Why do Afghani Pashtuns hate Pakistan?

[ScimitarXEdge]

^^ Nice Assessment; it's like the Tutsis and Hutus except on Geographic Proportions.

[menon]

People are killed by drones, and the Pakistanis are winking and nodding. Let the people in FATA die, so what? Without American money , what will we do? So let the Pashtuns die. Why? The Punjabi thinks that, Pashtuns can never stand united. To a great extent it is true. The point im making is, Pakistan simply wants to use, Afghanistan as their backyard. They call it strategic depth against India. It is nothing but plain chicanery. What they want is a loyal government there which will not question the Durand line.

[MazloomYarMasud]

You really need to find something new to say. You sound like a drunk parrot. 1936 is not few decades ago.


Are you against Quran?



Drunken parrot spamming this board.

As Usual your response is weak.

Was you not the guy who said to me on Facebook that Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa are just "Rent a Pashtun" for your Afghans who you consider as Real and Pure Pashtuns.

I have seen the Madrassahs all over Pakhtunkhwa and I have been to Islamabad and seen the Lal Masjid, most of the students are Afghan refugees and their mentors are Punjabi Mullahs.

I remmeber a Afghan who returned from Tabligh with a cousin of mine, I was praising Faqir of Ipi, your Afghan told me that he is a Kaffir and a Nationalist and does not represent Pashtuns as he fought against Muslims(Punjabis/Pakistanis).

I think the border should have been fenced a very long time ago, Pakistan Army should have cleaned its ranks of those route generals and ISI who are obsessed with Militancy in Afghanistan, if Pakistan did this then there would be no problems whats so ever but sadly Pakistan is obcessed with Islamic Militancy in Afghanistan which the people of Afghanistan allowed Pakistan to exploit them.

At the end of the day, Afghanistan is sooo heavily influenced by Saudi-Pakistan Islami Parties that its IMPOSSIBLE to see Afghanistan reclaiming anything. Afghans at present seem to prefer the afterlife more than this life due to the poverty and the war inflicted upon them by Pakistan and their Persian Kings.

There is no armed or unarmed movement in Afghanistan for the unification of Pashtuns. Its as Simple as that. There are 1000s of Islamic militants from all over the world in Afghanistan, show me a single Pro Nationalist who has been given sheltered from the Afghan people? why do the people of Afghanistan prefer to shelter Arab Bedouins/Chechens/Punjabis than their own people from Nationalist Parties.

As if the tribes in Afghanistan are so weak they can not stop these Jihadis from destroying their country? there is always some benefit for their presence which is solely Financial not Religionous.

If there was a Temporary Fence made by Mushraff to stop the movement of Afghans/Arabs/Chechens/Punjabis and other Pashtuns into Pakhtunkhwa right at the start then there would have been peace but that is too late now.

Kind Regards

[Shayesta]

that side with india a nation that has caused mass genocide against muslims in gujrat. some questions..

Why did Afghanistan provide Air bases to Indian Air force in 1971 India-Pak war?

Why is there heavy Indian intelligence presence in Afghanistan, even now?

I hear that Indians don't want American presence in the region, though the want American investment in India itself, so it must use Afghanistan's shoulder hypocritically without confronting US openly

When India was 'neutral' defending the Afghans, it was Pak that protected Afghanistan from being slaughtered by the Soviets.

Afghanis let Najibullah (pro-Indian/Soviet) become president. Afghanistan let India support the Northern Alliance, & served as a proxy against Pak.

Afghanistan let India stir up proxy wars in Pak in the form of the TTP & BLA

They instilled a pro-Indian Pashtun (Karzai) who's the biggest drug trafficker

[Khidr]

Manzareh, as I promised, here is my source that Pashtuns are 63-65 percent of the Afghan population. WAK FOUNDATION is an independent organization, It's not ran by Pashtuns, It's an organization from Norway. So, I hope you better understand things now.


And our very own Nick, has also elaborated on a few points here.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...han-race-1749/

Dear Admin Khan,

Although I fully appreciate and respect the underlying political motives for you to portray Afghanistan to Pakistani Pashtuns as a Pashtun majority country, I'm sure you know in your heart of hearts that that is not the truth...in fact far from it.

I'm also sure you don't need me to tell you that WAK Foundation is not independent as you claim. It was the foundation created by Amin Wakman. The former head of Afghan Mellat Party. I think the conflict of interest of a 'survey' on the demographics of Afghanistan conducted by the foundation of the former head of Afghna Mellat is obvious to all.

