afghanistan in the unlikely event of it ever occuring.

Issues such as the Durrand Line and Loy Afghanistan are not negotiable, for both you as a Pashtun and me as a Tajik. Your stance on it explains what you see Afghanistan's identity as, and my stance on it explains what I see Afghanistan's identity as.


Can you see the magnitude of our differences?


PS, As for the census, there are many Tajiks that are displaced also. Accommodations’ was to be made in regards to the Pashtun refugees in Pakistan, and including them in the census. Karzai agreed but 10 years on he has failed to implement it. There is an obvious reason as to why no census will ever take place under the authority of an independent foreign organization.

[Khidr]

Khidr i have simple question for you. Do you consider Tajikistan your motherland? if not then why.

LOL What sort of a question is that? No, ofcourse not!

Coz, The land presently called "Afghanistan" but formerly known as Khurasaan for over a thousand years is the land of my fathers and their fathers and their fathers, and so on.

[Admin Khan]

Admin and all others, you have to ask yourself is this the view of one man? i think not, i think hes speaking unanimously not only for all Tajiks but all other minoritys in Afghanistan. Admin to someone like me you can point the conversation in the direction that your up for a Pashtun Country

Show me where I have mentioned anything about this. Go for it, show me. I really think English doesn't work between you and I, no disrespect. I have never asked you to leave your country and join me, so please, whilst I will appreciate your unity, I have never begged you for it, nor have I cried for your hand. That's not how I work, ghairat is present me my brother. No where in this board have I asked any member to leave England, Swat or Islamabad to join me up in Afghanistan. What I must have said is I do not recognize the border, and If you, Manzareh, wish to come to Afghanistan, I will treat you as my brother and just like any other Pashtun of Afghanistan since I see no difference between you and others.

but when it comes to speaking to a non Pashtun you have no option but to proclaim "how similar Pashtuns and Tajiks are" and "Both languages should be taught, and both languages should be learned" (quoted by you) why then do people have a problem with Pashtuns learning Urdu or Punjabi??..

For the sake of Allah, have you ever bothered reading any of my posts before deciding to question me? Where have I ever expressed distaste to Urdu or Punjabi? I love every language in the world. I speak Urdu, I write Urdu, and I can speak about 5 other languages. Languages are beautiful, go learn as many as you can. Hell, go learn Farsi, It's the 2nd most important language in Islam, after Arabic, Imho. So please, don't associate this emotional outcry with me, so far everything you have stated is contradictory since I have never stated what you claimed I stated. I, on many occasions[including in this thread] have stated Punjabis are not our enemies, Tajiks are not our enemies. I made it clear to Khdir as well, that those Tajiks and Punjabis that work against our interests, those Tajiks and Punjabis that refuse to let Pashto enjoy it's prestige is whom we have tons of problems with.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Afghanistan should have its name changed to Ariana, because Afghan=Pashtun and Afghanistan= Hindu Kush to Indus

[Admin Khan]

Dear Admin Khan e Gerami,

I also do not have any issues with Pashtuns, I respect Pashto and recognize the many commendable traits of the Pashtun people. At university I find myself more closer to my Ningahari friends and feel more at ease around them than I do with my Iranian friends. Furthermore, I would be more than glad to tell you in private the extent of my personal ties to Pashtuns.

Great, yea sure, PM me if you would like.

I understand the stupidity of us discussing such issues considering the dire circumstances in our country at the moment. I truly do. I understand that right now it’s 6:00pm there and perhaps over 50% of the population will be going to sleep hungry tonight and/or without any idea how they will feed their family tomorrow.

Exactly, I am glad we share the same sentiments.

However, before we can proceed to address such critical issues, we need to see if we can in fact come together. For us to unite, we need to have a sense of belonging and a somewhat united vision for the future. A shared stake in this entity that is Afghanistan. I'm afriad we don’t have this! And it seems to me, we have never had it and we will never have it!

Lets' see.

No, Pashto is not the National Language; nowhere in the constitution does it state that.

