Question for Pakhtuns of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa?

[graveyardofempires]

Khushal wrora
pre yee da hagha ar se pe set gorey
da de dey khabera shwa "you criticise them blindly"
dey na da mathlab shoo che hagha da tol wakht ya kho woede woo aw ya pe kom Island ke woseydo.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Khushala, I always welcome criticism on the country where I live .. Don't take me wrong but if you will make everything personal than there is a problem

GOE: Zargiya, da kho khkaara da che sok woda wo !! You can re-read mine and your posts on the vary same topic No further off-topic discussion, Regards

[graveyardofempires]

Khushala, I always welcome criticism on the country where I live .. Don't take me wrong but if you will make everything personal than there is a problem

GOE: Zargiya, da kho khkaara da che sok woda wo !! You can re-read mine and your posts on the vary same topic No further off-topic discussion, Regards

wrek sha premedey noo
te se raqam be ghairatha pukhtun yee

[Shehbaz Khan]

wrek sha premedey noo
te se raqam be ghairatha pukhtun yee

Sa hagha be-ghairatha pukhtun yam who will never cross the line of respect !! Manana !!

[graveyardofempires]

Sa hagha be-ghairatha pukhtun yam who will never cross the line of respect !! Manana !!

te dey ta respect wey che de haghey khalko chamchagarey kay che pukhtane wajney?

te dey ekhpel pak army aw pakistaniyath ekhpel zaan sara wesatha
matha de tashrey kaweloo koshesh mekawa kela che te de pukhtano dushmanano malgeray yee.manena

[Shehbaz Khan]

^

[khushal]

Shabahza,
What are you talking about. Personal? blindly?
Dont get upset by facts, embrace them.

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ I embrace each fact but today the policies of Pakistan aren't only Punjos as you call them Pakhtuns does have their due share !!

[graveyardofempires]

shehbaz janan se haal rawan dey
te kho os ham de dunya na ne yee khabar
khair dey jahalath se guna ne da.

Allah de wubakha

[khushal]

^ I embrace each fact but today the policies of Pakistan aren't only Punjos as you call them Pakhtuns does have their due share !!

so what your saying is that it was the pashtuns decision to destroy swat and bomb their fellow brethrens in FATA. It was the pashtuns decision to displace millions of their people and have them live in misery.
It is the pashtuns decision to allow Us drones to strike their own people.

Your saying that the pashtuns are so kind to the panjos that all the reward should go to the panjos while the pashtuns burn on both sides of the durand. I can go on and on about these sellouts.

[salahuddin]

I do not think its constructive nor beneficial for Pashtuns of KP to join a Afghanistan run by the likes of Taliban and Alqaeda.

Plus, the unification of KP with Afghanistan will cause civil war in Afghanistan by greedy minorities who want to hold onto total power.

Its best Pashtuns decide on their own fate and produce their own state.

There is no point is claiming to hold onto deserted land in Afghanistan.

[Shehbaz Khan]

so what your saying is that it was the pashtuns decision to destroy swat and bomb their fellow brethrens in FATA. It was the pashtuns decision to displace millions of their people and have them live in misery.
It is the pashtuns decision to allow Us drones to strike their own people.

So are you denying it? Are you denying the fact that the assembly of KPK voted for those operations? ARe you denying the fact that many of the Pakhtuns in National assembly voted for these things ?
Pregada mara, plus where are you from are you from KPK living in KPK If yes than this topic is asking you something else this topic isn't connected to you !!

Your saying that the pashtuns are so kind to the panjos that all the reward should go to the panjos while the pashtuns burn on both sides of the durand. I can go on and on about these sellouts.

Gora khabari dieri aao sir ye yao day!! Aao khabara dagha da che da Pakhtun pa di tabahai ki tolo na zyat qasor war Pakhtun khpala day !!