If Pashtuns were close to 50% then notable Pashtun politicians would not have had any problem confirming Pashtun majority in public. The issue of Pashtun majority would not have been a taboo subject for a notable Pashtun politician to confirm.

Take for example this Pashtunist Parliamentarian. He stated in the first video that “we are all Afghans" but also subtely used the words majority (aksaryat) and minority (aqalyat) in his introduction.

In the second video of the same show, you will see 3 Tajiks immediately noticed the use of the word ‘majority and minority’ and proceeded to challenge him to elaborate on it, and confirm if he is implying that a majority ethnicity exists in Afghanistan.

The Pashtunist parliamentarian, did not have the audacity to confirm this and backtracked, instead of addressing the question, he once again repeated the party line that Afghanistan is a country of various ethnicities.
YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 1‬‎[/URL]

YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 3‬‎[/URL]

[graveyardofempires]

Dear Admin Khan,

Although I fully appreciate and respect the underlying political motives for you to portray Afghanistan to Pakistani Pashtuns as a Pashtun majority country, I'm sure you know in your heart of hearts that that is not the truth...in fact far from it.

I'm also sure you don't need me to tell you that WAK Foundation is not independent as you claim. It was the foundation created by Amin Wakman. The former head of Afghan Mellat Party. I think the conflict of interest of a 'survey' on the demographics of Afghanistan conducted by the foundation of the former head of Afghna Mellat is obvious to all.

If Pashtuns were close to 50% then notable Pashtun politicians would not have had any problem confirming Pashtun majority in public. The issue of Pashtun majority would not have been a taboo subject for a notable Pashtun politician to confirm.

Take for example this Pashtunist Parliamentarian. He stated in the first video that “we are all Afghans" but also subtely used the words majority (aksaryat) and minority (aqalyat) in his introduction.

In the second video of the same show, you will see 3 Tajiks immediately noticed the use of the word ‘majority and minority’ and proceeded to challenge him to elaborate on it, and confirm if he is implying that a majority ethnicity exists in Afghanistan.

The Pashtunist parliamentarian, did not have the audacity to confirm this and backtracked, instead of addressing the question, he once again repeated the party line that Afghanistan is a country of various ethnicities.
YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 1‬‎[/URL]

YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 3‬‎[/URL]

you talk about pashtunist while you have a quote from the racist goat masood in your comment.

Afghanistan is not only Pashtun country but the fact is that pashtuns are the majority and you should stick to the facts.
offcourse some want other numbers so they try to bring pashtuns down to that number.

you need to be a little open minded and dont feel threatend if we say that pashtuns are the majority.at the end it wont even matter majority minority if we didnt have masood,mazari,dostum trying to be representing their own ethnicities only and causing friction.

[graveyardofempires]

Dear Admin Khan,

Although I fully appreciate and respect the underlying political motives for you to portray Afghanistan to Pakistani Pashtuns as a Pashtun majority country, I'm sure you know in your heart of hearts that that is not the truth...in fact far from it.

I'm also sure you don't need me to tell you that WAK Foundation is not independent as you claim. It was the foundation created by Amin Wakman. The former head of Afghan Mellat Party. I think the conflict of interest of a 'survey' on the demographics of Afghanistan conducted by the foundation of the former head of Afghna Mellat is obvious to all.

If Pashtuns were close to 50% then notable Pashtun politicians would not have had any problem confirming Pashtun majority in public. The issue of Pashtun majority would not have been a taboo subject for a notable Pashtun politician to confirm.

Take for example this Pashtunist Parliamentarian. He stated in the first video that “we are all Afghans" but also subtely used the words majority (aksaryat) and minority (aqalyat) in his introduction.

In the second video of the same show, you will see 3 Tajiks immediately noticed the use of the word ‘majority and minority’ and proceeded to challenge him to elaborate on it, and confirm if he is implying that a majority ethnicity exists in Afghanistan.

The Pashtunist parliamentarian, did not have the audacity to confirm this and backtracked, instead of addressing the question, he once again repeated the party line that Afghanistan is a country of various ethnicities.
YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 1‬‎[/URL]

YouTube - ‫برنامه مناظره کابل - مشارکت ملی 3‬‎[/URL]

ahmad wali masood is not a good candidate to be even here talking.
he would rather come here and sanotage the important discussion.

[graveyardofempires]

i agree with the speakers on the second video
the ones who asked questions are just a bunch of ignorant fools except for the first one and the last.

[Admin Khan]

Dear Admin Khan,

Assalam-Alaikum.

