How religious are you?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

lol

Your nice article was pointless.

Oh Dumbeeer, just because its hard for you to read it don't lash out so quickly loooool. Just connect the consonants and vowels to make Wooooords. LOL. Keep trying, itll stick eventually!

[Damir9000]

Oh Dumbeeer, just because its hard for you to read it don't lash out so quickly loooool. Just connect the consonants and vowels to make Wooooords. LOL. Keep trying, itll stick eventually!

I re-read it.
Your argument had nothing to do with what i said.

Here is what I said:
No actually more & more people (& Muslims) are realizing it.
The cat is out of the bag.
All thanks to the Internet.

That's also why many Muslims leave Islam.


and this is what you replied with:

By analysing the data, we can conclude that the slowing growth of Islam is unrelated to the rise of the internet. It is much more likely that the decline of the fertility of women in Muslim countries deserves most of the blame. The following chart shows that the decrease in fertility is proportional to the decrease in the growth of the Muslim population, which makes sense considering that fertility is one of the primary factors in the growth of any population subset.

I said the Cat is out of the bag (no scientific miracles in Quran)
because of the Internet.

and that many Muslims leave when they realize this after reading into it.
I get this info from talking to & hearing from other ExMuslims.

I did not say the rise of the internet is the reason why people leave Islam.

So, again.
Your link was pointless.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I re-read it.
Your argument had nothing to do with what i said.

Here is what I said:
No actually more & more people (& Muslims) are realizing it.
The cat is out of the bag.
All thanks to the Internet.

That's also why many Muslims leave Islam.


and this is what you replied with:



I said the Cat is out of the bag (no scientific miracles in Quran)
because of the Internet.

and that many Muslims leave when they realize this after reading into it.
I get this info from talking to & hearing from other ExMuslims.

I did not say the rise of the internet is the reason why people leave Islam.

So, again.
Your link was pointless.

LOL. So the original post seems to have been edited out or removed. But in any case, your translation into English from Roach Talk was deplorable. No where in that post or even the one you were answering was the answer or word science utilized.

And even if we were to somehow accept that is what you originally meant, despite your dubious ability to launch red herrings that end up being turd rockets ...

Even that allegation regarding Science and the Quran being discussed online being the impetus, or even an leading one for becoming non Muslims is not supported. Certainly there may be a few people here and there who read an Answering Islam site or ponder over the creation of Adam and decide that this contradicts their view of evolution etc. But just many take on the mantle of Francis Collins in all the Abrahamic Faiths and actually do not experience influence.

So in summary you basically just went from stating one unsupported view to another.... especially since the concept of Abrahamic creation stories and the evolution issue predate the internet and were well known in the Western world and have recently come into play in the East in urban centers...

More often in the Muslim nations the conflict is a more exaggerated political conflict between political militant religionists and militant secularists where the latter group has a smattering of religious people that dont see a public role for religion and some hardcore atheists.... but these people hardly cite the internet as the reason for their issues with Islam vs differences in social and governance paradigms (e.g. the age of Marxism and Feudalism in Afghanistan and now the age of Capitalistic economies and globalization).

I know these concepts are too much for Roach brain but maybe your roach offspring, should you acquire mating potential, will grasp them

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I re-read it.
Your argument had nothing to do with what i said.

Here is what I said:
No actually more & more people (& Muslims) are realizing it.
The cat is out of the bag.
All thanks to the Internet.

That's also why many Muslims leave Islam.


and this is what you replied with:



I said the Cat is out of the bag (no scientific miracles in Quran)
because of the Internet.

and that many Muslims leave when they realize this after reading into it.
I get this info from talking to & hearing from other ExMuslims.

I did not say the rise of the internet is the reason why people leave Islam.

So, again.
Your link was pointless.

Ah here is his comment:

s ok, keep telling yourself that, I'm sure it's more consoling for those of weaker disposition.

and yours is as above. No mention of science vs the Quran on the net... just you trying to translate Roach antennae vibrations into English parlance but doing a sh-itty job. LOL.

Keep going Dumbeer. This is entertaining.

[Khostai]

Calling someone a "Paki Troll" is basically a cheap way of avoiding uncomfortable ideas.