[Alchemist]

I never had a strong opinion about pashtuns in FATA and NWFP until now. I am an Afghan and what you may call tajik,( though in reality have never had ancestors that lived in Tajikistan) and I speak the dari language, so be forwarned paki pashtuns won't like what I have to say.
Reading the comments in this thread it seems that the pakistani pashtuns are the weaker ones since they were originally subjugated by the brits ...and even a hundred years ago their role in the greater struggle for independence has been bare minimum and not worth a review. The stronger pashtuns, to escape the manipulative clutches of the west, for the past 100 hundred years has had to take refugee in Afghanistan...take Bacha khan for example who had to live his last days in Afghanistan because he could easily get arrested by "the authorities". Then when I look at Pakistan, and its people, I see nothing but a people awash with hallow ideals. They have no culture of their own, no history of their own... everything that is pakistani revolves around mythical heroes like "Qaida Azzam" ( Amazing Leader) who was nothing more than a booth licking lawyer...and like wise, the institutions of the pakistani government, from the education system to the election and economic system, military system is a direct copy of the british model so it is of little surprise that every pakistani is a cultural slave of british ideals. And even though they boast of having a great country, how many pakis do you see living in the west? We Afghans have turned into a diaspora because of the war...what is their excuse for leaving their country in the millions?
Sure Afghanistan has been a failed state...and you can't fail any more than Afghanistan as a state. But at the same time, even given the misery that is Afghanistan, after the fall of the taliban, millions of Afghans left Pakistan for Afghanistan because ..at the end of the day their country was their country. Even though Afghans have a right to move freely in and out of Pakistan as they have for thousands of years, they never had to feel that they are guests in their own houses until this thing called pakistan came along. The way Afghans got mistreated in Pakistan will not be forgotten easily and will not be forgiven either. Even now...there is an expiration date for Afghans living and studying in Pakistan that ends in 2012. We are getting kicked out of land that rightfully belongs to us.....by indians who became muslims by our efforts and got a nation of their own by our efforts. Still 4 million Afghans left Pakistan why? Is pakistan really that great as you say it is? Some moron pakistani (forgot his nickname) was posting pictures of pakistani bombs and planes and tanks as a way to show pride in his country...talk about over compensation. Other than it's military pakistan has nothing! What is pakistan famous for exporting? Sports goods and towels. Since 1990 PAkistan has purchased 30 Billion US dollars worth of arms and fighter plans and tanks...all on credit. They did this selling cotton yarns? No...it is actually the heroin trade that has been keeping it afloat. Go read the story of Brig. Imtiaz...it's all documented there.
And then pakistani pashtuns are happy that they have some pashtuns in pariliment...there are arabs in the Israelie Kennesit, does that mean arabs have equal representation in Israel? Is Pashto even considered a secondary national language? The Pakistanies have done well enough to claim our ancient culture as their own...they lost to the british and so they came to take what is ours and still are trying to take more from us. In another 100 years the difference between pashtuns in Afghanistan and those in Pakistan will become clear as night and day. Already most pashtuns in Pakistan feel more pakistani than Afghan...most speak more fluently urdu than pashto...toromana and baygham for instance prefer to quote urdu sources of bbc and I bet they are upto their eye balls with bollywood fantasies. Even the behaviour and attitudes of pashtuns in Pakistan have become more pakistani than pashtun. Go look at the afghans in Pakistan...you can spot their deterrent faces from a mile away.
Langauge, the only unifier, which gives access to a culture is being controlled in Pakistan by having an English based education system..and why I think we have so many vocal pashtuns from pakistan here (since this is all done in english anyway). And as state in other threads by other keen observers, the language of the courts sets the bar for the rest. Currently in Afghanistan more children are eager to learn and speak English because they want white collar jobs in urban settings, but Afghanistan won't be able to supply for that demand in another 40 years so most likely the prevailing language in Afghanistan will remain pashto given that the majority of the rural population speaks it...so officially Pashto has a higher status in Afghanistan than in Pakistan and therefore the culture is more accessible there than in Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan are a docile lot who can never fight for their own, rather they have been coxed to accept some cheap incentives for a fake identity. Most Pakistanies speak, walk and talk british. They have been subjugated and dominated by the west for over 300 years now. It is a small wonder that in it's half a century of existence it has gone over 5 military takeovers. Clearly, even the leadership in Pakistan views its own people in contempt and suspicion which is why no Pakistani can ever experience the western ideals that they strive, namely "independence" and "democracy". So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Pakistan is a lap dog of the west...because it's founder Jinnah was just that. Right now, Pakistan has no more sovereignty than Afghanistan has it's own. So before a Pakistani Pashtun puffs with pride with feelings of patriotism and nationalism, let him first look at the state of his people's affair. Why is the government of Pakistan sitting on the sideline and watching the US bomb innocent pashtuns in FATA and NWFP? If you look closely, the pakistani government, being raised british, is still playing the old colonial games on you...pitting the pashtuns in its army against the rebel balochies. Right now...slowly but systematically Pakistan's army is getting integrated into NATO as an extension ...to continue the old British "Forward Policy" of a hundred years ago. So in the grander scheme of things, as it stands before the real measure of success, from an islamic or even secular perspective, Afghanistan is morally and culturally superior to Pakistan. For all you pro pakistan pashtoons, let me make one thing clear - I am not worried about your dilemmas. You can't take the pashtuns of Afghanistan in a million years. Plus, you can't become a pakistani! Even if a lion is raised by sheeps from birth...one day it's innate and natural instincts as a lion will kick in. Right now, the so called "Pakistani Taliban", who are really pashtuns, are just starting to awaken to the reality of their situation ...and since NATO has no plans of leaving any time in the near future, the injustice will also grow in like proportion. For this and many other reasons, pashtuns in Pakistan are like the lost and helpless kid brother of Afghans who are only enjoying an illusion...a fantasy. Not just the pashtoons in Pakistan, the pretty much the entire globe which has fallen head over heals into the laps of multinational corporations and fumbling technocrats, that are obsessed with structure and methodology, over real social values and realities. The problem right now with the "educated" pakistani pashtuns is that they have fallen for the same trap...and foolishly think that their inflationary economics is self justified, and their half baked ideologies are enough excuse for their military excesses. The problem right now is that people are still speaking a 19th century vocabulary that includes flowery words like "democracy", "free markets", "Capitalism", "independence", "equality", "fraternity", "secularism" etc...but these words are totally divorced from their actions and the realities of the 21st century. Let these pakistani pashtuns continue to mimic the british...let them stutter and repeat like babes the words taught them by the anglos..in the end they are going to just lose themselves to the cultural mishmash produced by globalization. The only reason Afghans haven't given into the british raj from the beginning is because of Islam...pakistani pashtons on the other hand think the opposite...anyway I can go on and on about this. But like I said, I wasn't aware of this issue until I came to this site...before this for me, every pashtun was an afghan...I never considered a pakistani a pashtun or vice versa. If a pashtun ever told me he is pakistani...I'd think him to be severely confused and lost and in my heart, I'd blame his parents for not teaching him his history and language. Sometimes, I would think that he is just saying he is pakistani because he has the passport but doesn't really mean to be one...like I am a canadian because I am a resident here, but my answer to the common north american question "where are you from?" has always been "AFghanistan"...even though I wasn't even born there. I can't imagine why on earth a pashtun would say "Pakistani"...this is something I will never "understand"...
Salam