Dear Khidr Jaan,
I hope you are in good health. I hope you're Civil Engineering program, and all other obstacles are going in your best interest/favor. You were away for a few days, so I hope everything is great. I pray for whatever is in your best interest. Now let's see what you have in store for us today.

Although I fully appreciate and respect the underlying political motives for you to portray Afghanistan to Pakistani Pashtuns as a Pashtun majority country, I'm sure you know in your heart of hearts that that is not the truth...in fact far from it. I'm also sure you don't need me to tell you that WAK Foundation is not independent as you claim. It was the foundation created by Amin Wakman. The former head of Afghan Mellat Party. I think the conflict of interest of a 'survey' on the demographics of Afghanistan conducted by the foundation of the former head of Afghna Mellat is obvious to all.

Khidr jaan, with all due respect, I consider these population discussions to be extremely futile, the reasons being plenty. We achieve nothing, and as we speak, we presently do not have any hard proof, which is up to date. We don't have censuses every decade like in the USA, so pretty much It's your unsubstantiated opinion, vs my dos pesos. However, since you raised the yellow card here, I have no problem with offering you my opinion on the matter. You claim Pashtuns are not the majority, yet I ask you to define the term majority for me. How do you describe majority? Pashtuns, have been the majority, according to various sources. The most prevalent being the following:

1. Wak foundation in 1999 after a six years survey and reserch concluded that there are 62.73 Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

2. Afghanistan by Max Clumborg 1960, states the percentage of Pashtuns to 60%.

3. Fundamentalism reborn? Afghanistan and the taleban by Wilam Maley, London 1998. Pashtuns 62.73

4. The world geoethnology, Academic research by M Mahjub and F Yawari, 5th ed 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 60%

5. The world population. Prof C. I. Brok, 1981 USSR. Pashtuns 52.8%.

6. Afghanistan. Prof M Ali. Kabul 1955. Pashtuns 60%.

7. The National Language of Afghanistan. Prof Aslanov 1964 USSR. Pashtuns 60%.

8. Afghanistan Federation System. M Enam Wak. 2000 Pakistan. Pashtuns 62%

9. History & establishment of Afghanistan. Abdullah Ahmad Almir. 1980 Qattar - London. Pashtuns 58.7 %

10. Ibid. Abdul Azim Waylan. 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 70%.

So now if you want to turn a blind eye to your Persian brothers, who clearly state Pashtuns are the majority[70percent], that is fine. It's your free-will to not accept the aforementioned statistics, I will never force you to accept what I say. However, by barely refuting anything I stated, we aren't going anywhere. It's either you prove all 10 sources above are wrong, or you can simply state that you refuse to accept the truth. It's as simple as mentioned. I would even argue that Pashtuns have an extremely high birth rate as well, In fact, Afghanistan has one of the highest birth rates in the world, and most of that is because of Pashtuns. Every family I know, and I am sure you know of has 7 children, If not more. Those numbers add up, as I am sure you know since you are presently enrolled in a Math intensive major. Many Pashtuns, who have migrated to the North, have lost their language. In fact, even the Pashto speakers alone in the South are multiplying as we speak. I, like I have said many times before have nothing against Persians, or Persian-speakers. I just stated the obvious. Afghanistan's backbone is Pashtuns. From the founder, to it's defenders, however, I acknowledge something many refuse to acknowledge, I acknowledge that many, and I mean many Tajiks have spilled their blood for Afghanistan as well. It's their home as well, and It's their country as well. I am not someone who believes you should give up your language and roots, I respect Tajiks, and I respect Uzbeks. However, this is where the fine print come into practice, any Tajik or Uzbek who works against my people, would have to take me down first. I will defend my people, If a Tajik wishes ill for Pashto and Pashtuns, I have a problem. I similarly have problems with Pashtuns who spew nothing but hate about ordinary,peace-loving Punjabis and Tajiks. We are not maniacs Khidr, we are a peace-loving nation who want nothing but peace. If you press our wrong buttons, history says we will win and we will win until our last man drops, and we barely care about collateral damage. Our nang, religion, and namoos is of more value for us. So If you think by me stating these authoritative sources, I am attempting to downplay your role, think twice. I am very open-minded, however, accept us being higher in terms of population than you. Accept the obvious, there are more Pashtuns in the worlds, than there are people who refer to themselves as Tajiks. This is more like common sense in effect here. I completely understand that due to soviet war, British war, many Pashtuns have migrated, however, that does not mean we do not exist. We just joined our cousins on the other side of the imaginary line, and left our soldiers to do the leg-work for us. It's not like we ran away, take a look the battle-ground of any war, all you will hear is Pashto. Hell, watch Rambo, even all Russian, and American movies revolve around Pashto, since it's the language of the battle-fields. Now whether I am fan of the war, or not a fan of the war, that is my political opinion, which I keep to myself, and I quite frankly don't feel like sharing it. Oh and as far as your videos is concerned, lol, that made me sort of smirk a smile because a few gentlemen stated exactly what I did now. If you understand Pashto, and if you watched all parts of the program, you would know what I mean. He clearly stated if we look at the past, we can see what the truth is. The gentleman also stated one ethnic group has a higher population than the other, and that is a fact.

