hunting anyone?

[Tor Gul]

Then why is it in sports?

because most western cultures call it a sport and i wasn't sure where to put it

sports are a survival necessity?

as a matter of fact sports= play which is important to human mental health, w/o some form of play mental health deteriorates

This is a red herring; what do animals instinctual survival mechanisms have to do with deliberate human killing?

animals cannot & will not regulate themselves. they will not stop having babies because the range is over grazed & predators will not stop eating deer or rabbits because their population has crashed. pretending that they do is attempting to humanize/deitize them in the Hindi fashion.

Therefore you already affirmed my response; this is recreational.

enjoying an activity does not make it less necessary, by that line of thought people should only work jobs they hate

That's how most population cycles regulate; let their own natural selection process take course..

nice cherry picking, as i stated the mass die offs are from disease & starvation neither of which is pleasant. if you believe we have a moral imperative to minimize the suffering of animals in raising & slaughter. how then do we not have a moral obligation to regulate wildlife & minimize their sufferring from disease & starvation. I can assure you my knife is far more humane than weeks of starvation & the misery of disease

Allah(swt) also said that animals are to be respected, and deliberately trying to injury makes the meat harram and killing it without the dhabiha process makes it harram. The only instance it would be halal is if it is for subsistence. which being that you have the amenities of modern society, clearly you're not on the brink of starvation.

you don't know my finances or the local economy where i'm at, nor will I go into detail except to say the money i save by taking wild meat is a tremendous blessing.

That's exactly why we shouldn't because by doing so we're disrupting the ecological equilibrium.

I'll say it again there is NO equilibrium in wildlife, that is a myth created by animal rights whackos to support their personal objections to hunting. our grandfathers in the USA nearly wiped out most of the predators so even that argument is flawed. additionally the amount of urban & suburban developement means there is limited space where the native animal predators can safely coexist with people. lastly your argument here falsely assumes people are seperate from & not part of the ecosystem.

That argument has been debunked for decades, you're not the first to make such a claim. Since, we're at the higher peaks of the evolutionary model we no longer require such predatory behavior thus holds no evolutionary merit.

that argument has only been "debunked" by animal rights whackos. the entire scientific & medical community is in aggreement than human beings are designed to be predators & eat animals. it is a medical fact that at least 99% of human beings NEED some meat to maintain optimum health. it is a fact of biological science that the most intelligent animals are predatory carnivores. ending that means climbing DOWN the evolutionary ladder.
that is assuming you believe in evilution. as I believe we are a creation of god evilution argument hold little weight w/ me.

you have your reasons for not hunting & eating meat and that's fine I don't expect to change your feelings nor will i make a judgement on your morality or intelligence based upon them. all i ask is the same courtesy.

[Tor Gul]

they need to get hala the islamic way after shot.
unless you kill it with the bullet,which i assume is no more halal.

that is why the saluki/tazi is exempt from dogs being haram. that way the animals they catch can still be halal. and since they are generally alive when caught you can halal them correctly.

[Tor Gul]

It's a very noble decision, albeit not an easy one to take.

Do you eat tofu and drink soy milk?

I enjoy eating such products, once in a while.
I like the taste and it makes me feel good about myself.

keep it once in a while, too much soy causes high estrogen (female hormone). but don't take my word, google it.

[IamDZJ]

you whisper allahuakbar unless you miss your aim.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

keep it once in a while, too much soy causes high estrogen (female hormone). but don't take my word, google it.

Yeah, I know about that :/

[Afghanistan2010]

If its alive and not dead,and you slaughter it with bismillah it is halal.

[Tor Gul]

Winter survival,getting meat,we hunt rabbits.

I thought rabbits were haram. my khowonkee will not eat them.

[Afghanistan2010]

Question

Is eating of rabbit prohibited?