Killing people who have diffrent view on live is a thing that dirty porkis love to do.

[Damir9000]

LOL. So the original post seems to have been edited out or removed. But in any case, your translation into English from Roach Talk was deplorable. No where in that post or even the one you were answering was the answer or word science utilized.

And even if we were to somehow accept that is what you originally meant, despite your dubious ability to launch red herrings that end up being turd rockets ...

Even that allegation regarding Science and the Quran being discussed online being the impetus, or even an leading one for becoming non Muslims is not supported. Certainly there may be a few people here and there who read an Answering Islam site or ponder over the creation of Adam and decide that this contradicts their view of evolution etc. But just many take on the mantle of Francis Collins in all the Abrahamic Faiths and actually do not experience influence.

None my three responses regarding this subject were Edited you can go check.


My reply that preceded that one you are hung over on,
is this:

I guess people aren't up to date.
There are no Scientific Miracles in Quran.
It's a lie that Muslims keep spreading to help keep their faith.

There are no scientific Miracles in Quran. It is well known.

You need to calm down.

I was sharing an opinion about what I noticed from talking to & reading from other ExMuslims.
I don't need to have it supported with study.

The Scientific Miracles in Quran claim is being pushed by a lot of Muslims to validate Islam.
I know this because i have witness it and many others.
Once it is discovered that you were lied, you star doubting the religion.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

None my three responses regarding this subject were Edited you can go check.


My reply that preceded that one you are hung over on,
is this:

I guess people aren't up to date.
There are no Scientific Miracles in Quran.
It's a lie that Muslims keep spreading to help keep their faith.

There are no scientific Miracles in Quran. It is well known.

You need to calm down.

I was sharing an opinion about what I noticed from talking to & reading from other ExMuslims.
I don't need to have it supported with study.

The Scientific Miracles in Quran claim is being pushed by a lot of Muslims to validate Islam.
I know this because i have witness it and many others.
Once it is discovered that you were lied, makes it a whole easier to leave it.

First of all, if some person, untrained in science, even in the sub specialty of the science that they want to validate in their religious text... makes a claim and you emotionalize this because you at one point or another were susceptible to missionary tactics instead of spiritual analysis and historical processing of a religion... that's on you Roach... not on the missionary. Missionaries of all faiths play team sports.

Now, if an embryologist remarks on a verse positive or negative with respect to science that covers that subject - and another embryologist provides a counter argument - its up to a smart discerning reader to digest and determine what that means to them.

The Quran that I read surely did not set out to be Guyton's Physiology ... it refers to itself as a book of guidance for aspects of morality and spirituality.

If an online Muslim reads about universal expansion and sees the verse regarding "and we are ever expanding it" and decides to stake his claim on it - he opens himself up to a debate that should take place on the level of astronomers and physicists.

If on the other hand, you and your ilk are doing the opposite and taking poetic points of language and trying to justify rejecting Islam based on an analysis of said verse - well then you are as dubious as the missionaries.

For instance, the English grammer is -

"The sun has set."

We all know the sun does not move. However, countless poets even after Galileo expressed their words and comparisons to the sunset and made the sun the active player.

So if the Quran utilizes the langauge: "And Dhul Qarnain proceeded to a body of murky water where was the setting of the sun."

And you decide to take a verse that linguistically distills down to

"The King marched and marched till he reached a point of no more land and went extreme West or East and saw the sunset at the ocean side" The sorts of sunsets I have witnessed driving across the country from one end to the other...

And you claim a poetic device is literal (ie the Quran is saying the sun hides in water) I think you as well are being dubious without a fair perspective on the poetic language of the Quran.

If the verse on the other hand talked about Dhul Qarnain taking a swim and touching the sun and getting a leprachaun with gold out of it... I would say you have a point and I would actually applaud your zeal in questioning that.

My point Roach boy, is that irrespective of what you meant - your concern with missionary tactics as opposed to simply saying:

1. Bible ---> Data
2. Quran ---> Data
3. Gita ---> Data

etc

4. Hadith and classic literature ---> Additional light shedding data
5. Writings of the church fathers ---> etc
6 etc etc

And dissecting the texts accordingly even in the light of secular humanist tendencies point to you having big time Roach issues.

