Salamuna

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

-_- Calling yourself relligious is not braging. You say you belive in Allah and want to follow the Islamic teachings, ofcourse nobody is perfect, but I assume you pray at least once a weak in Mosque? You also participate in Ramadan, and pray 5 times a day? If so then you are relligious.

In Islam those are the BARE MINIMUM to be a Muslim; to be religious requires much more work.

[Golden]

Not at all, I'll tell you why, the Pashtuns conquered an area and made the locals a hamsaya. This is what happened with parachas. In return for mercy and allowing them to stay, the hamsayas work as servants. The Pashtuns who live in Punjab, are just temporary workers, they migrate wherever they can get jobs. So they'll go here and there etc.

See two different systems. It's ok your ethnic pride is hurt; but history presents horrible realities. In Modern times, hamsaya system can't be imposed, but everyone still remembers who their ancestors were so stigma remains.

Also I'd like to add, only a small number of Pashtuns ended up in Punjab, most are in Karachi or KPK.

Same system just different name, not sure why you are in denial. Afghani pathans are basically kammi, yes they can move but so can anyone else for that matter. In fact afghani pathans are replacing kammi in punjab towns for doing same job for much cheaper. While former kammis get educated or move to cities to start over. Don't get me wrong, my ancestors were not kammi. Though not sure if I would be ashamed if they were. Likely yes if I lived in Pakistan. I'm pretty sure afghani pathans dread doing jobs in small town knowing fully well how they are looked upon.

If someone do servant jobs after certain time stigma remain in society which is yet come out of medieval age completely and hence afghani pathans are looked down upon because of that. And you're wrong about afghani pathans in punjab, you will find more of them in punjab towns. They are just spread out more unlike concentrating in one large city like Karachi.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Same system just different name,

If that's what you want to tell yourself to feel better; I just explained the difference and how it works differently. Sounds like you're in denial here.

[Golden]

If that's what you want to tell yourself to feel better; I just explained the difference and how it works differently. Sounds like you're in denial here.

You are stuck in semantics out of shame of being afghani pathan and denial. There is nothing complicated in it, even someone like you can understand it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

You are stuck in semantics out of shame of being afghani pathan and denial. There is nothing complicated in it, even someone like you can understand it.

Like I said whatever makes you feel better; if you want to live in make believe that's your concern; Indentured servitude versus freedom of choice employment isn't just a semantic though.

[Golden]

Like I said whatever makes you feel better; if you want to live in make believe that's your concern; Indentured servitude versus freedom of choice employment isn't just a semantic though.

Semantics and being in denial will not change reality in real world. It's ok you can pretend to be king on PF, that's what this place is for afghani pathans.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

[MENTION=19473]Golden[/MENTION]

Tilla Jogian

The definitions of indentured servitude and employment are all I need to convince me it's not semantics. Unless you can change the definitions of the terms then there's no hope for you. Write to Oxford dictionary in that case. What your problem is; you have an inferiority complex and that's why as we say in Pashto "sta pa kuna kai chinjee natsawi".

I'm not trying to act like a King; I don't glorify subjugating and tormenting Punjabis and robbing them of their self respect. But it happened and as we can see Toramana is proof.....so I'm sorry but the one living in denial is you. Now salvage whatever self respect you may have and move on with your life, you're not servants now.

[Golden]

[MENTION=19473]Golden[/MENTION]

Tilla Jogian

The definitions of indentured servitude and employment are all I need to convince me it's not semantics. Unless you can change the definitions of the terms then there's no hope for you. Write to Oxford dictionary in that case. What your problem is; you have an inferiority complex and that's why as we say in Pashto "sta pa kuna kai chinjee natsawi".

I'm not trying to act like a King; I don't glorify subjugating and tormenting Punjabis and robbing them of their self respect. But it happened and as we can see Toramana is proof.....so I'm sorry but the one living in denial is you. Now salvage whatever self respect you may have and move on with your life, you're not servants now.

Inferiority complex is something you like to say a lot but I don't think you know what it actually means. My ancestors never served your ancestors as kammi but afghani pathans does now from where I'm from. Toramana is self hater atheiest pathan (fake) nationalist not punjabi. In fact he's quite proud of being paracha pathan and used to brag how his family married pathan women from Afridi tribe which he presented as proof of their pathan paracha lineage.

Stop playing around semantics because it will not change what afghani pathans are doing in punjab.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Stop playing around semantics because it will not change what afghani pathans are doing in punjab and what they are known as.

When you can change the definitions of words; then you can call semantics. until then you have an inferiority complex.