Answer


Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Basically all animals are Halal except those that are made unlawful in Shari'a.
Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I find not in that which has been inspired to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maytatah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork, etc.) for that surely is impure, …} [6: 145].
The Hadith establishes a rule concerning the birds and animals that are Haram, the Hadith reads: "Eating of all fanged beasts of prey, and all the birds having talons is forbidden" . [Reported by Imam Muslim ]. Therefore, eating a rabbit is permissible, and it is proved in Sahihain that "The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) and his companions ate its meat" .
Rabbit is Halal and no one from Muslim scholars opposed this ruling.
Allah knows best.

[Afghanistan2010]

The one who told you it is haram,had no knowledge of islam.
And a person can not declare anything halal or haram unless it is made lawful or unlawful by Allah the most high.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

The one who told you it is haram,had no knowledge of islam.
And a person can not declare anything halal or haram unless it is made lawful or unlawful by Allah the most high.

Rabbit is one of the cleanest animals.

I also eat it sometimes.

[Tor Gul]

Question

Is eating of rabbit prohibited?


Answer


Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the World; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Basically all animals are Halal except those that are made unlawful in Shari'a.
Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I find not in that which has been inspired to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maytatah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork, etc.) for that surely is impure, …} [6: 145].
The Hadith establishes a rule concerning the birds and animals that are Haram, the Hadith reads: "Eating of all fanged beasts of prey, and all the birds having talons is forbidden" . [Reported by Imam Muslim ]. Therefore, eating a rabbit is permissible, and it is proved in Sahihain that "The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) and his companions ate its meat" .
Rabbit is Halal and no one from Muslim scholars opposed this ruling.
Allah knows best.

Der khuh manana
Thank you very much

i like the older ones stewed in tomatoes & peppers. i like the young ones grilled over an open fire. unfortunately my tazi is too old to catch them very often. but i raise a few behind my house. i spend about ten or 15 minutes every evening chopping weeds for them. they are very calming to take care of and easy to prepare for the table.

[Afghanistan2010]

Their flesh is so different than compared to other animals,but i hate the taking off the skin,have you tasted camel it has so hard flesh,while rabbat is soft but sometimes like rubber.

[Afghanistan2010]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8iYYfFBk5J4

[RevolutionThroughReason]

because most western cultures call it a sport and i wasn't sure where to put it

That just reinforces my point you don't need to do that.

as a matter of fact sports= play which is important to human mental health, w/o some form of play mental health deteriorates

Sure, there's no need to do that specifically this way. That's a red herring

and you were worried I'd be irrational? Those logical fallacies of yours are very irrational

animals cannot & will not regulate themselves. they will not stop having babies because the range is over grazed & predators will not stop eating deer or rabbits because their population has crashed. pretending that they do is attempting to humanize/deitize them in the Hindi fashion.

Straw man argument; there are naturally selective environment to organismal habitation sinks and sources.

I understand you've never actually studied Mathematical Principles of Population Dynamics of Ecological Systems, but I have., Your argument is not scientific by any stretch.

enjoying an activity does not make it less necessary, by that line of thought people should only work jobs they hate

It doesn't but because that you admitted your motive is enjoyment is and not necessity, this nullifies the claim

nice cherry picking, as i stated the mass die offs are from disease & starvation neither of which is pleasant. if you believe we have a moral imperative to minimize the suffering of animals in raising & slaughter. how then do we not have a moral obligation to regulate wildlife & minimize their sufferring from disease & starvation. I can assure you my knife is far more humane than weeks of starvation & the misery of disease

Well you're the one who played off of the Islamic Moral/Ethical Paradigm; if you do then yes it does become a moral imperative as this is actually enshrined in the Islamic Religion. The cherry picking seems to be yours; use Islam to justify your selfish desires, but disregard it when it it condemns them.

As for Secular or Scientific based moral imperative; we have an ethical imperative based on the same evolutionarily adapted tendencies and how organisms , including humans develop a niche in their environment to use those resources correctly in that context. Your sport game hunting is outside that context.

you don't know my finances or the local economy where i'm at, nor will I go into detail except to say the money i save by taking wild meat is a tremendous blessing.

You have the internet and regular access to it, that indicates the relative economic conditions in your environment, especially considering you're living in the West as indicated by your earlier remark.

