Is Pakistan going back to Pre 80's era of Booze , Bikini's and Bars ?

[torkham]

To have a liberal state you need a welfare state alongside so it can take care of the bad choices women make once they taste freedom, let's be frank Pakistan will never be a welfare state.

Lol true.

[torkham]

This is what happens to people without strong sense of identity/cultural belongning... Seeing these pakis/desis act so White washed is cringeworthy to say the least....

I Dont care if Pakis whoore out their mothers to their western/white masters, as long as they keep IT in that Desi part of their country...

This is sign of times.
Just as it was sign of times back in 77/78 we freshly arrived into Yaru, nr Pishin. In our hosts home I saw Urdu tv drama and was shocked to see female actresses playing relationship roles with male leads, it was a time When some strata of society were very relaxed and could express this on tv. Of course soon after Zia came and the clampdown started.

These videos very probably reflect a tiny percentage of paki society, but Pakistan's tiny percentage is a huge number lol.

Even on Kabul tv shows the amount of development is exceeding.

[Manzareh]

Pakistan, in your opinion is this a good bad thing. To me it seems the more Un-pakistani the country becomes (fundemental principles the nation was born with) the more patriotic you kind of people get. I mean each to their own, whatever floats your boat but really and truelly it oozes insecurities - on one hand you boast this traditional cultural label that you are quick to flaunt everytime you mention wars, army etc it's all "Allah Allah" but then in the other hand you are even quicker to post pictures and videos of women's skin to prove you are up-to-date with the rest of the dunya.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Pakistan has a much more stronger identity than Afghanistan Hands down be it westernised or not . Its not only the Desi Region These things are slowly starting to get to Peshawar now .

mental colonization is not an identity it is like saying a slave has an identity because he embraces his master's name.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

quicker to post pictures and videos of women's skin to prove you are up-to-date with the rest of the dunya.

This is the effect of colonialism and the cognitive dissonance of nationalistic bravado, and it needs to be addressed.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Isn't it ironic that a country that claims to be one of the most ghairatmand people are actually one of the most miserable people in the world while according to you people with Identity crisis are happy and much ahead ?

World Happiness Report 217 – World Happiness Report

Pakistan ranked 80th
Afghanistan 141

You would think that people with such a strong sense of identity would be Happy atleast . In Pakistan we lay more importance to being a Pakistani . In Afghanistan your loyalty only lies to your tribe , Money and other countries . That is why Kabul resembles a village rather than a capital because it has been razed down by afghans themselves countless times .

This is probably the least objective way to measure anything and also nothing to do with identity. You're Going on narrative and not anything bonafide.

just because your rich exploit your poor and leave them to die in misery, while hording wealth to create a cosmetic display, doesn't make you happy, don't let yourself get beguiled by some nonsense and very arbitrary "ranking"

Truth is always more crucial than temporary and fleeting feelings, don't let the farangay mentality make you naive.

[Pakistan]

mental colonization is not an identity it is like saying a slave has an identity because he embraces his master's name.

Afghan's Identity has been one of razing down their own country with civil wars , spying for other countries and killing their own people for very little amount of Money . Historically speaking people with identity crisis have been occupied by others . Afghanistan happens to be occupied for 3 decades now .

[Pakistan]

This is probably the least objective way to measure anything and also nothing to do with identity. You're Going on narrative and not anything bonafide.

just because your rich exploit your poor and leave them to die in misery, while hording wealth to create a cosmetic display, doesn't make you happy, don't let yourself get beguiled by some nonsense and very arbitrary "ranking"

Truth is always more crucial than temporary and fleeting feelings, don't let the farangay mentality make you naive.

Here is another guy telling us how the rich exploited the poor in Pakistan . Afghanistan is the most corrupt country in the world according to numerous rankings . Where is the cosmetic display there ? . We have one the biggest middle class population in the world .

In Pakistan, it’s middle class rising - The Hindu

Attempts to quantify Pakistan’s middle class, largely based on income and the purchase of consumption goods, show that as many as 42% of Pakistan’s population belong to the upper and middle classes, with 38% counted as “the middle class”. If these numbers are correct, or even indicative in any broad sense, then 84 million Pakistanis belong to the middle and upper classes, a population size larger than that of Germany and Turkey. Anecdotal evidence and social observations, supplemented by estimates other than what people buy, would also support the claim that Pakistan’s middle class is indeed quite formidable.

[ZarakDurrani606]

Isn't it ironic that a country that claims to be one of the most ghairatmand people are actually one of the most miserable people in the world while according to you people with Identity crisis are happy and much ahead ?