If Pashtuns were close to 50% then notable Pashtun politicians would not have had any problem confirming Pashtun majority in public. The issue of Pashtun majority would not have been a taboo subject for a notable Pashtun politician to confirm.

Common sense tell us, without a census, we can't confirm things. However, we can analyze and take a look at prior censuses which tell us 1 thing --Pashtuns are majority. For a parliamentarian to quote decade old sources means he might not get voted into office again. For us students, who have the ability to analyze, we can read data and understand the following:
If according to more than 10 sources, Pashtuns are the majority, and since we know Pashtuns have a high birth rate, with the aforementioned stipulations, we can conclude that Pashtuns are still higher in terms of population when compared to any other ethnic group.

[Babadung]

Assalam-Alaikum.

Dear Khidr Jaan,
I hope you are in good health. I hope you're Civil Engineering program, and all other obstacles are going in your best interest/favor. You were away for a few days, so I hope everything is great. I pray for whatever is in your best interest. Now let's see what you have in store for us today.

Khidr jaan, with all due respect, I consider these population discussions to be extremely futile, the reasons being plenty. We achieve nothing, and as we speak, we presently do not have any hard proof, which is up to date. We don't have censuses every decade like in the USA, so pretty much It's your unsubstantiated opinion, vs my dos pesos. However, since you raised the yellow card here, I have no problem with offering you my opinion on the matter. You claim Pashtuns are not the majority, yet I ask you to define the term majority for me. How do you describe majority? Pashtuns, have been the majority, according to various sources. The most prevalent being the following:

1. Wak foundation in 1999 after a six years survey and reserch concluded that there are 62.73 Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

2. Afghanistan by Max Clumborg 1960, states the percentage of Pashtuns to 60%.

3. Fundamentalism reborn? Afghanistan and the taleban by Wilam Maley, London 1998. Pashtuns 62.73

4. The world geoethnology, Academic research by M Mahjub and F Yawari, 5th ed 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 60%