I'll say it again there is NO equilibrium in wildlife, that is a myth created by animal rights whackos to support their personal objections to hunting. our grandfathers in the USA nearly wiped out most of the predators so even that argument is flawed. additionally the amount of urban & suburban developement means there is limited space where the native animal predators can safely coexist with people. lastly your argument here falsely assumes people are seperate from & not part of the ecosystem.

Not true, the concept of niches, symbiosis are established in all ecological text books. The acts of humans over doing something corresponds with the anthropogenic reduction in habitability known as the environmental crisis we have today.

that argument has only been "debunked" by animal rights whackos. the entire scientific & medical community is in aggreement than human beings are designed to be predators & eat animals. it is a medical fact that at least 99% of human beings NEED some meat to maintain optimum health. it is a fact of biological science that the most intelligent animals are predatory carnivores. ending that means climbing DOWN the evolutionary ladder.
that is assuming you believe in evilution. as I believe we are a creation of god evilution argument hold little weight w/ me.

Not just "Animal Rights" Whackos, but Organismal Biologists who study biodiversity, Environmental Analysts,

No "scientific or medical" opinion argue that humans are ""designed" to be predators. The Scientific Community shun the argument of "design". We evolved, but evolutionary biologists Predatory behavior is only one survival strategy for humans, but not an exclusive or even necessary one. There a concept called Optimal Urgency, where certain patterns of predatory behavior in animal species, including humans change in strategy based on availability of alternative resources.

you have your reasons for not hunting & eating meat and that's fine I don't expect to change your feelings nor will i make a judgement on your morality or intelligence based upon them. all i ask is the same courtesy.

You're being irrational and presenting a straw man argument; I am not against hunting, read clearly, We're against recreational hunting, you're doing it for recreation, there is no necessity for you to hunt, you clearly do not live in an environment where food sources are limited. Your motives are unethical, selfish and most of all violate Islam., the very thing you tried to springboard for legitimacy.

[Tor Gul]

Well you're the one who played off of the Islamic Moral/Ethical Paradigm; if you do then yes it does become a moral imperative as this is actually enshrined in the Islamic Religion. The cherry picking seems to be yours; use Islam to justify your selfish desires, but disregard it when it it condemns them.

EXCUSE YOU, at no time did I EVER claim Islam for justification of any sort. I am extremely offended that you would attempt to redirect the discussion in that manner. If you genuinely believe that, then you need to go take your ADHD meds and read again.

That just reinforces my point you don't need to do that.

because i didn't know which forum was best suited for the thread that means i have no need to engage in hunting, that is the MOST ASSININE leap of logic i've ever seen.

Straw man argument; there are naturally selective environment to organismal habitation sinks and sources.

I understand you've never actually studied Mathematical Principles of Population Dynamics of Ecological Systems, but I have., Your argument is not scientific by any stretch.

It is not a required course in my Wildlife Management curriculum. However what I've read of it does not preclude human management. Further nothing that does take a hands off view is taken seriously by wildlife management professionals, particularly in view of the abysmal results of attempts to take a hands off approach. Every example of hands off management has had horrific results for wildlife, people & the environment. If you need example checkout the results of California's mountain lion problem since hunting them was banned, Florida & New Jersey's bear problems, Yellowatone wolves or perhaps Kenya's elephant issue.
All hands off views are emotionally driven with no basis in sound science.

It doesn't but because that you admitted your motive is enjoyment is and not necessity, this nullifies the claim.

No that is your claim, I claim to enjoy a necessary activity.

As for Secular or Scientific based moral imperative; we have an ethical imperative based on the same evolutionarily adapted tendencies and how organisms , including humans develop a niche in their environment to use those resources correctly in that context. Your sport game hunting is outside that context.