It was made the national language wasn't it? would it not be tolerant and acceptable of you, for permitting Pashtuns, who are far larger in population than you to also allow their language to enjoy prestige? It's not like your language was singled out. The problem you have here is tolerance. You need to be tolerant to other languages. If a Pashtun, learns Dari, why shouldn't you learn Pashto as well? Pashtuns, which I am sure you agreed with me are in far larger terms of population than any other ethnic group, shouldn't that equate to giving respect to their language as well? Or do you expect the largest ethnic group in the nation to go to school and speak a language which is alien to them? Do you follow me here on this one brother?

• Yes, it is unjust that the national anthem is in Pashto only.

Why is it unjust? Pashto is not your enemy. The problem here is that you are having problems embracing the language. If Pashto and Dari are recognized as the official languages, why do you worry about Pashto serving as a medium for our national anthem?

• No, I don’t consider the national anthem as representative of me.

Why not?

• No, until there is a credible census, there can be no majority or minority in Afghanistan.

Like I said before, common sense can help us reach an assumption on who can still be a majority, but like I stated before, It's futile to even discuss this. We know Pashtuns are larger than any other ethnic group, and that is what solely matters for our discussion here.

• Yes I recognize the Durrand Line, just like the western and northern borders are recognized.

• No, I don’t want my Tajik lands to be a part of Loy-Afghanistan.
• Yes, I will fight (physically and politically) against the incorporation of my Tajik lands into your Loy-Afghanistan in the unlikely event of it ever occuring.
  

Why do you feel threatened if more Pashtuns join Afghanistan? Do you think they will discriminate against you? Why do have problems with Afghanistan returning the way it once was?

PS, As for the census, there are many Tajiks that are displaced also. Accommodations’ was to be made in regards to the Pashtun refugees in Pakistan, and including them in the census. Karzai agreed but 10 years on he has failed to implement it. There is an obvious reason as to why no census will ever take place under the authority of an independent foreign organization.

It's silly to compare the amount of Tajiks displaced vis-a-vis Pashtuns. Most of the war has taken place in the South, and most of the Southerners have left to Pakistan. So it's illogical to even demand a census in such harsh conditions where a big chunk of our population serves as refugees in other lands. When things get back to normal, and when Pashtuns return back home, a census will take place, and it will show us being the majority just like it did in the 70's, and 80's by a handful of organizations.

[Admin Khan]

This one sentence exactly describes why I consider our differences (as Tajiks and Pashtuns) to be irreconcilable and fundamental.

Afghanistan is a 100 year old country. The piece of land called Afghanistan didn’t fall from the sky. It has a history before the Durrani Empire or the creation of the modern state of Afghanistan by British and Tzarist Russia.

Of course it did.

As for your claim that Pashtun are “defenders of Afghanistan” let me say, the British walked through Khyber, the British walked and camped in Jallalabad.
The British walked through Kandahar and camped there. They captured Kabul because the Pashtun areas let them through. The British made many encroachments north of Kabul but could not capture one town north of Kabul. Mir Bacha Khan Koh Damani, Mir Masjeedi Khan Kohistani, Mir Jalalander Khan, did not let the British step one foot north of Kabul in both their incursions into Kabul, they may not have been acknowledged by the apartheid Pashtunist governments in comparison to Wazir Akbar Khan and Ayub, but their sacrifice and chivalry was no less in fact I would argue much more since they did not seek political power in response for defending their lands!

The British witnessed hell in Pashtun area's Khidr, why are you turning a blind eye to the fact that Pashtuns have been defending Afghanistan since it's modern inception, what I just stated is well recognized by nearly every Afghan expert in the world. In fact, the British after being defeated 3 times by the Pashtuns of Lar and Bar, went as far as labeling us a 'martial race'. This is an established fact. Primarily the Pashtuns, along with other minorities, defeated the Soviets, the British and the list continues. In fact, let's put politics to the side, it's the Pashtuns that are currently defending the nation against invaders. Whether we like it or not, things could not have been more obvious for us. If you read any book about Anglo-Afghan war, you will learn more about Nazo Ana and what the people of Waziristan did. The British was never successful in subduing the Pashtuns, which is why they divided us and brought the king under duress and made him sign a treaty in English, a language he never understood! He was never presented this "Durrand" treaty in his language. Which alone appears to be suspect.

I agree and feel the same. The issue is now what how do we define “working against my people.”