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I never had a strong opinion about pashtuns in FATA and NWFP until now. I am an Afghan and what you may call tajik,( though in reality have never had ancestors that lived in Tajikistan) and I speak the dari language, so be forwarned paki pashtuns won't like what I have to say.
Reading the comments in this thread it seems that the pakistani pashtuns are the weaker ones since they were originally subjugated by the brits ...and even a hundred years ago their role in the greater struggle for independence has been bare minimum and not worth a review. The stronger pashtuns, to escape the manipulative clutches of the west, for the past 100 hundred years has had to take refugee in Afghanistan...take Bacha khan for example who had to live his last days in Afghanistan because he could easily get arrested by "the authorities". Then when I look at Pakistan, and its people, I see nothing but a people awash with hallow ideals. They have no culture of their own, no history of their own... everything that is pakistani revolves around mythical heroes like "Qaida Azzam" ( Amazing Leader) who was nothing more than a booth licking lawyer...and like wise, the institutions of the pakistani government, from the education system to the election and economic system, military system is a direct copy of the british model so it is of little surprise that every pakistani is a cultural slave of british ideals. And even though they boast of having a great country, how many pakis do you see living in the west? We Afghans have turned into a diaspora because of the war...what is their excuse for leaving their country in the millions?
Sure Afghanistan has been a failed state...and you can't fail any more than Afghanistan as a state. But at the same time, even given the misery that is Afghanistan, after the fall of the taliban, millions of Afghans left Pakistan for Afghanistan because ..at the end of the day their country was their country. Even though Afghans have a right to move freely in and out of Pakistan as they have for thousands of years, they never had to feel that they are guests in their own houses until this thing called pakistan came along. The way Afghans got mistreated in Pakistan will not be forgotten easily and will not be forgiven either. Even now...there is an expiration date for Afghans living and studying in Pakistan that ends in 2012. We are getting kicked out of land that rightfully belongs to us.....by indians who became muslims by our efforts and got a nation of their own by our efforts. Still 4 million Afghans left Pakistan why? Is pakistan really that great as you say it is? Some moron pakistani (forgot his nickname) was posting pictures of pakistani bombs and planes and tanks as a way to show pride in his country...talk about over compensation. Other than it's military pakistan has nothing! What is pakistan famous for exporting? Sports goods and towels. Since 1990 PAkistan has purchased 30 Billion US dollars worth of arms and fighter plans and tanks...all on credit. They did this selling cotton yarns? No...it is actually the heroin trade that has been keeping it afloat. Go read the story of Brig. Imtiaz...it's all documented there.
And then pakistani pashtuns are happy that they have some pashtuns in pariliment...there are arabs in the Israelie Kennesit, does that mean arabs have equal representation in Israel? Is Pashto even considered a secondary national language? The Pakistanies have done well enough to claim our ancient culture as their own...they lost to the british and so they came to take what is ours and still are trying to take more from us. In another 100 years the difference between pashtuns in Afghanistan and those in Pakistan will become clear as night and day. Already most pashtuns in Pakistan feel more pakistani than Afghan...most speak more fluently urdu than pashto...toromana and baygham for instance prefer to quote urdu sources of bbc and I bet they are upto their eye balls with bollywood fantasies. Even the behaviour and attitudes of pashtuns in Pakistan have become more pakistani than pashtun. Go look at the afghans in Pakistan...you can spot their deterrent faces from a mile away.
Langauge, the only unifier, which gives access to a culture is being controlled in Pakistan by having an English based education system..and why I think we have so many vocal pashtuns from pakistan here (since this is all done in english anyway). And as state in other threads by other keen observers, the language of the courts sets the bar for the rest. Currently in Afghanistan more children are eager to learn and speak English because they want white collar jobs in urban settings, but Afghanistan won't be able to supply for that demand in another 40 years so most likely the prevailing language in Afghanistan will remain pashto given that the majority of the rural population speaks it...so officially Pashto has a higher status in Afghanistan than in Pakistan and therefore the culture is more accessible there than in Pakistan.