Yes, and most human niches have been highly destructive to wildlife w/o any mitigating controls, for example market hunting in America (subsistance hunting on a social level) extincted or nearly extincted dozens of species & the legal ivory trade of the 19th century did horrific damage to the african elephant populations. Subsistance hunting by primative nomads, as people normally think of it, is believed in the scientific community to have extincted native wild horses & mammoths in north america, moas in new zealand and several large marsupials in australia.
Although I don't consider my hunting a sport like say Wuzloba or cricket, lets talk for a second about "sport" hunting. Sport hunting is the only "type" that has actively sought to limit any adverse impact and has funded the recovery & protection of species & habitats.
By comparison the hands off management of elephants by the total ban of legal hunting (both sport & subsistance) in Kenya has resulted in the complete deforestation & denuding of thousands of square miles of grass & scrub land. this devastation has caused the collapse of coexistant herbivore populations. the elephants have destroyed millions of dollars worth of food crops leaving the rural villages entirely dependant on humanitarian food aid mostly from the USA. ONLY after the very real threat of widespread death from elephant caused famine did the Kenyan government begin culling the elephant population so that the land & other animal populations could recover.

You have the internet and regular access to it, that indicates the relative economic conditions in your environment, especially considering you're living in the West as indicated by your earlier remark.

you're either ignorant of American society & economy, or you're being willfully misleading. because our public libraries offer free use of computers with internet even people that live on park benches and sleep in cardboard boxes "have internet." I happen to be using a government owned laptop provided for my government run class on the Pashtu language. I do my posting mostly during breaks. further, the cost of factory farmed meat is so high, that for a month's worth of meat for my family of 6, I could pay for 3-6 months of internet. likewise for the cost of 2 months worth of meat, I can buy a hunting license & gas to go kill a deer here in Utah and get about 4-8 months worth of meat. before the economy crapped out that same amount of money would have allowed me to go down to northern arizona and kill enough wild boar to feed my family, my dogs, my wife's brothers' families and a couple of neighbors for a year.

Not true, the concept of niches, symbiosis are established in all ecological text books. The acts of humans over doing something corresponds with the anthropogenic reduction in habitability known as the environmental crisis we have today.

I won't repeat everything i've said above about the adverse consequences of failing to act. I will say that the failure of our grandfathers to limit their adverse impact by direct action does NOT in any way make acceptable the equally damaging impact of failing to act which you have espoused as the ideal management technique.

Not just "Animal Rights" Whackos, but Organismal Biologists who study biodiversity, Environmental Analysts,

No "scientific or medical" opinion argue that humans are ""designed" to be predators. The Scientific Community shun the argument of "design". We evolved, but evolutionary biologists Predatory behavior is only one survival strategy for humans, but not an exclusive or even necessary one. There a concept called Optimal Urgency, where certain patterns of predatory behavior in animal species, including humans change in strategy based on availability of alternative resources.

now your just spouting nonsense. whether you believe the design was performed by evilution or a deity is immaterial. the fact is our structure is optimized for predatory function and no legitimate biological scientist will dispute this. we have forward facing binocular vision like a bear. our eyes are tuned to movement more than color & shape like a cougar. we have moderately good sense of smell like a lion. we have an extremely well developed cardiovascular system designed for endurance running like a wolf. we have a dental structure that combines meat shearing incissors, cuspids & bicuspids w/ all purpose grinding molars, almost identical to a chimpanzee. our gastrointestinal tract produces strong stomach acids & enzymes that disolve fresh meat and kill a lot of bacteria, but not as strong as the acids & enzymes in true scavengers which destroy the bacteria and toxins in really rancid meat.
while it is true that in our modern societies & cities most people are scavengers living off the meat other people kill, not every person is content to be a scavenger. additionally acting the part of a scavenger does not automatically change your structure to make you one (a lion can scavenge his whole life but he'll never grow wings & become a vulture).
and don't think being a vegetarian exempts you from killing animals, dozens to hundreds of animals are killed in order to produce & protect crops so you can be a vegetarian and pretend to moral superiority.

I am not against hunting, read clearly, We're against recreational hunting, you're doing it for recreation, there is no necessity for you to hunt, you clearly do not live in an environment where food sources are limited. Your motives are unethical, selfish and most of all violate Islam., the very thing you tried to springboard for legitimacy.

only a fool would let his children walk naked or live on the street so he could buy the food he can get for free. again that claim is entirely in your own twisted mind & offends me greatly.