Indian gems and Pakistani rhetorical pearls

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I google searched 'Kizilbash' and there are quite a few pakis claiming this as a family name it seems, and none of them look even remotely different from the typical punjabi. May be much less common than "Rizvi" but i see it as just another cultural appropriation by South Asians of things that have nothing to do with them.

I have to call bullsh*t on all of these wanabe 'Kizilbash'. Even if 1 in 10 of these people running around calling themselves "Kizilbash" do have a remote ancestor that was an invader from Iran, it is not important. They're pakis, and the 99% of their blood is clearly Indian and 100% of their culture is paki. There is nothing remotely Turkic or Iranian about these Shi'a pakis.

Well you're right the overall habit of South Asians is to culturally appropriate other people's history and lineage .....so in that sense I'm inclined to agree ....and for sure whatever lineage they trace to is diluted by generations of Indic mingling. I'm sure you can find many Pakis with "Qizilbash" as their name ...but they really are a minority that it seems absurd to just pick that name for social prestige .....Now Rizvis and Musavis are a dime a dozen.....I donno. As as I'm concerned he's a straight Indic.

[Akbar]

the only way we can end this behaviour is by calling a meeting of neighbouring countries and declaring desis fair and lovely. offcourse there should also be mention of Afghan,pesian etc ancestory.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

No, that will just embolden Indics to start trying to infiltrate our circles and mingle with us more because they'll delude themselves into thinking they're "one of us"

Indics know in their heart of hearts they're full of nonsense; as [MENTION=17856]Sarbani[/MENTION] once put it ....they're LARPing as Central Asian/Afghan/Persian

[Firdousi]

I google searched 'Kizilbash' and there are quite a few pakis claiming this as a family name it seems, and none of them look even remotely different from the typical punjabi. May be much less common than "Rizvi" but i see it as just another cultural appropriation by South Asians of things that have nothing to do with them.

I have to call bullsh*t on all of these wanabe 'Kizilbash'. Even if 1 in 10 of these people running around calling themselves "Kizilbash" do have a remote ancestor that was an invader from Iran, it is not important. They're pakis, and the 99% of their blood is clearly Indian and 100% of their culture is paki. There is nothing remotely Turkic or Iranian about these Shi'a pakis.

Ironically there are more Persian wannabes in India than in Herat. I have never met in my entire life an Herati claiming to be Persian. Never. Vast majority of them, despite our ethnic, cultural and historical ties, try to distance themselves from Iranians (makes sense after all Afghans really despise White-wannabes). But for some reason I find Pakis and Indians in every corner claiming to be Persians or Iranians. Its sad and hilarious at the same time lol

[Sarbani]

This guy is a typical Punjabi Jatt Sikh. Claims his family is originally from Peshawar first in one forum but then in another forum he tries to link them to Ghazni. Says that Jatts are of Scythian origin. He also thinks his people are genetically closer to Lithuanians than even Southern Italians are. He even put Afghan as his ethnicity lmao.

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Punjabis are closer to Lithuanians than MENAs and South Italians:



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Has Afghan written as his ethnicity:



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Peshawari origin:



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Afghanistani origin:





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Claims his clan (Basra) is from Afghanistan:



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Jatts are of Scythian descent:

[Akbar]

we actually do have punjabi Afghan, they are sikh andsome hindus. It is quite normal that sikhs say that they are Afghan.

[Akbar]

here is a video of them celeberating Afghan ''independence'' day.
afghan sikh in Afghanistan - YouTube

[Sarbani]

we actually do have punjabi Afghan, they are sikh andsome hindus. It is quite normal that sikhs say that they are Afghan.

Those are Afghans of Punjabi descent that came in the 20th century as merchants. They're mostly Khatris. His ancestral claims are extremely distant and typical of Pakis and Indians with a complex.

And besides, he isn't one of those Sikhs anyways. Both his parents were born in India. He claims his family migrated from Peshawar almost a millennium ago in one story and then goes on to claim they claim they're from Ghazni in another story. They're inconsistent stories and obviously written by someone with a complex.

[Sarbani]

I've interacted with that guy on reddit. The way he treats me and other Pakistani Pashtuns is very strange and two-faced. On the one hand he does this whole "Pakistani brotherhood" thing with us but then when we call him out on his racist comments toward our Afghan brethren he gets upset and starts pushing us to insult Afghans in the name of "Pakistaniyat." I think he also used to support the killing of all languages other than Urdu in Pakistan for national unity.

He also lied to me on reddit saying that the ANP used to beat up Hazaras for not speaking in Pashto xD He did indeed support exterminating Pashto, Punjabi, etc. and replacing them all with Urdu. Once when I was in an argument with him over it, he said "I'm half Hazara and on behalf of Hazaras I don't have an issue with getting rid of Persian in the Hazara community in favor of Urdu so you shouldn't either mind having your Pashto replaced with Urdu" lmaooo.

[Sarbani]

He claims to be Rajput/Hazara, so he's probably a Muhajir, which would explain the Urdu supremacy.

The mentality of these hardcore Pakistani nationalist types is very confused and contradictory. He bashes the concept of the Muslim Ummah, saying all that matters is being a Pakistani while failing to realize that the only reason Pakistan exists in the first place is the Muslim Ummah. What they want (and this also relates to wanting Urdu to replace all the native languages, as well as the formulation of the phony "Mughal" identity that Pakistanis love to talk about) is for a national identity and culture to completely replace all the traditional identities and cultures of Pakistani people. They fear that Pakistan will not stay united as long as people hold onto their identities (and many of them hate Islam and wish it wasn't what defines their identity), and most of these people are urban losers who lack a cohesive identity outside of being a Pakistani. Without Pakistan, they'd be nothing, and so they want all Pakistanis to be nothing but Pakistanis as well.