Otherwise why would you be here? Clearly a Punjabi whose so affected by what Pashtuns on a forum think of him that he feels inferior.

[Golden]

When you can change the definitions of words; then you can call semantics. until then you have an inferiority complex.

Otherwise why would you be here? Clearly a Punjabi whose so affected by what Pashtuns think of him that he had to join a Pashtun forum in defense.

There are more afghanis on pakistani forums compared to single punjabi on pf. It's just a internet forum, calm down.

Being afghani pathan your inferiority complex is off the charts. It has to do with people afghani pathans need to serve to feed themselves. This is why you insult us on pf while pretending to be ignorant and in denial about what happens in real world.

Now imagine inferiority complex of next generation of afghani pathans in punjab who don't know any other life. This indirectly effect your big ego and is the reason for your inferiority complex.

[Khostai]

Khostwola mara demra ghatay kisay maaka.mizh kho de sar na kunay rasa pezhani che asay lota ye.

mo zaka pta wakra che darvegh mai de maleema wal.

I will talk the way I wish you stupid ass ****ing slave of punjab who sold his ass to the ISI.

To pekhtana de kra zaka to de ghaar zoy ye. To ghustal che achpal zon ghat wagaje. Gali to na ghairat na iman lare, zaka to de punjabiano ghulam spai ye.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There are more afghanis on pakistani forums compared to single punjabi on pf. It's just a internet forum, calm down.

Being afghani pathan your inferiority complex is off the charts. It has to do with people afghani pathans need to serve to feed themselves. This is why you insult us on pf while pretending to be ignorant and in denial about what happens in real world.

Now imagine inferiority complex of next generation of afghani pathans in punjab who don't know any other life. This indirectly effect your big ego and is the reason for your inferiority complex.

One key piece of evidence that you're suffering from an inferiority complex here is from the tone and language you use. I clearly said that I'm not bragging, but you keep suggesting that I am trying to be "a king"; it suggests that you view the mention of historical facts as a reminder of domination.

Another is your attempt to divorce Afghan Pashtuns from Pakistani Pashtuns; It was the people who are CURRENTLY Pakistani Pashtuns that were the ones who took Punjabis as their indentured servants (hamsaya). Afghans only did it with Tajiks and Hazaras. Your resentment should be with Pakistani Pashtuns (which I suspect it really is, but you're trying to be politically correct out of fear), but you seem to refer back to Afghan Pashtuns, because you have spite for Pashtuns in general.

Finally; you lack basic knowledge of how Pashtun hamsaya system worked. It's not the same as simply having a manual labor job which is what you believe it means. Being an indentured servant means you had NO other choice but to serve, you were not allowed to have property, all your earnings were for the people whose land you lived on. Furthermore you were a servant in your own land, since it was conquered by the Pashtun tribes. You also didn't have basic rights, which means you had no one to turn to for any grievances. you were completely at a Pashtun's mercy

The Manual Labor jobs in Pakistan may not have high repute, but that's not the same as being indentured. A person can always quit and get a different job or if there's problems, they can sue or litigate their employer. They have rights that a hamsaya doesn't. They can have their own land if they can afford it, make their own income. Also they are in someone else's land. A Pashtun even in manual labor is free to leave and be independent, a hamsaya is not, in fact many Punjabis died at the cruel hands of Pashtuns for trying to escape. Similar to how black slaves were treated in America. It's essentially the difference between slavery and being an employee.

So these details make a profound distinction ....and this is why your responses just tell us you have an inferiority complex; You can't cope with historical realities and lashing out blindly.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

History of Pashtuns is from Marwat parts of Pakistan, he knows a lot about hamsaya system when it came applied to Punjabis

[MENTION=18842]History of Pashtuns[/MENTION]

can you tell us more about hamsaya system worked? ...Tilla jogian is confused and thinks it just means being a manual laborer

[Golden]

. I clearly said that I'm not bragging, .

Come on now, that's is so obvious for everyone to see. You can't quite accept the fact your people serve those who you hate the most to feed themselves. You get defensive and insult us for this very reason.

That's is classic definition of inferioty complex.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Come on now, that's is so obvious for everyone to see. You can't quite accept the fact your people serve those who you hate the most to feed themselves. You get defensive and insult us for this very reason.

That's is classic definition of inferioty complex.

You're basically just copying what I wrote and trying to apply it on me; it doesn't work both ways unfortunately. the fact you're trying to deflect my words shows there's truth to what I wrote.

And I never insulted anyone; if you feel I insulted you, that's your inferiority complex talking.