Can we please stop this obsession with race and ethnocentrism?

[Elite Pakhtun]

Lol, that's because in Pakistan Pashtuns are seen as light skinned as other Indics are slightly darker. In Afghanistan you can say Pashtuns are seen as dark skinned and others are even lighter than Pashtuns so we don't stand out.

Among Pashtuns tanned skinned is preferred for men and lighf skin for women. That's why in songz you will hear ghanam rang alak aw speena jinai.

Hmmm... I've seen a fair amount of afghan pashtuns. My personal observation says many times they're darker skinned than pak pashtuns. I've seen ample dark Afghans.

Doesn't mean there aren't dark Pakistani pashtuns either. But I've seen Indian lookalikes even amongst afghans. Having said that, actual indics etc actually have skin color as dark as black people.

Not sure about guys having tanned skin being preferred. To the best of my knowledge, women are so crazy that they don't care too much about looks. Tanned skin is the norm. There's nothing special about it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Afghans are kinda weird. In Pakistan, where normal pashtuns live, the skin thing is a stereotype we use to differentiate between us and the rest.

The skin thing seems to be internalizing Indic culture, which is odd, because you seem proud of internalizing their cultural hegemony. Not something very Pashtun.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Hmmm... I've seen a fair amount of afghan pashtuns. My personal observation says many times they're darker skinned than pak pashtuns. I've seen ample dark Afghans.

Doesn't mean there aren't dark Pakistani pashtuns either. But I've seen Indian lookalikes even amongst afghans. Having said that, actual indics etc actually have skin color as dark as black people.

Not sure about guys having tanned skin being preferred. To the best of my knowledge, women are so crazy that they don't care too much about looks. Tanned skin is the norm. There's nothing special about it.

Well what he means is that in traditional Pashtun society, men being more rugged and outdoorsy become more tanned. So a person who's pale is seen as kind of girly because that suggests he's weak and stays in seclusion like a woman.

[Elite Pakhtun]

The skin thing seems to be internalizing Indic culture, which is odd, because you seem proud of internalizing their cultural hegemony. Not something very Pashtun.

It is not. As you may have noticed, ample Afghans in the past were into the skin thing. Some Iranians are as well. Has overlap with their culture, doesn't mean it stemmed from it.

Well what he means is that in traditional Pashtun society, men being more rugged and outdoorsy become more tanned. So a person who's pale is seen as kind of girly because that suggests he's weak and stays in seclusion like a woman.

Well outdoorsy is usually manual labor, i.e. lower class. The ones who are indoors can be rugged as well... they just don't need to be too exposed to the sun.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=19566]Elite Pakhtun[/MENTION] You do see some Afghans which are similar to Indian/Punjabi in skin colour and general looks.I think they are usually from Kabul and Tajik by race.
You have darker skinned men among the Pakistani Pashtuns also,especially the middle aged and older men.
It varies from area to area even within Afghanistan/Pakistan and from tribe to tribe just like other physical features like height and build.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It is not. As you may have noticed, ample Afghans in the past were into the skin thing. Some Iranians are as well. Has overlap with their culture, doesn't mean it stemmed from it.

Well outdoorsy is usually manual labor, i.e. lower class. The ones who are indoors can be rugged as well... they just don't need to be too exposed to the sun.

No we taunt Indic people about the skin thing because we see it as a sensitivity they have. We're not "into" the skin thing.

Well outdoorsy is usually manual labor, i.e. lower class. The ones who are indoors can be rugged as well... they just don't need to be too exposed to the sun

Pashtuns living in rough terrains, have historically been outdoorsy people, They don't historically have this type of class structure. This is from Hindu Caste system. Indoors and rugged, that's doing what baking cookies? lol

[Shapur]

Hmmm... I've seen a fair amount of afghan pashtuns. My personal observation says many times they're darker skinned than pak pashtuns. I've seen ample dark Afghans.

Doesn't mean there aren't dark Pakistani pashtuns either. But I've seen Indian lookalikes even amongst afghans. Having said that, actual indics etc actually have skin color as dark as black people.

Not sure about guys having tanned skin being preferred. To the best of my knowledge, women are so crazy that they don't care too much about looks. Tanned skin is the norm. There's nothing special about it.

You could be right. Not disputing what you have seen. But how would a British drawn colonial imaginary line suddenly turn the ones on the Afghan side darker? Did the British also know this and divided Pashtuns based on complexion with darkies in Afghanistan and light ones in Pakistan?

Tanned skin is preferred worldwide, thats why white people tan themselves and dark people use lightening creams. I know women only care about money but if you aint got money then looks come second.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

E.D. lives in some sort of Hindu-caste system inspired tunnel vision, where being soft and pudgy and pale is somehow more prized than having an athletic rugged body with a tan.

[Elite Pakhtun]

You could be right. Not disputing what you have seen. But how would a British drawn colonial imaginary line suddenly turn the ones on the Afghan side darker? Did the British also know this and divided Pashtuns based on complexion with darkies in Afghanistan and light ones in Pakistan?