To me, and 99.999% of other Tajiks, a Pashtun is working against our people when he:

a) Seeks to imprison us in an apartheid state called Loy-Afghanistan
b) Calls us minority in our own land
c) States they have more right to our lands
d) Dictates what we call our language
e) Dictates what words we use in our language
f) Forcefully acquires our land
g) I can go on and on...

The above is based on you perception of the issue. You are having difficulties in embracing a fellow ethnic group, which means you view everything the Pashtuns do in a scope that revolves around hate. No Pashtun wishes to dictate over minorities, let alone take them as slaves. We have corrupt leaders, but the aforementioned does not apply to ordinary Pashtuns. Do you think Pashtuns will just get up and begin stealing the land of Punjabis and Tajik? Our culture teaches us better Khidr, you and I both know that.

Furthermore I I would rather end in up in a mass grave then be a prisoner in my own ancient land.

No body is making you a prisoner. Do you think Pashtuns of Lar and Bar are these scary people that the minute they unite they will capture you upon sight and make you a prisoner? That is not how we operate. We are a peace-loving nation.

I have nothing against you doing Attan with your Pakistani Pashtuns brothers in your Pashtun state with capital of Peshawar or Kandadar, but I have everything against you doing Attan in my Kabul/Herat/Shamali/Balkh/Badakshaan with your Pakistani brothers.

Nobody is against your unification with your cousins from the other side of the “imaginary line.” But over 9 million Tajiks are against you stealing what is not yours and incorporating it into your Loy-Afghanistan.

I love my people on the other side, what can I do Khidr? We share the same blood, we have the same history, culture and families. We lets suppose have an uncle living in Lar and an aunt living in bar. Do you really think an imaginary line will divide them? We aren't stealing anything. We are working for our motherland, as a matter of fact, we are not even forcing my brothers of Pashtunkhwa to join us, If they refuse to join, I will still wish them happiness.

This issue is the root cause of our problems. Pashtuns preach Loy-Afghanistan and Tajiks reject the idea of them and their lands being incorporated into a Pashtun state.

There is no such thing as a "Pashtun state". There are minorities in Peshawar, and there are minorities in Swat who don't even speak Pashto, the same way they are minorities in Kandahar. No one said they will create a Pashtunistan and use Bamiyaan as our capital.

[Manzareh]

Show me where I have mentioned anything about this. Go for it, show me. I really think English doesn't work between you and I, no disrespect. I have never asked you to leave your country and join me, so please, whilst I will appreciate your unity, I have never begged you for it, nor have I cried for your hand. That's not how I work, ghairat is present me my brother. No where in this board have I asked any member to leave England, Swat or Islamabad to join me up in Afghanistan. What I must have said is I do not recognize the border, and If you, Manzareh, wish to come to Afghanistan, I will treat you as my brother and just like any other Pashtun of Afghanistan since I see no difference between you and others..

Admin i said point the direction as in what one grasps from a convorsation. if i meant you said it in specific words i would have quoted you. your complaining about how i state things that you never said and yet your saying i said something which i didnt!! were have i ever said that youv asked me to leave my country and join you?? i havnt i wouldnt so i dont no were you got that from, more importantly how have you come to a conclusion that i think your crying for my hand!!? or telling me to leave England!??? were are you getting these assumptions from!!!? i have not asked any of these things from you and neither have i said youve asked me for them. i dont see any difference between you and other pashtuns aswel and i swear from the bottom of my heart if you ever needed my assistance i would catch a plane to anyware in the world for you even though i dont no your name or anything but for the simple reason that i have faith from your personality that you are a good person, a pashtun and a muslim, i wudnt put anybody down by implying they need me or cry for my help as i am a petty human being that is going to be 6ft in the mud just like everybody else.