World Happiness Report 217 – World Happiness Report

Pakistan ranked 80th
Afghanistan 141

You would think that people with such a strong sense of identity would be Happy atleast . In Pakistan we lay more importance to being a Pakistani . In Afghanistan your loyalty only lies to your tribe , Money and other countries . That is why Kabul resembles a village rather than a capital because it has been razed down by afghans themselves countless times .

Lol yeah you could say that, being a desi punjobi. Us Pashtuns stay loyal to our tribes and age-old culture. On one hand you desis make a big show of ghazwa hind and "allah u akbar" pakistan army and then post pictures of scantily clad women in fashiom shows to prove how "modern" you are. Tell you what desi, keep your filthy culture relegated to punjaab. Us Pashtuns, whether we be in Khyber or Afghanistan will stick to our own. Stuff like you is what comes of a hapsburgian empire like country stapled together with cultures and races that are worlds apart (figuratively). You desi punjabis lack an identity so always claim being persian, afghan, arab, western etc etc. ...... just accept your indian heritage. Nothing wrong with that. :D

[UnknownUser]

To have a liberal state you need a welfare state alongside so it can take care of the bad choices women make once they taste freedom, let's be frank Pakistan will never be a welfare state.

Interesting...this is One of Problems of going full mode liberal...I am not sure Pakis will like how IT will affect their society...they are going to adopt the divorce rates of the West too, (50-90% marriagess ending in divorce, single moms raising kids alone, slowly but surely the destructon of nuclear family)... Enjoy having to make Plans to see your kids ocassionally during a month...

[Pakistan]

Lol yeah you could say that, being a desi punjobi. Us Pashtuns stay loyal to our tribes and age-old culture. On one hand you desis make a big show of ghazwa hind and "allah u akbar" pakistan army and then post pictures of scantily clad women in fashiom shows to prove how "modern" you are. Tell you what desi, keep your filthy culture relegated to punjaab. Us Pashtuns, whether we be in Khyber or Afghanistan will stick to our own. Stuff like you is what comes of a hapsburgian empire like country stapled together with cultures and races that are worlds apart (figuratively). You desi punjabis lack an identity so always claim being persian, afghan, arab, western etc etc. ...... just accept your indian heritage. Nothing wrong with that. :D

I am a Pashtun not a Punjabi . I posted the pictures and videos to talk about the societal changes in the people especially the new generation who are westernised and liberal .

[Pakistan]

Interesting article .

Hindutva India, secular Pakistan?

so drag these (Muslims’) mothers and sisters out of the graves, and rape the corpses.”

An India Times video went viral two years ago, where a spokesman of the radical Hindu Yuva Vahini is seen clamouring these words to a ground-full of devotees.

The video titled ‘Yogi Adityanath’s Men Telling Hindus To Rape Dead Muslim Women Is Beyond Shocking’ has gone viral again this week after the yogi was confirmed as the UP Chief Minister after BJP and its allies won 325 of the 403 state assembly seats following recent elections.

Adityanath’s impressive CV in a politico-religious career spanning over two decades includes, provoking over 20 incidents of communal violence, forcibly converting thousands to Hinduism, burning mosques, destroying property, inciting massacre and rapes, murdering the gunman of rival politician, etc.

Impressive, because in a region that has been a hub for the Who’s Who of radical religionists, few have managed to carve out a parallel career outside of ideological violence. Fewer still have blended the two together and touted it as a development agenda. Hardly anyone can be credited with singlehandedly heralding an ideological shift for one-sixth of the global population. Yogi Adityanath has done all three.

While the Muslim League would peddle the theory to reassure Muslims who looked destined to be left behind in India two decades later, Azad said these words while addressing the League’s Calcutta session in the aftermath of the Delhi proposals of 1927, with a united Indian federation and a common centre very much in mind.

Once you remove the centre’s restraint and have two separate states with inverse Hindu-Muslim majority-minority dynamics, what’s stopping either of the two majorities from exercising their complete dominance – political or otherwise?

If you carefully examine the words of Yuva Vahini’s spokesman, there is no intention of struggling for improving the situation of Hindus in Pakistan. They want to make it just as bad for Indian Muslims.

That in a nutshell describes radical religionism, whether Islamism or Hindutva. It flourishes on the idea of subjugation of others, not the uplift of oneself.

And it is here that the Modi-led BJP’s façade of ‘development’ as the party’s raison d’etre, and the foundation of its electoral successes, self-mutilates.

Adityanath, whose ‘spiritual father’ Mahant Avaidyanath was an Ayodhya movement ideologue that culminated in the demolition of Babri Mosque, and whose ‘spiritual grandfather’ Digvijay Nath was arrested for inflaming Gandhi’s assassination, is the culmination of a century of Hindutva, popularised by Vinayak Damodar Savarkar long before the word ‘Pakistan’ was even uttered anywhere.

