Is Pakistan going back to Pre 80's era of Booze , Bikini's and Bars ?

[Traveller]

Its not a secret that Pre 80's Pakistan was a liberal and open society with bars and even strip clubs operating in Karachi . It was the Hub of Nightlife activities all over Asia . Then Zia came and Everything stopped . The Trend reversed again during Musharraf's time ( who was one of the most secular leader in Pakistan's history ) when fashion shows became Westernized clothes started shrinking and most of the universities started having Pool and Halloween Parties . For people that say Pakistan has become more Islamized I say its the opposite , the Pakistan society with increasing urbanization and growing middle class has gone liberal and open . These things vanished during the 80's and 90's and sprung up again around musharraf's time . Go to any Party happening inside Pakistan's universities and you will be reminded of a society that has gone westernised . Some of the fashion shows will not look out of Place in London or New York . What do you guys think of this change ?









Normal Scenes in Pakistan Fashion Show these days






So is Pakistan reversing back to how it was Pre - Zia days ?

This is beghairati. Nothing to brag about.

[Kakar-Wardak]

Peshawar has made another account the geek of beacon house thinks his lifestyles and ideas are shared by the rest of the population.

If these leftist really wanted a liberal state they would pay their taxes, but in reality they rather live in their ivory towers.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Afghan's Identity has been one of razing down their own country with civil wars , spying for other countries and killing their own people for very little amount of Money . Historically speaking people with identity crisis have been occupied by others . Afghanistan happens to be occupied for 3 decades now .

Well National Identities themselves are colonial byproducts, so first thing I'd recommend you do is get rid of this White Man's Ghulam mentality that your Indic ancestors have internalized from years of abuse.

But besides that, the fact there was a civil war and Afghanistan didn't split apart, while Pakistan had a civil war and became two pieces is actually evidence that counters your narrative ...perhaps rethink your narrative?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Here is another guy telling us how the rich exploited the poor in Pakistan . Afghanistan is the most corrupt country in the world according to numerous rankings . Where is the cosmetic display there ? . We have one the biggest middle class population in the world .

In Pakistan, it’s middle class rising - The Hindu

Attempts to quantify Pakistan’s middle class, largely based on income and the purchase of consumption goods, show that as many as 42% of Pakistan’s population belong to the upper and middle classes, with 38% counted as “the middle class”. If these numbers are correct, or even indicative in any broad sense, then 84 million Pakistanis belong to the middle and upper classes, a population size larger than that of Germany and Turkey. Anecdotal evidence and social observations, supplemented by estimates other than what people buy, would also support the claim that Pakistan’s middle class is indeed quite formidable.

Make note that this is an "opinion" piece and not a factual reference.


thehindu.com/opinion/lead/in-pakistan-its-middle-class-rising/article17378526.ece

"anecdotal evidence" could be fluff

Peshawar_22, you don't need tp recycle these debates, using the same articles or permutations of the same articles ....we get that you're insecure and overcompensating.. But this is pointess.

The fact is, this is Pakistan on the ground, no amount of pampering the corrupt in your country with low quality Western performers will mask this.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I am a Pashtun not a Punjabi . I posted the pictures and videos to talk about the societal changes in the people especially the new generation who are westernised and liberal .

. Idealizing the dysfunctions that predominate Western society and branding them "liberal" is not progress.

Make this go away first, THEN gloat about abusing society's resources to invite some low rent Westerner performer to your country..

[Pakistan]

Make note that this is an "opinion" piece and not a factual reference.


thehindu.com/opinion/lead/in-pakistan-its-middle-class-rising/article17378526.ece

"anecdotal evidence" could be fluff

Peshawar_22, you don't need tp recycle these debates, using the same articles or permutations of the same articles ....we get that you're insecure and overcompensating.. But this is pointess.

The fact is, this is Pakistan on the ground, no amount of pampering the corrupt in your country with low quality Western performers will mask this.

I can post worst pictures from Newyork and Chicago then the one you posted Would that prove anything ? I can post articles with the numbers but it would be pointless for Afghans you know why ? Because you guys get butthurt with anything related to Pakistan .

The fact that Afghanistan is occupied by foreigners and militants since decades and you guys still talk of this imaginary ghairat and identity is mind boggling .