For the sake of Allah, have you ever bothered reading any of my posts before deciding to question me? Where have I ever expressed distaste to Urdu or Punjabi? I love every language in the world. I speak Urdu, I write Urdu, and I can speak about 5 other languages. Languages are beautiful, go learn as many as you can. Hell, go learn Farsi, It's the 2nd most important language in Islam, after Arabic, Imho. So please, don't associate this emotional outcry with me, so far everything you have stated is contradictory since I have never stated what you claimed I stated. I, on many occasions[including in this thread] have stated Punjabis are not our enemies, Tajiks are not our enemies. I made it clear to Khdir as well, that those Tajiks and Punjabis that work against our interests, those Tajiks and Punjabis that refuse to let Pashto enjoy it's prestige is whom we have tons of problems with.

and read the quote i didnt say YOU have a problem with urdu i said "why do people" have a problem, which you cant deny they do here when they dont have a problem with dari. my view is the same as yours i dont see tajiks or persians or punjabis as my enemy, the arguements i have here are because i dont support a multi ethnic country which is more than 10%. i just believe for a pashtun to have his land is like having his home, you wudnt let outsiders live in your house and teach your children customs and language that are alien to yours.

[Alchemist]

You guys are arguing in 20th century language...

these things mean nothing in the 21st century...numbers, statistics, facts, labels ..this that ... it's all just a blur ...all relative ...all subjective ..all fantastic on paper.

The only unifying nexus for pashtuns/afghans/pakistanis/arabs is Islam. During the 20th century we let go of Islam and tried to "revolutionize" with "nationalism" ...but nationalism is inherintly problematic. These arguments are considered "natural" even in the most advanced nations on the planet. You are fighting and bickering over crumbs off the dinner table like lap dogs. In the 21st century, boarders are irrelevant!
The important question to ask: Are we free?
For the majority of us, we are middle class...which means "going no where". And the system we are literally dying to install in Afghanistan is made for technocrates...power-lusting, castrated stooges, who can't do any good for themselves or the people. Democracy is a failure even in America so why ask for it? The last thing we need is narrow-minded "educated/brainwashed" people who incite "Self-hatred" and cheer for colonialism. Why is india where it is today? Because they are a colonized people...but I'll tell you the people of india are worse off today then they were 400 years ago. If we keep beating the drums of nationalism...that region that is barely middle/eastern and barely "asian" ..will become totally "African"...locked in perpetual war. So the first thing you guys have to agree on is that colonialism should end. Pakistan ...believe it or not is a colony. They are a colonized people before they were a "nation". What was so great about benazair bhutto? That she "modernized/westernized" pakistani girls...that was her biggest accomplished in the eyes of the west. To a colonized people it is very important that they get "Acceptance" from their colonizers. We, call us pashtuns/tajiks..or AFghans or khursanies or Arians or whatever ... should be proud of the fact that we are probably the last LIVING nation to not be colonized. That alone is the sole feature of the AFghan in today's world that makes him stand out from the rest of the world. That should be our insignia - freedom lovers. We shouldn't want to be dictated to..we shouldn't wish for it. If all our politicians and leaders could just agree on these basic principles then the rest won't be a problem...things like "representation parliament", "national army", boarders are defined by the "unity" of a people...which in turn is reflected by the leadership. George bush is a dumbass but we know he wasn't "leading" he was just "following" some "shadow government".
My own guess is that in the next 50 years...wars will perpetuate. The mono-polar superpower America will try to incorporate it's NATO allies into a grander "world system", introduce a world currency and a world tax and english its only recognized language. Eventually you will be living in Huxely's "Brave New World". There will be two types of regions all over world..."civilized/developed/modernized" and the rest will be treated like "reserves", where the primitive will be kept. There won't be a middle class..there will be only the rich and the poor. If things go the way they are, probably 90% of Afghanistan and Pakistan will be classified as a "reserve". (Mind you that the US has "nationalized" something like 30% of its territories already under the guise of "enviornmental protection" so you will see it happen there too around 50%.) Which will mean, that you will be forbidden to go there. Therefore, trade and commerce will be cut off to those people living in reserves. On the high tech side, you will have a chip installed in you and your life dictated in it. On the primitive side, you'll live "free" at least...preserve your native language and religion and since you won't be needing your natural resources, there will be heavy military basis to guard them for you.
You can choose to live in either of these regions now but later you won't have that luxury because it will get too costly for you to move around. This is the reality where most of us are finding our selves. That we are trying to host two guests, each of whom is an enemy to other, simultaneously in our mind...and expect it to be peaceful.
I can assure you, on the question of durrand line, nothing will happen on an international scale.
Most of today's war is fought on the t.v and internet and not so much the battlefield. Granted that billions of dollars worth of bombs are dropped every year all over the world but we measure success and failure according to our own perceptions. And what changes perception is the media. Which is why a suicide bombing is more potent than an IED. Therefore, if you want to bring a change in the perception of a people, you will need to figure out how to "define" what it is you want to install in the identity of a people. So far, you cannot even define what "pashtun" is. Is it a specific gene? the language? I mean hitlier was a genius, but even he couldn't define "germans" without defining the enemy of the germans - the jews. Not even the americans could define themselves without defining their enemies first - the greedy monarchy, the terrorizing natives. So you have your neighbors for enemies, and hope define start defining your self, by knowing where they end in similarity with you ...its a rather futile and pitiful state of affairs and I think you should reconsider this position, and redefine what it is you want in the future./rant