5. The world population. Prof C. I. Brok, 1981 USSR. Pashtuns 52.8%.

6. Afghanistan. Prof M Ali. Kabul 1955. Pashtuns 60%.

7. The National Language of Afghanistan. Prof Aslanov 1964 USSR. Pashtuns 60%.

8. Afghanistan Federation System. M Enam Wak. 2000 Pakistan. Pashtuns 62%

9. History & establishment of Afghanistan. Abdullah Ahmad Almir. 1980 Qattar - London. Pashtuns 58.7 %

10. Ibid. Abdul Azim Waylan. 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 70%.

So now if you want to turn a blind eye to your Persian brothers, who clearly state Pashtuns are the majority[70percent], that is fine. It's your free-will to not accept the aforementioned statistics, I will never force you to accept what I say. However, by barely refuting anything I stated, we aren't going anywhere. It's either you prove all 10 sources above are wrong, or you can simply state that you refuse to accept the truth. It's as simple as mentioned. I would even argue that Pashtuns have an extremely high birth rate as well, In fact, Afghanistan has one of the highest birth rates in the world, and most of that is because of Pashtuns. Every family I know, and I am sure you know of has 7 children, If not more. Those numbers add up, as I am sure you know since you are presently enrolled in a Math intensive major. Many Pashtuns, who have migrated to the North, have lost their language. In fact, even the Pashto speakers alone in the South are multiplying as we speak. I, like I have said many times before have nothing against Persians, or Persian-speakers. I just stated the obvious. Afghanistan's backbone is Pashtuns. From the founder, to it's defenders, however, I acknowledge something many refuse to acknowledge, I acknowledge that many, and I mean many Tajiks have spilled their blood for Afghanistan as well. It's their home as well, and It's their country as well. I am not someone who believes you should give up your language and roots, I respect Tajiks, and I respect Uzbeks. However, this is where the fine print come into practice, any Tajik or Uzbek who works against my people, would have to take me down first. I will defend my people, If a Tajik wishes ill for Pashto and Pashtuns, I have a problem. I similarly have problems with Pashtuns who spew nothing but hate about ordinary,peace-loving Punjabis and Tajiks. We are not maniacs Khidr, we are a peace-loving nation who want nothing but peace. If you press our wrong buttons, history says we will win and we will win until our last man drops, and we barely care about collateral damage. Our nang, religion, and namoos is of more value for us. So If you think by me stating these authoritative sources, I am attempting to downplay your role, think twice. I am very open-minded, however, accept us being higher in terms of population than you. Accept the obvious, there are more Pashtuns in the worlds, than there are people who refer to themselves as Tajiks. This is more like common sense in effect here. I completely understand that due to soviet war, British war, many Pashtuns have migrated, however, that does not mean we do not exist. We just joined our cousins on the other side of the imaginary line, and left our soldiers to do the leg-work for us. It's not like we ran away, take a look the battle-ground of any war, all you will hear is Pashto. Hell, watch Rambo, even all Russian, and American movies revolve around Pashto, since it's the language of the battle-fields. Now whether I am fan of the war, or not a fan of the war, that is my political opinion, which I keep to myself, and I quite frankly don't feel like sharing it. Oh and as far as your videos is concerned, lol, that made me sort of smirk a smile because a few gentlemen stated exactly what I did now. If you understand Pashto, and if you watched all parts of the program, you would know what I mean. He clearly stated if we look at the past, we can see what the truth is. The gentleman also stated one ethnic group has a higher population than the other, and that is a fact.
Common sense tell us, without a census, we can't confirm things. However, we can analyze and take a look at prior censuses which tell us 1 thing --Pashtuns are majority. For a parliamentarian to quote decade old sources means he might not get voted into office again. For us students, who have the ability to analyze, we can read data and understand the following:
If according to more than 10 sources, Pashtuns are the majority, and since we know Pashtuns have a high birth rate, with the aforementioned stipulations, we can conclude that Pashtuns are still higher in terms of population when compared to any other ethnic group.

Please don't forget the offical afghanistan census in 1979, Pashtuns 65 %.

[Khidr]

Dear Beradar e Gerami Admin Khan,

Thanks for your kind wishes and I hope all is well with yourself and your respected family. I will be more than glad to respond to you and debate this issue in a constructive way. First and foremost, I will address your sources, before giving you my sources and finally addressing the many fundamental differences between our perspectives on the issue of what exactly is the identity of the country that we both call home - Afghanistan.


I will acknowledge the one area that we agree on, there has never been a credible and apolitical census conducted in Afghanistan. It is merely a case of my ‘sources’ against yours and my interpretation against yours.

Now, as for your sources.

• 1. Wak foundation in 1999 after a six years survey and reserch concluded that there are 62.73 Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

This is the only survey you have posted. The rest were books which would have had their own sources behind their estimates.

This survey was not conducted by an ‘independent’ organisation as you claim. Wak Foundation was the foundation created by Mr Amin Wakman. Former head of Afghan Millat. This is a clear conflict of interest and although it may not disqualify it for a Pashtunist seeking legitimisation of his political claims, it does disqualify it from being taken seriously by an impartial observer seeking to satisfy his intellectual curiosity.

• 2. Afghanistan by Max Clumborg 1960, states the percentage of Pashtuns to 60%.

The source states that this book was written in 1960. This was the time when the Afghan Governments under a staunch Pashtunist Daud Khan’s official position was that Pashtuns form an absolute majority. All government departments promoted this estimate that Pashtuns are between 55-70% of Afghanistan.

Furthermore upon “goggling” the author, no mention of his book can be found to verify Mr “Max Clumborg’s” existence let alone his sources. All one finds is that this source is widely referenced by Pashtuns in this precise debate.

• 3. Fundamentalism reborn? Afghanistan and the taleban by Wilam Maley, London 1998. Pashtuns 62.73

This is a very interesting one. I hope you were not behind this forgery but merely copied and pasted someone else's claims. No where in the book does it put the Pashtun population at 62.73 as reference contends. It states “ethnic Pashtuns are estimated to account for between 40 per cent to 60 percent”.

A attachment of the screenshot of the quote from google books is attached. Here is also the link: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...n%2060&f=false

The claim on your/author's part that the book specifically states Pashtuns are 62.73% appears to be a blatant case of academic falsification and vandalism (to put it nicely) which would cast serious doubt on the credibility of all your/author's other “sources” and your ability to remain objective and credible.