The people of Pakistan are a docile lot who can never fight for their own, rather they have been coxed to accept some cheap incentives for a fake identity. Most Pakistanies speak, walk and talk british. They have been subjugated and dominated by the west for over 300 years now. It is a small wonder that in it's half a century of existence it has gone over 5 military takeovers. Clearly, even the leadership in Pakistan views its own people in contempt and suspicion which is why no Pakistani can ever experience the western ideals that they strive, namely "independence" and "democracy". So it shouldn't come as a surprise that Pakistan is a lap dog of the west...because it's founder Jinnah was just that. Right now, Pakistan has no more sovereignty than Afghanistan has it's own. So before a Pakistani Pashtun puffs with pride with feelings of patriotism and nationalism, let him first look at the state of his people's affair. Why is the government of Pakistan sitting on the sideline and watching the US bomb innocent pashtuns in FATA and NWFP? If you look closely, the pakistani government, being raised british, is still playing the old colonial games on you...pitting the pashtuns in its army against the rebel balochies. Right now...slowly but systematically Pakistan's army is getting integrated into NATO as an extension ...to continue the old British "Forward Policy" of a hundred years ago. So in the grander scheme of things, as it stands before the real measure of success, from an islamic or even secular perspective, Afghanistan is morally and culturally superior to Pakistan. For all you pro pakistan pashtoons, let me make one thing clear - I am not worried about your dilemmas. You can't take the pashtuns of Afghanistan in a million years. Plus, you can't become a pakistani! Even if a lion is raised by sheeps from birth...one day it's innate and natural instincts as a lion will kick in. Right now, the so called "Pakistani Taliban", who are really pashtuns, are just starting to awaken to the reality of their situation ...and since NATO has no plans of leaving any time in the near future, the injustice will also grow in like proportion. For this and many other reasons, pashtuns in Pakistan are like the lost and helpless kid brother of Afghans who are only enjoying an illusion...a fantasy. Not just the pashtoons in Pakistan, the pretty much the entire globe which has fallen head over heals into the laps of multinational corporations and fumbling technocrats, that are obsessed with structure and methodology, over real social values and realities. The problem right now with the "educated" pakistani pashtuns is that they have fallen for the same trap...and foolishly think that their inflationary economics is self justified, and their half baked ideologies are enough excuse for their military excesses. The problem right now is that people are still speaking a 19th century vocabulary that includes flowery words like "democracy", "free markets", "Capitalism", "independence", "equality", "fraternity", "secularism" etc...but these words are totally divorced from their actions and the realities of the 21st century. Let these pakistani pashtuns continue to mimic the british...let them stutter and repeat like babes the words taught them by the anglos..in the end they are going to just lose themselves to the cultural mishmash produced by globalization. The only reason Afghans haven't given into the british raj from the beginning is because of Islam...pakistani pashtons on the other hand think the opposite...anyway I can go on and on about this. But like I said, I wasn't aware of this issue until I came to this site...before this for me, every pashtun was an afghan...I never considered a pakistani a pashtun or vice versa. If a pashtun ever told me he is pakistani...I'd think him to be severely confused and lost and in my heart, I'd blame his parents for not teaching him his history and language. Sometimes, I would think that he is just saying he is pakistani because he has the passport but doesn't really mean to be one...like I am a canadian because I am a resident here, but my answer to the common north american question "where are you from?" has always been "AFghanistan"...even though I wasn't even born there. I can't imagine why on earth a pashtun would say "Pakistani"...this is something I will never "understand"...
Salam