[Admin Khan]

Admin i said point the direction as in what one grasps from a convorsation. if i meant you said it in specific words i would have quoted you. your complaining about how i state things that you never said and yet your saying i said something which i didnt!! were have i ever said that youv asked me to leave my country and join you?? i havnt i wouldnt so i dont no were you got that from, more importantly how have you come to a conclusion that i think your crying for my hand!!? or telling me to leave England!??? were are you getting these assumptions from!!!? i have not asked any of these things from you and neither have i said youve asked me for them. i dont see any difference between you and other pashtuns aswel and i swear from the bottom of my heart if you ever needed my assistance i would catch a plane to anyware in the world for you even though i dont no your name or anything but for the simple reason that i have faith from your personality that you are a good person, a pashtun and a muslim, i wudnt put anybody down by implying they need me or cry for my help as i am a petty human being that is going to be 6ft in the mud just like everybody else.

This is what you said,

Admin to someone like me you can point the conversation in the direction that your up for a Pashtun Country

And my response was where did I ever voice my political concern and how did you reach that conclusion. That is all. We have the same concerns Manzareh, I am glad you have Lar and Bar unity present in your heart, and I am glad you are aware that we are not enemies here. We are brothers who share the same history, culture and blood.

and read the quote i didnt say YOU have a problem with urdu i said "why do people" have a problem, which you cant deny they do here when they dont have a problem with dari. my view is the same as yours i dont see tajiks or persians or punjabis as my enemy, the arguements i have here are because i dont support a multi ethnic country which is more than 10%. i just believe for a pashtun to have his land is like having his home, you wudnt let outsiders live in your house and teach your children customs and language that are alien to yours.

That is all. We are on the same page. You just said everything I have been saying in the past 3 pages.

[Admin Khan]

You guys are arguing in 20th century language...

these things mean nothing in the 21st century...numbers, statistics, facts, labels ..this that ... it's all just a blur ...all relative ...all subjective ..all fantastic on paper.