• 4. The world geoethnology, Academic research by M Mahjub and F Yawari, 5th ed 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 60%

As for the research by my “Persian brothers” I cannot find any verification of their existence of "my persian brothers" on google to verify their claim and the sources for it. The reliability of their claim will be contingent upon their sources.

• 5. The world population. Prof C. I. Brok, 1981 USSR. Pashtuns 52.8%.

No proof of this publication or Mr “Brok” can be found. See my discussion on number 7 as far as the reliability of a Soviet academic is concerned.

• 6. Afghanistan. Prof M Ali. Kabul 1955. Pashtuns 60%.

This was conducted in 1955 Kabul. A time which was the height of the Pashtunization Policy, a time where all publications printed inside Afghanistan had to go through the Department of Culture, a time where famous academic works like “Afghanistan in the Course of History” by the late Mir Ghulam Mohmad Ghobar were banned by the department.

• 7. The National Language of Afghanistan. Prof Aslanov 1964 USSR. Pashtuns 60%.

Once again 1964. No proof of the author or publication can be found so I can try to trace the sources. One would also have to judge the context of this publication. A Publication printed in the old Soviet Union, at a time where Afghan and Soviet Relations were at its closest, where any publication by any Soviet academic had to be carefully vetted by the Communist apparatus.’

• 8. Afghanistan Federation System. M Enam Wak. 2000 Pakistan. Pashtuns 62%

Once again, relative of Amin Wakman, former head of Afghan Millat. Enough said.

• 9. History & establishment of Afghanistan. Abdullah Ahmad Almir. 1980 Qattar - London. Pashtuns 58.7 %

No existence of publication or author can be found. Author appears Afghan/Pashtun. Highly unreliable unless proof of existence of publication can be found and the sources behind the estimate can be read.

• 10. Ibid. Abdul Azim Waylan. 1987 Iran. Pashtuns 70%.

Same as above.


Admin Khan,

Out of the 10 sources you presented:

1 was a survey which you said was conducted by an “independent organisation” but infact was conducted by a foundation created by the former head of Afghan Millat, Amin Wakman.

1 was publication was authored by a relative of Amin Wakman who merely sourced the survey conducted by his foundation to support his ideological beliefs.

1 was a case of pure academic forgery and which contended that the book said Pashtuns form 62.73% whereas in fact the author stated somewhere between “40% to 60%.” One can only speculate on the reliability of the other sources (if they actually do exist) given the blatant forgery of this one.

The existence of the other 5-6 authors and their publications in your source cannot be verified. A few were printed inside Afghanistan (based on your claim of their dates and locations) during a pro-Pashtun dictatorship and in a heavily censored academic environment of 1950’s to 1980’s. Others were also authored by suspected Afghans/Pashtuns whose impartiality would be heavily questioned and would require the disclosure of their sources.

[Khidr]

The general position of “Afghan” politicians and general level headed “Afghans,” as well as Afghanistan observers, from Hamid Karzai to Ahmed Rashid to Barnet Rubin to Qudos so n so, is that Afghanistan is a country of minorities. There is no single absolute majority.


I will not cite the estimates of Encyclopaedia Iranica of my “Persian brothers” which stated Tajiks at 39% and Pashtuns at 40%. I believe the most reliable and objective sources we can go by today is the statistically accurate surveys conducted by private American organisations prior to the presidential elections last year. Here is what they found, you can find the sources in Wikipedia. It must be noted that one of the surveys excluded Zabul and Urozgan, which it disclosed and stated that it accounted to an additional 1% towards Pashtun numbers.

Ethnic group

"Afghanistan: Where Things Stand" (2004-2009)[203]

"A survey of the Afghan people" (2006)[202]

Pashtun

38-46%

41%

Tajik

37-39%

37%

Hazara

6-13%

9%

Uzbek

5-7%

9%

Aimak

0-0%

0%

Turkmen

1-2%

2%

Baloch

1-3%

1%

Others (Nuristani, Arab, etc.)

0-4%

1%

No opinion

0-2%

0%

These numbers are far more representative to anyone with an open-mind who has interacted with the “Afghan” communities in the west and gone to Afghanistan. I would go on to state 4-5% of the “Pashtuns” are not in fact Pashtuns but are Tajiks who have called themselves Pashtun for political and social reasons.

With the benefit of education and a greater cultural and social awareness of their real ethnicity and the demise of the old apartheid Pashtunist system, I have no doubt that the majority of these so called “Pashtuns” will come out proudly as Tajiks.