Alchemist although you make a few interesting points about the state of Pakistan, you are very ignorant of your own history as well as the history of the Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa. It is better to keep this ignorance to yourself rather than airing it (as some people do on both sides of the durand line). The only reason Pashtunkhwa was forced under the British writ was thanks to the Emir who sold this land out to the British. This was due the Russian and British rivalry in the region..otherwise they could have easily split up the entire Pashtun land into multiple fiefdoms. Second of all, re-read the history of the 1919 war half of the ghazis who fought were from Pashtunkhwa. So next time kindly do not celebrate Istiqlal wraz since those docile pashtuns east of the durand line fought a war for you only to put up with spite from a ignorant kid sitting on a computer. It must make you feel like a real deal activist right? Obviously Pashtunkhwa is now politically lost, it was forced to put up with a good 60 years of fighting the british then it was politically sidelined with the creation of Pakistan (the migraine of the world). This is the price for the constant fighting and rebellions of the Pashtuns there. They were a headache for the British, so the British clearly could not leave anything in their hands. This is one of the reasons why within Pakistan (I don't even like calling this state Pak) they are politically divided. Despite that they have maintained their language and culture and identity. The only unfortunately circumstance is that the history has been sidelined for mutaliye nonsense (aka Pakistan). In Pakistan, the most dominant ethnic group prefers urdu to their mother tongue and they have systematically taken prime Baloch areas (and would take more) as well as Sindhi lands too. They can't do that in pashtunkhwa. They are starting to do that but that was only after bombing it, bringing in militancy and assassinating major portions of the elders.

Again before you say certain things kindly read up...I am sure Feroz Afridi saib can suggest some books on its history.

[graveyardofempires]

Alchemist qurban shem sta dey khabero na
belkol dey sama wewayley
these pakistni flag waving Pukhtane are totally confused and actually against their own interests.But lets not forget there is a big chunk of Pukhtane who are awake and will never submit to british legacy.