The only unifying nexus for pashtuns/afghans/pakistanis/arabs is Islam. During the 20th century we let go of Islam and tried to "revolutionize" with "nationalism" ...but nationalism is inherintly problematic. These arguments are considered "natural" even in the most advanced nations on the planet. You are fighting and bickering over crumbs off the dinner table like lap dogs. In the 21st century, boarders are irrelevant!
The important question to ask: Are we free?
For the majority of us, we are middle class...which means "going no where". And the system we are literally dying to install in Afghanistan is made for technocrates...power-lusting, castrated stooges, who can't do any good for themselves or the people. Democracy is a failure even in America so why ask for it? The last thing we need is narrow-minded "educated/brainwashed" people who incite "Self-hatred" and cheer for colonialism. Why is india where it is today? Because they are a colonized people...but I'll tell you the people of india are worse off today then they were 400 years ago. If we keep beating the drums of nationalism...that region that is barely middle/eastern and barely "asian" ..will become totally "African"...locked in perpetual war. So the first thing you guys have to agree on is that colonialism should end. Pakistan ...believe it or not is a colony. They are a colonized people before they were a "nation". What was so great about benazair bhutto? That she "modernized/westernized" pakistani girls...that was her biggest accomplished in the eyes of the west. To a colonized people it is very important that they get "Acceptance" from their colonizers. We, call us pashtuns/tajiks..or AFghans or khursanies or Arians or whatever ... should be proud of the fact that we are probably the last LIVING nation to not be colonized. That alone is the sole feature of the AFghan in today's world that makes him stand out from the rest of the world. That should be our insignia - freedom lovers. We shouldn't want to be dictated to..we shouldn't wish for it. If all our politicians and leaders could just agree on these basic principles then the rest won't be a problem...things like "representation parliament", "national army", boarders are defined by the "unity" of a people...which in turn is reflected by the leadership. George bush is a dumbass but we know he wasn't "leading" he was just "following" some "shadow government".
My own guess is that in the next 50 years...wars will perpetuate. The mono-polar superpower America will try to incorporate it's NATO allies into a grander "world system", introduce a world currency and a world tax and english its only recognized language. Eventually you will be living in Huxely's "Brave New World". There will be two types of regions all over world..."civilized/developed/modernized" and the rest will be treated like "reserves", where the primitive will be kept. There won't be a middle class..there will be only the rich and the poor. If things go the way they are, probably 90% of Afghanistan and Pakistan will be classified as a "reserve". (Mind you that the US has "nationalized" something like 30% of its territories already under the guise of "enviornmental protection" so you will see it happen there too around 50%.) Which will mean, that you will be forbidden to go there. Therefore, trade and commerce will be cut off to those people living in reserves. On the high tech side, you will have a chip installed in you and your life dictated in it. On the primitive side, you'll live "free" at least...preserve your native language and religion and since you won't be needing your natural resources, there will be heavy military basis to guard them for you.
You can choose to live in either of these regions now but later you won't have that luxury because it will get too costly for you to move around. This is the reality where most of us are finding our selves. That we are trying to host two guests, each of whom is an enemy to other, simultaneously in our mind...and expect it to be peaceful.
I can assure you, on the question of durrand line, nothing will happen on an international scale.
Most of today's war is fought on the t.v and internet and not so much the battlefield. Granted that billions of dollars worth of bombs are dropped every year all over the world but we measure success and failure according to our own perceptions. And what changes perception is the media. Which is why a suicide bombing is more potent than an IED. Therefore, if you want to bring a change in the perception of a people, you will need to figure out how to "define" what it is you want to install in the identity of a people. So far, you cannot even define what "pashtun" is. Is it a specific gene? the language? I mean hitlier was a genius, but even he couldn't define "germans" without defining the enemy of the germans - the jews. Not even the americans could define themselves without defining their enemies first - the greedy monarchy, the terrorizing natives. So you have your neighbors for enemies, and hope define start defining your self, by knowing where they end in similarity with you ...its a rather futile and pitiful state of affairs and I think you should reconsider this position, and redefine what it is you want in the future./rant

That is why when I even began offering my rebuttal, I clearly said what we are discussing is futile and useless.

[Azmal]

Dear Admin Khan e Gerami,

I also do not have any issues with Pashtuns, I respect Pashto and recognize the many commendable traits of the Pashtun people. At university I find myself more closer to my Ningahari friends and feel more at ease around them than I do with my Iranian friends. Furthermore, I would be more than glad to tell you in private the extent of my personal ties to Pashtuns.


I understand the stupidity of us discussing such issues considering the dire circumstances in our country at the moment. I truly do. I understand that right now it’s 6:00pm there and perhaps over 50% of the population will be going to sleep hungry tonight and/or without any idea how they will feed their family tomorrow.


However, before we can proceed to address such critical issues, we need to see if we can in fact come together. For us to unite, we need to have a sense of belonging and a somewhat united vision for the future. A shared stake in this entity that is Afghanistan. I'm afriad we don’t have this! And it seems to me, we have never had it and we will never have it!


Our points of dissagreements may be specific issues like national anthem, or military ranks or foreign minister or the question of who is a majority, but collectively they add up and bring us to ask what exactly is the identity of our country and how do we envisage its future?


Your reply was diplomatic but it was full of what I would call *red flags*
These *red flags* are issue that are fundamental and irreconcilable differences between us Tajiks and Pashtuns. Allow me to state my point of view on certain issues you raised.

• No, Pashto is not the National Language; nowhere in the constitution does it state that.
• Yes, it is unjust that the national anthem is in Pashto only.
• No, I don’t consider the national anthem as representative of me.
• No, until there is a credible census, there can be no majority or minority in Afghanistan.
• Yes, it's unjust that Universities and the parliament and military titles don’t have equivalent official names in Farsi.
• Yes I recognize the Durrand Line, just like the western and northern borders are recognized.
• No, I don’t want my Tajik lands to be a part of Loy-Afghanistan.
• Yes, I will fight (physically and politically) against the incorporation of my Tajik lands into your Loy-Afghanistan in the unlikely event of it ever occuring.