Through their ideological offspring, the Hindu Mahasabha and the RSS have democratically perched themselves in New Delhi and Lucknow – the capital of India’s most populous state.

But the timing of Adityanath’s appointment triggers an irony large enough to demand a separate homeland for itself.

As the BJP was summoning a proponent of the Hindutva version of Two Nation Theory into the UP CM office, the Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif was presenting its historic negation while addressing Karachi’s Hindu community at a Holi event:

“Pakistan was not made so one religion can dominate over others. Its creation itself was a struggle against religious oppression.”

This much needed historical revisionism of the idea that ‘Hindus and Muslim cannot exist together’ – which indeed had been the rallying cry of the Muslim League in the 1940s – would not only overturn the seven decade ideological onslaught on the local Hindus, it would help Pakistan reconcile with its separatist birth.

A progressive reform of the ‘ideology of Pakistan’, despite its historical inaccuracies, should look to the follies of the Congress leadership and the British imperialistic forces for the inevitability of Pakistan, more so than underscoring the rhetoric used by the League to delineate the differences between Hindus and Muslims.

After all, how would you urge the local Muslims to embrace their Hindu compatriots after teaching generations that the very reason Pakistan was created was that Muslims couldn’t live with Hindus?

On Sunday, President Mamnoon also passed the Hindu Marriage Bill into law. Notwithstanding the criminal volumes of neglect that postponed it for seven decades, the law would now protect Hindu marriages and families. It would especially be a safeguard against the forced conversions of Hindus, which the PM in his Holi address said was a ‘crime in Islam’.

The PML-N has taken anti-Islamist action every time it has flexed its political muscle: unblocking YouTube, removing anti-Ahmadiyya posters in Lahore, naming the QAU physics centre after Dr Abdus Salam, passing progressive women’s rights legislation, or hanging Mumtaz Qadri.

The ruling party’s aspirations for a pluralist Pakistan can be seen in many of the premier’s speeches, none more so than the Holi address where he mentioned Jinnah’s August 11 speech – that has polarised generations – by its name, reiterating that Pakistani Hindus are ‘free to go to their temples’ and should do so without any fear.

Meanwhile, the BJP at its strongest hour chose Adityanath – who has incited torching of mosques – as the populist face of the party, to maintain stranglehold over the Hindu vote for 2019 and beyond.

To put things into perspective, the move is akin to Masroor Jhangvi becoming the chief minister of Punjab, with his political foundations in militant anti-Shia bigotry and violence.
This isn’t BJP ideologically overlapping with the RSS, or maintaining Hindutva alliances to strengthen the far-right vote bank. The party has unveiled Modi’s heir apparent in Uttar Pradesh, a state more populous than Pakistan.

While Pakistan’s Islamist problem is light years away from being resolved – especially amidst crackdown on ‘social media blasphemy’ – and jihadist groups are yet to be taken care of, the current leadership isn’t letting their development ambitions come in the way of an increasingly evident liberal Pakistan that they envision. And despite the vast disparity in starting points, the contrasting directions Pakistan and India are headed towards are becoming increasingly visible.

[kunatawar]

I am a Pashtun not a Punjabi . I posted the pictures and videos to talk about the societal changes in the people especially the new generation who are westernised and liberal .

if you are pashtun then you would know that vast majority of us would shoot ourselves if we saw our kids acting like those videos. You would also know that vast majority of pashtuns (even in peshawar) put islam wayyy above 'pakistaniat', so then why did you make this thread? only a minority of pakistanis act like that and even those are the wannabes that grew up in the big cities in the eastern part of the country, what does this thread have to do with pashtuns?

[Pakistan]

if you are pashtun then you would know that vast majority of us would shoot ourselves if we saw our kids acting like those videos. You would also know that vast majority of pashtuns (even in peshawar) put islam wayyy above 'pakistaniat', so then why did you make this thread? only a minority of pakistanis act like that and even those are the wannabes that grew up in the big cities in the eastern part of the country, what does this thread have to do with pashtuns?

You must be living under a rock . How old are you ? Have you been to Universities in Peshawar or Abbottabad or the Private Schools like Beaconhouse , Roots or City School and seen their environment ? Its a fact that Pashtun societies are getting affected with this . Pakistan is now the most urbanised country in South Asia and majority are living in cities rather than villages . You will be seeing a completely different KP in coming 10-15 years when all these youngsters grow up . There won't be any difference between Islamabad , Lahore , Karachi mahol and Peshawar .

[Traveller]

What is so great about booze and bikinis? Neither of them contribute anything positive to society. Booze especially is bad because it directly harms the body to the point where it can even cause cancer. Why do we need these things in Pakistani society?