[kunatawar]

You must be living under a rock . How old are you ? Have you been to Universities in Peshawar or Abbottabad or the Private Schools like Beaconhouse , Roots or City School and seen their environment ? Its a fact that Pashtun societies are getting affected with this . Pakistan is now the most urbanised country in South Asia and majority are living in cities rather than villages . You will be seeing a completely different KP in coming 10-15 years when all these youngsters grow up . There won't be any difference between Islamabad , Lahore , Karachi mahol and Peshawar .

sorry but you're retarded if you think that majority of people in peshawar act like that, like i said for most of us islam >>>> anything else. Do you live in peshawar? have you ever lived there or are you another one of those born and raised in islamabad types? My sister even had multiple people making very loud and obnoxious comments when she simply wore jeans to a park. ill ask you again, whats the point of this thread?

[ZarakDurrani606]

I am a Pashtun not a Punjabi . I posted the pictures and videos to talk about the societal changes in the people especially the new generation who are westernised and liberal .

Way you speak does'nt belie your identity now does it? If you truly are Pashtun and not living under a rock then you would know that the Pashtuns alone have retained their traditions (to a great extent) . Its only white wannabe punjabis that speak of emulating essentially western trends and values, regardless of whether their being flawed or not.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I can post worst pictures from Newyork and Chicago then the one you posted Would that prove anything ? I can post articles with the numbers but it would be pointless for Afghans you know why ? Because you guys get butthurt with anything related to Pakistan .

The fact that Afghanistan is occupied by foreigners and militants since decades and you guys still talk of this imaginary ghairat and identity is mind boggling .

The difference is, even if you could find "the worst" picture of New York, you won't find the majority of New York like that, if you go to Pakistan, the majority of the country is similar to the picture I showed you. The rural areas are more well kept and tidy, but still very poor and not much infrastructure.

The point here is you're being intellectually dishonest and just cherry picking articles that anyone could write. Use real metrics, real studies and real research, not a bunch of fluff articles about Techno Concerts in Lahore or spoiled kids who have been brainwashed by Western pop culture.

Pakistan was conceived and forged by British colonialists, so even if Afghanistan is occupied, Pakistan is still a British invention.

[logical]

I can post worst pictures from Newyork and Chicago then the one you posted Would that prove anything ? I can post articles with the numbers but it would be pointless for Afghans you know why ? Because you guys get butthurt with anything related to Pakistan .

The fact that Afghanistan is occupied by foreigners and militants since decades and you guys still talk of this imaginary ghairat and identity is mind boggling .

Afghanis are just jealous at our progress. In islam hassad is one of the biggest sins.

[logical]

Indian urban class in Delhi and Mumbai are more liberal and open minded. Something Pakistanis can learn from India and as well as Turkey.

In Pakistan in terms of being liberal Karachi comes first and after that Lahore and Islamabad.

[Pakistan]

The difference is, even if you could find "the worst" picture of New York, you won't find the majority of New York like that, if you go to Pakistan, the majority of the country is similar to the picture I showed you. The rural areas are more well kept and tidy, but still very poor and not much infrastructure.

The point here is you're being intellectually dishonest and just cherry picking articles that anyone could write. Use real metrics, real studies and real research, not a bunch of fluff articles about Techno Concerts in Lahore or spoiled kids who have been brainwashed by Western pop culture.

Pakistan was conceived and forged by British colonialists, so even if Afghanistan is occupied, Pakistan is still a British invention.

Lets talk legit numbers shall we ?



What's the reality behind all the praise for Pakistan's economy? | TRT World

Underpinning much of the coverage is a set of core statistics: the country’s GDP growth rate crossed 4 percent last year, and is expected to surpass 5.5 percent in 2017. The stock market rose by 46 percent in 2016, and is now in line for an upgrade to emerging market status by the middle of 2017. Foreign exchange reserves have grown to a record high of $20 billion, while more inflows are expected via a number of big-ticket energy and transit projects under the $57 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). Finally, measurements by the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) show multidimensional poverty declining from 55 percent of all households in 2005 to 38 percent in 2015.

Beyond macroeconomic indicators, another factor that has received considerable attention in recent coverage is the country’s growing middle class. One recent piece, published in the Wall Street Journal, cited this burgeoning middle class as the primary fuel behind the twin boon of democratic stability and economic growth.