It was Tajiks who called for a census during Grand Coucil in 2001, but Pashtun were against it. There is a reason for this.

[Admin Khan]

Dear Khdir,

like I said before, and I will say it again. These type of discussions that we are having right now are completely useless, to say the least. I can provide you a handful of sources, including the official census which claim Pashtuns are the majority and you will dismiss them all with your logical reasoning. I will call your sources biased, and you will call my sources biased, and we will continue going in a circle without any ending. However, one thing which I am sure you agree with me on is that there are more Pashtuns than Tajiks. Again, so useless to even mention. Most of those articles are available for Universities, and they can be found in your local library. If you really want to view them, I can try to use my resources and have them scanned for you. Not everything is indexed in Google, so just because it doesn't show in a Google listing doesn't mean it does not exist or if it was not published. The thing is, you will consider my sources as being biased, since you have a predetermined answer in your head already, I am just offering my dos pesos which you may or may not conform too, and that is perfectly reasonable and understandable. However, We need to realize that this discussion is futile, and It's not contributing to the motherland at all. Nevertheless, what I want to make clear here is that I have no problems with Tajiks, Punjabis or Uzbeks. My stance is very simple, and I will make it clear here. If, and only if, a Tajik is qualified to be a foreign minister, I have no problem. If he will treat Pashto and Dari equally, and if he will treat Pashtuns just like how we will treat Tajiks, why even bother opposing him? We are all humans afterall. I mean, are you aware as to how similar Pashtuns and Tajiks are? People make us seem like as if we are as different as Africans and Chinese but in reality, we are pretty close as far our blood line and history goes. The main point is as follows: I, by using common sense, can conclude that since Pashtuns have been awarded the title of being the majority in the 70-80's, and since Pashtuns have a high birth rate, I will argue that they are still the majority, unless there was a holocaust committed. Oh not that us being the majority makes us any better anyway. It redundant and futile to discuss such useless topics considering our present conditions in Afghanistan. It doesn't make business sense, as a store manager would say. We as Pashtuns have to understand that we can not shove Pashto down your throat, the same way you have already understood that you cant shove Dari down our throat. Both languages should be taught, and both languages should be learned. It's really shame Khidr, shame on you, and shame on me. New York City speaks 800 languages, and here we are having problems with just 2 languages, Pashto and Dari. I mean, It's really simple, we need leaders that don't serve foreign agendas that are usually interest-driven[corruption]. If Tajiks aren't on a power trip in a Loya Jirga, I have no objections to their presence. I want my our fair share in the government, and our fair representation in the media and economical affairs. Extremists exist on both sides, there are Tajik extremists who are upset that the military ranks of the Afghan Army are in Pashto, how the anthem is in Pashto, how the parliament and all other official wordings are in Pashto. It's just useless to mention such things because Pashto is not your enemy, the same way I have told others Farsi, German, and French is not our enemy. The more languages we learn, the more successful we are. By giving a language a cold-shoulder, that someone is insulting an entire ethnic group who speaks that language, and that is usually where the problem arises. So Khidr, Pashtuns are not your enemies. We only have problems with those people who insult us, who refuse to recognize Pashto as a national language, and who obviously wish ill upon us.

P.S
The reason why Pashtuns were against a census was because most our population is displaced due to the present war, according to Pakistani sources, there are millions of Pashtuns of Afghanistan currently residing in Pakistan. A census would unfortunately not include those people, even though they were supposed to. A census requires a lot of thinking before it's carried out.

[Khidr]

Afghanistan's backbone is Pashtuns. From the founder, to it's defenders, however, I acknowledge something many refuse to acknowledge

This one sentence exactly describes why I consider our differences (as Tajiks and Pashtuns) to be irreconcilable and fundamental.

Afghanistan is a 100 year old country. The piece of land called Afghanistan didn’t fall from the sky. It has a history before the Durrani Empire or the creation of the modern state of Afghanistan by British and Tzarist Russia.

The Durrani Empire was a 20 year old empire. The so called “founder” of your Afghanistan never once mentioned his empire as Afghanistan, in his autobiography, “Tarikh e Ahmad Shahi” in his own words he referred to himself as Amir of Khurasaan!

When The Durrani empire fell. Present day Afghanistan was separated into four regions for the next 150 years. Herat belonged to Barakzais. Kabul to Kabulified Popalzai and then to Kabulfied Barzakzai until 1800’s. The Kabul kings referred to themselves as Amir of Khurasan until late 19th century(Read Temor Shah’s famous poems). North of Kabul to Amu Darya was ruled by autonomous regional families who played both the Amirs of Bokhara and Amirs of Kabul so to remain independent.