Tanned skin is preferred worldwide, thats why white people tan themselves and dark people use lightening creams. I know women only care about money but if you aint got money then looks come second.

Maybe it's the Afghans I met. Zarghun Mangal and some reporter called Sana Safi are fair skinned. I've probably met the darker ones.

About the tan thing... personal evidence says it varies. Some do some don't. You might be right. Hard to say. I've never seen fair skin work against someone (Unless they were courting someone who hated fair skin). Tanning is popular amongst white people. Some girls are into it.

Tanned ie brown/light brown people also use lightening creams. More than likely people want to be what's considered unique in their region.

Don't get me wrong, tanned skin can be very good. Depends really. But pashtuns love their fair skin. As weird as that sounds.

E.D. lives in some sort of Hindu-caste system inspired tunnel vision, where being soft and pudgy and pale is somehow more prized than having an athletic rugged body with a tan.

Who said anything about soft and pudgy? You live in some delusion where class differences mysteriously disappear in "traditional pashtun society". They have to be rugged enough to boss the peons, or deal with disputes/fights.

Ofcourse upper class can be rugged. They won't necessarily be outdoors all the time. Skin color changes over a long period of time. It's not instantaneous. Just like someone with dark skin can spend all day indoors and won't be fair skinned either.

No one's denying tanned pashtuns, or even dark skinned ones, are tough/rugged. You just seem to be in denial about what pashtuns take pride in. There are many things, being on fairer end of the spectrum is usually one of them.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Maybe it's the Afghans I met. Zarghun Mangal and some reporter called Sana Safi are fair skinned. I've probably met the darker ones.

About the tan thing... personal evidence says it varies. Some do some don't. You might be right. Hard to say. I've never seen fair skin work against someone (Unless they were courting someone who hated fair skin). Tanning is popular amongst white people. Some girls are into it.

Tanned ie brown/light brown people also use lightening creams. More than likely people want to be what's considered unique in their region.

Don't get me wrong, tanned skin can be very good. Depends really. But pashtuns love their fair skin. As weird as that sounds.



Who said anything about soft and pudgy? You live in some delusion where class differences mysteriously disappear in "traditional pashtun society". They have to be rugged enough to boss the peons, or deal with disputes/fights.

Ofcourse upper class can be rugged. They won't necessarily be outdoors all the time. Skin color changes over a long period of time. It's not instantaneous. Just like someone with dark skin can spend all day indoors and won't be fair skinned either.

No one's denying tanned pashtuns, or even dark skinned ones, are tough/rugged. You just seem to be in denial about what pashtuns take pride in. There are many things, being on fairer end of the spectrum is usually one of them.

There's no such thing as "upper class" among Afghans unless you mean character=class or Seniority. Even the royalty were outdoorsmen. We definitely don't overlap with this aspect of the culture. This is an Indic trait.

Nice bait and switch/Strawman, I never made any claim about fair and rugged, Just indoorsy and rugged. Indoorsy people aren't active and thus are unlikely to be rugged, especially if you're talking about Pashtuns, back home.

[Kakar-Wardak]

[MENTION=19566]Elite Pakhtun[/MENTION] You do see some Afghans which are similar to Indian/Punjabi in skin colour and general looks.I think they are usually from Kabul and Tajik by race.
You have darker skinned men among the Pakistani Pashtuns also,especially the middle aged and older men.
It varies from area to area even within Afghanistan/Pakistan and from tribe to tribe just like other physical features like height and build.

Height is 80% genetic and 20% nutrition/environmental factors.

If you as a kid were always sick especially in your first 5-6 years you probably won't reach your genetic potential( just look at the tallest person in your family/ uncles and first cousins), 20% is nutrition and environmental factors.

[Charsi Malang]

Well what he means is that in traditional Pashtun society, men being more rugged and outdoorsy become more tanned. So a person who's pale is seen as kind of girly because that suggests he's weak and stays in seclusion like a woman.

Most women I've spoken to aren't that fond of fair skin. Especially younger girls. Unfortunately this is a Muslim trait. Arabs, Iranians, Turks, and even Pashtuns as a whole prefer to have lighter skin. Especially the older generation. If you are very fair skinned in these countries I think you get treated better.

It's completely the opposite in the West, not even skin colour but also with physique. A fat/chubby person back home is seen as healthy and strong and probably affluent. A fat/pudgy person in the West is seen as rightly unhealthy. The West loves darker skin, which is the opposite of our Muslim countries (India as well).

If you're slightly chubby and very fair, then back home, you've hit the jackpot.

[Adam]

Been around plenty of Afghan and Pak Pashtuns, most of which have the exact same skin tone, no burning sun here in the UK.

[Charsi Malang]

Been around plenty of Afghan and Pak Pashtuns, most of which have the exact same skin tone, no burning sun here in the UK.

Agreed.