Depending on the definitions used, Pakistan’s middle class is estimated to be anywhere between 5 to 35 percent of the population. Using income-based methods, the Pakistan Institute of Development Economics (PIDE) finds that approximately 55 million people earn between 75 to 125 percent of the overall median income. Credit Suisse, on the other hand, estimates that 9.7 percent of Pakistan’s adult population, around 7 million people, possess wealth between $10,000 and $100,000. By this measure, Pakistan’s would be the 18th largest middle-class in the world.

In the absence of reliable data on changes in the income distribution, a number of other metrics serve as a useful way to gauge Pakistan’s "middle-class revolution". One of these is the ownership of consumer durables: today, approximately 40 percent of all households own a motorcycle while nearly 60 percent own a television, up from 4 and 20 percent respectively in the early 1990s. Similarly, household ownership of washing machines and refrigerators is now in the mid-40s as well, up from under 20 percent just two decades ago. This expanding market for sale of household appliances, along with its untapped potential, has not gone unnoticed by foreign investors. Late last year, the Turkish consumer goods giant Arcelik entered the Pakistani market through a $240 million buy-out of a local white goods manufacturer.

Similar expansion at the upper-end of the consumer market can be gauged from the sale of passenger cars, which rose from 40,000 units in 2000 to nearly 200,000 in 2016. A considerable portion of this market is now financed through credit, as banking outlays for the purchase of automobiles hit an all-time high of $1.1 billion in 2016, up from $415 million in 2012.

Infrastructure is not good enough ? Obviously you must be high when you type things . While its not on the level of developed countries its much better than other developing countries . For example our 6-lane Expressways are the best in South Asia and the total 6-lane Expressways will be 2000 KM by 2020 . Again I will give you numbers and rankings .

Global Rankings 216 | Logistics Performance Index

Pakistan is ranked 68th on Logistics out of 160 Countries ahead of countries like Bulgaria , Kazakhistan , Iran , Russia .

Cities like Lahore and Islamabad get praised by Foreigners who come and visit here , its not stories , photos and cosmetic beauty made up by people . I understand your ignorance because after all Afghanistan was the only country that did not recognise Pakistan in 1947 . Seeing Pakistan grow at such a rapid pace can be a daunting experience for many Afghans .

[logical]

Who need numbers when I can post pictures.

New York



Kabul

look at all that progress

[Elite Pakhtun]

Lol yeah you could say that, being a desi punjobi. Us Pashtuns stay loyal to our tribes and age-old culture. On one hand you desis make a big show of ghazwa hind and "allah u akbar" pakistan army and then post pictures of scantily clad women in fashiom shows to prove how "modern" you are. Tell you what desi, keep your filthy culture relegated to punjaab. Us Pashtuns, whether we be in Khyber or Afghanistan will stick to our own. Stuff like you is what comes of a hapsburgian empire like country stapled together with cultures and races that are worlds apart (figuratively). You desi punjabis lack an identity so always claim being persian, afghan, arab, western etc etc. ...... just accept your indian heritage. Nothing wrong with that. :D

Does anyone believe this kunni zway is actually Pakistani? There were many dead giveaways before, with 1 in particular that was exceedingly obvious. I'm not going to disclose what it was, because I want these idiots behind the keyboard to keep being stupid.

But seriously... what a jackass.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Lets talk legit numbers shall we ?

Just looking at this graph since everything else is prattle.

Population of Pakistan is about 180 Million, 6 Million Middle Class,

Clearly Middle Class in Pakistan's terms is not same as U.S. terms. so let's use the Asian Metric.

Definition of middle class: Economists, developing counties, and agencies disagree.

Using the same cutoff, the Asian Development Bank claims that the percentage of Asians in the middle class jumped from 31 percent to 82 percent over the past two decades. A recent report by the International Labor Organization boasted that 40 percent of workers in the developing world are now middle class, meaning in this case that they live on $4 per day.

$4 dollars / day $4 X 365 = $1460/ year.

So Pakistani Middle Class would be anyone that makes a minimum of $1,460/ year. This means if 38% of Pakistan is Middle Class(not a fact but figures claimed by your earlier source), 68.4 Million people , make as much money as 1 semester's tuition at the local public community college per year. Your average middle class person makes as much as MacDonald's employee makes a Month in America. This is poverty by global developmental metrics.

A little basic math and critical thinking debunks the narrative.