Yeah, he claims his Rajput half is from Rajasthan. Muhajirs tend to be the most extreme Paki nationalists I noticed. Their whole identity is based around being Pakistani. They hate being muhajir and want to be only Pakistani, so they selfishly project this desire onto others as well. I remember searching something on Google and coming across a PakDefence forum thread where all the Pakis there were all shrieking over the mere thought of giving national status to Pakistan's minority languages. The biggest fear mongerer there was a muhajir iirc.

[maneatinglizard]

Yeah, he claims his Rajput half is from Rajasthan. Muhajirs tend to be the most extreme Paki nationalists I noticed. Their whole identity is based around being Pakistani. They hate being muhajir and want to be only Pakistani, so they selfishly project this desire onto others as well. I remember searching something on Google and coming across a PakDefence forum thread where all the Pakis there were all shrieking over the mere thought of giving national status to Pakistan's minority languages. The biggest fear mongerer there was a muhajir iirc.

He's obviously a liar with an inferiority complex. I wouldn't be surprised if his "Hazara" mother was actually Hindkowan, if he wasn't just straight up lying. Hazaras have a bad reputation in Afghanistan but they'd still be ashamed to find this dude claiming a relation to them.

[jama0112]

Wait, really? Holy ****.
Why can't indians just love themselves?

[jama0112]

Oh my god. He's that new member in some forum named theapricity. I really hate him, due to him being obessed with being associated with afghans and other central asians. Not that it affect me though, it's annoying as **** to read his comments.

[salman47]

There is not a single Turkic or any other Central Asian or Iranian community living in the entire Indian subcontinent that can be identified and traced back to the Mughals or anyone else. If there are, then where are these people?

You find remnants of Turkic and Mongol descendants all over Central Asia, in Afghanistan, in Iran, in the Caucasus, in Russia, even in Bulgaria. People who are still identifiable by their looks, the languages they speak, their cultures.. You telling me any of that exists in some Bundjab or Bengal? or some Rawalpindi?

These people do not exist in South Asia. There are no Turkic, Central Asian or 'Persian' communities there that exist as a result of invader/settler colonizers that can be seen and distinguished from the natives unlike in any of those places mentioned above. The Indian in these pakis is overhwhelming, whether it is their culture, languages, or blood. Whether or not any random Dravidian out there in Pakiland or India had some remote ancestor hundreds of years ago from Central Asia is not important.

The truth is there is only one community in South Asia with any proven and documented roots and link to Iran and that is the Parsis.

Those Eurasian people, while being aware that they are partial(0.001%) Turkic/Persian, never claim to be someone else other than what they actually are(Caucasian). Even the Turks in Azerbaijan say they are Caucasian andnot really Turk. So i dont know whats so special about those chuch stargo for South Asia...

P.S. I actually find many of the chuch starge beautiful, i.e. i dont hate them..

[salman47]

There is not a single Turkic or any other Central Asian or Iranian community living in the entire Indian subcontinent that can be identified and traced back to the Mughals or anyone else. If there are, then where are these people?

You find remnants of Turkic and Mongol descendants all over Central Asia, in Afghanistan, in Iran, in the Caucasus, in Russia, even in Bulgaria. People who are still identifiable by their looks, the languages they speak, their cultures.. You telling me any of that exists in some Bundjab or Bengal? or some Rawalpindi?

These people do not exist in South Asia. There are no Turkic, Central Asian or 'Persian' communities there that exist as a result of invader/settler colonizers that can be seen and distinguished from the natives unlike in any of those places mentioned above. The Indian in these pakis is overhwhelming, whether it is their culture, languages, or blood. Whether or not any random Dravidian out there in Pakiland or India had some remote ancestor hundreds of years ago from Central Asia is not important.

The truth is there is only one community in South Asia with any proven and documented roots and link to Iran and that is the Parsis.

Qizilbash is reference to a group while they're not a tribe or a lineage, they have a certain group identification, it's not hard to believe that some of their descendants would exists in the various places they went, because they were essentially mercenaries.. I mean yeah I get what you're saying about Kizilbash vs Qizilbash, but that's kind of splitting hairs. And precisely as you said, Qizilbash are not an honorific title. It's simply Red-Hat, which was in reference to a type of Order. So someone picking that out of other choices like Hassani or Husayni etc would seem unlikely.


Yeah sure the guy looks super Paki, but he might have some traces to the Qizilbash mercenaries, most of whom were imported from Iran. It's just too uncommon and specific an association to just "make up"....if this guy's name was "Sayyid Makhdum Shirazi" or something, I'd totally call bull****. That's so generic that forgery is more than likely. Titles like Rizvi and Musavi are rife among Indic Shi'a, Qizilbash I don't see that much.

In Turkey's Türkçe it is 'Kızılbaş' but in Older Turkic languages it is 'Qızılbash'('Q' is the same as Arabic 'ق', and no those languages are not at all influenced by Arabic).
In Turkic languages(Uzbek e.g.) 'Qızıl' means 'red' and 'Bash' means 'Head' not hat. And the first Qızılbaş actually had real red hair. Although some of the modern ones have red hair but most of them now don't.