Issues such as the Durrand Line and Loy Afghanistan are not negotiable, for both you as a Pashtun and me as a Tajik. Your stance on it explains what you see Afghanistan's identity as, and my stance on it explains what I see Afghanistan's identity as.


Can you see the magnitude of our differences?


PS, As for the census, there are many Tajiks that are displaced also. Accommodations’ was to be made in regards to the Pashtun refugees in Pakistan, and including them in the census. Karzai agreed but 10 years on he has failed to implement it. There is an obvious reason as to why no census will ever take place under the authority of an independent foreign organization.

Khdir…or I been told Qandagha aka Tamogak (a Chair Ahmaq from Mazari Sharif…living in Australia.)
The issue of Afghan claims to lands not belonging to Pakistan are of immense national interest and while any Afghan has the right to disagree on these claims or any other, he’ll still have to explain how his arguments to the contrary better serves the national interest. If your views are to be broadly reflected among Afghans, then you’ll still have to explain why you’re so eager to serve the interests of Pakistan over that of your own country? Why do you wish for Afghanistan to remain land-locked and forever condemned to asking permission from her neighbors for access to the international trading routes? Perhaps you’d wish to enlighten as to which current Afghan leader in your opinion is willing to be remembered as the one who served the enemy while for the first time in our history, Afghanistan enjoys an advantage? You can’t hide behind Tajik this or Pashton that rants.

[Azmal]

See, this is the problem, Khidr has stepped out (rightfully) and pointed out that Afghanistan is not a Pashtun country or atleast will never except that it is, him and 99.9999999% of other Tajiks as he states. He has no problem in you saying Pashtun areas are 'Afghanistan as a Pashtun country' but justly points out that Pashtuns have no right in saying 'Kabul/Herat/Shamali/Balkh/Badakshaan' are part of a 'Pashtun Country' (all major citys in Afghansitan)..he doesnt even recognise the name of afghanistan or agrees with it, Admin and all others, you have to ask yourself is this the view of one man? i think not, i think hes speaking unanimously not only for all Tajiks but all other minoritys in Afghanistan. Admin to someone like me you can point the conversation in the direction that your up for a Pashtun Country but when it comes to speaking to a non Pashtun you have no option but to proclaim "how similar Pashtuns and Tajiks are" and "Both languages should be taught, and both languages should be learned" (quoted by you) why then do people have a problem with Pashtuns learning Urdu or Punjabi??..yes i mind the pashtun tounge being reshaped to suit Urdu and Dari but someone with your view on us clearly doesnt, with all due respect doesnt this alone conclude that aslong as we have people with your frame of mind we will never have a pure pashtun country??

Khidr i have simple question for you. Do you consider Tajikistan your motherland? if not then why.

Inter-Afghan issue…Pakistani scoundrels like you are not needed…stay out of it.

[Alchemist]

If your views are to be broadly reflected among Afghans, then you’ll still have to explain why you’re so eager to serve the interests of Pakistan over that of your own country? Why do you wish for Afghanistan to remain land-locked and forever condemned to asking permission from her neighbors for access to the international trading routes? .

take solace in the fact that not even pakistan is benefiting from its seaports in balochistan. Just a weeks ago the pakistanies were trying to assure the chinese that they can protect the route to the arabian sea from "taliban" so I don't see how you could fair any better if you were in their position as guards. And even if Durrand Line is negated, there is no guarantee that Afghanistan will have access to the sea...or is there?

[Manzareh]

Inter-Afghan issue…Pakistani scoundrels like you are not needed…stay out of it.

mr "Pashton" youve already been exposed so i suggest you keep your stinking bacteria inhabiting mouth closed. da afghan masalaa nadaa da pakhto masalaa da, staa pashante dalagaan pa de khaberi ke pakaar nadi, zaan na de pakhtun jore kelideh, spey shanti ghapeh, doomra sakht zoor makawa khla dana ba nore ghul rawoozi