Abdur Rahman Khan and his father Afzal Khan were chased by rival groups and they sought refuge in Mazar-i-Sharif. They remained untouched there, since they had the protection of the local leaders.

As for your claim that Pashtun are “defenders of Afghanistan” let me say, the British walked through Khyber, the British walked and camped in Jallalabad. The British walked through Kandahar and camped there. They captured Kabul because the Pashtun areas let them through. The British made many encroachments north of Kabul but could not capture one town north of Kabul.

Mir Bacha Khan Koh Damani, Mir Masjeedi Khan Kohistani, Mir Jalalander Khan, did not let the British step one foot north of Kabul in both their incursions into Kabul, they may not have been acknowledged by the apartheid Pashtunist governments in comparison to Wazir Akbar Khan and Ayub, but their sacrifice and chivalry was no less in fact I would argue much more since they did not seek political power in response for defending their lands!

Afghanistan was born and is a child of the politics of the time, when the British and Tzarist Russia decided to have a buffer zone. The British armed Abdur Rahman in exchange for his obedience to British India. Your Afghanistan was born on the same day that the Durrand Line was drawn and the northern and western borders were drawn.

This is a historical fact!

However, this is where the fine print come into practice, any Tajik or Uzbek who works against my people, would have to take me down first. I will defend my people, If a Tajik wishes ill for Pashto and Pashtuns, I have a problem.

I agree and feel the same. The issue is now what how do we define “working against my people.”

To me, and 99.999% of other Tajiks, a Pashtun is working against our people when he:

a) Seeks to imprison us in an apartheid state called Loy-Afghanistan
b) Calls us minority in our own land
c) States they have more right to our lands
d) Dictates what we call our language
e) Dictates what words we use in our language
f) Forcefully acquires our land
g) I can go on and on...



Accept the obvious, there are more Pashtuns in the worlds, than there are people who refer to themselves as Tajiks. We just joined our cousins on the other side of the imaginary line, and left our soldiers to do the leg-work for us.


I have no concern about how many Pashtun there are in this world. There were 20 million Serbs and 3 million Bosnians. It gave the Serbs no right to claim what wasn’t theirs! The Serbs tried to steal what wasn’t theirs with their “Greater Serbia” and today with Kosovo they actually lost what was in fact theirs.

I just cannot, and will never accept a myth that Pashtuns are an absolute majority. Furthermore I I would rather end in up in a mass grave then be a prisoner in my own ancient land.

I have nothing against you doing Attan with your Pakistani Pashtuns brothers in your Pashtun state with capital of Peshawar or Kandadar, but I have everything against you doing Attan in my Kabul/Herat/Shamali/Balkh/Badakshaan with your Pakistani brothers.

Nobody is against your unification with your cousins from the other side of the “imaginary line.” But over 9 million Tajiks are against you stealing what is not yours and incorporating it into your Loy-Afghanistan.

This issue is the root cause of our problems. Pashtuns preach Loy-Afghanistan and Tajiks reject the idea of them and their lands being incorporated into a Pashtun state.

[Manzareh]

See, this is the problem, Khidr has stepped out (rightfully) and pointed out that Afghanistan is not a Pashtun country or atleast will never except that it is, him and 99.9999999% of other Tajiks as he states. He has no problem in you saying Pashtun areas are 'Afghanistan as a Pashtun country' but justly points out that Pashtuns have no right in saying 'Kabul/Herat/Shamali/Balkh/Badakshaan' are part of a 'Pashtun Country' (all major citys in Afghansitan)..he doesnt even recognise the name of afghanistan or agrees with it, Admin and all others, you have to ask yourself is this the view of one man? i think not, i think hes speaking unanimously not only for all Tajiks but all other minoritys in Afghanistan. Admin to someone like me you can point the conversation in the direction that your up for a Pashtun Country but when it comes to speaking to a non Pashtun you have no option but to proclaim "how similar Pashtuns and Tajiks are" and "Both languages should be taught, and both languages should be learned" (quoted by you) why then do people have a problem with Pashtuns learning Urdu or Punjabi??..yes i mind the pashtun tounge being reshaped to suit Urdu and Dari but someone with your view on us clearly doesnt, with all due respect doesnt this alone conclude that aslong as we have people with your frame of mind we will never have a pure pashtun country??

Khidr i have simple question for you. Do you consider Tajikistan your motherland? if not then why.