And the same goes for Francis Collins. He is an evolutionary and genetic biologist.

If he goes and attempts to prove the Bible's scientific authenticity by trying to step out of his specialty and acting like an astronomer to explain plants preceding the sunlight... well then I don't think hes a credible voice on that.

On the other hand, if a group of astronomers discuss the verses and posit theories on their fallibility or correctness and even offer alternative views ... I think that is an interesting discussion to be hand for all.

Now a third option does exist and a very smart scientist like Collins may understand how academia works and may go to the latest journals in Astronomy and Physics and Space Science and if he is honest he will find a universal set of articles that cover his concept and will honestly try to gauge where the bible verses align with the cutting edge theories and which do not and present that information honestly.

Or for that matter, as another example... we commonly use the term regarding our children when we speak in English - "The fruit of my loins" We use this even in the scientific era.

Men have noted the association between sperm coming out of them and going into women for centuries ... nonetheless that artifact of that region (the loins) persists across many languages (the Western languages, the Eastern Languages, the African languages (Arabic/Hebrew etc)

So for the "ex Muslims" to seize upon a verse that goes "mim bayni was sulbi wataraaib" - ie man comes from the loins... and to claim that this clear language that rhymes in short poetic rapid fire verses like in Surah Tariq is a clear cogent example of the Quran being utterly wrong and that anyone with an iota of scientific training must now reject it ipso fact based on that... is utterly absurd.

Now, the creation of man story in all the Abrahamic faiths is clearly a series of verses in all the books that lend themselves to attack/discussion and very fair game but as Collins writes about in his famed book, the Language of God:

http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.amazon.com/The-Language-God-Scientist-Presents/dp/1416542744&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj17uHY35vMAhXGJiYKHb1xBREQFggUMAA&usg=AFQjCNFHCx4zXmvzG75Kvj8fF1a1it0Cew

He has a bit more to offer there as an evolutionary scientist and Dawkins takes some issues with Collins but respects him and remains aghast that brilliant scientist like Collins who mapped out the human genome remains a believer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins

At the end of the day, people will have to read on their own and decide if they accept Collins's views or take Dawkin's side on this.

But your retarded approach to somehow thinking that all of us are sitting here throwing the Quran at people as if its the scientific equivalent of Harrison's medical or what not .. its the dumbest thing I have heard.

I have yet to meet a Muslim that attempts Dawah or even discussions that way.

Most discussions I have been around contrast and compare morality and spirituality in the context of the Biblical tradition versus the Quran.

I've seen a copy of Bucaille's book lying around a mosque on travels but even that cannot be blamed on Muslims since Bucaille undertook that comparison all by himself.

Roach, you have a lot of growing up to do lol. I am sure you will provide much entertainment as you go through your insect life cycle and learning.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

None my three responses regarding this subject were Edited you can go check.


My reply that preceded that one you are hung over on,
is this:

I guess people aren't up to date.
There are no Scientific Miracles in Quran.
It's a lie that Muslims keep spreading to help keep their faith.

There are no scientific Miracles in Quran. It is well known.

You need to calm down.

I was sharing an opinion about what I noticed from talking to & reading from other ExMuslims.
I don't need to have it supported with study.

The Scientific Miracles in Quran claim is being pushed by a lot of Muslims to validate Islam.
I know this because i have witness it and many others.
Once it is discovered that you were lied, you star doubting the religion.

All that being said, if some untrained person in science decides he wants to "prove " the Quran to a college educated kid and doesn't know what the heck he is talking about ... he's being foolish because he doesn't have the right to say he knows all the running theories or potential pros and cons regarding the verse is he is citing to make his point. In that instance, I agree with you fully. These people are doing more harm than good.

If on the other hand a person like Bucaille wants to compare religious texts as a generally trained biologist and see which one has a great affinity for modern understanding ... I think its fair game

However, what he would need to do is do this fairly and do what book editors so and pick out all the verses and classify them according to what scientific concept he is attempting to compare them to.

He should then collate experts in each sub section and have them write their chapters on the subject and provide cogent references. E.g., a biologist should not be analyzing or discussing verses on the universe's design ... an embryologist should not be commenting on the verses dealing with the creation of man instead of an evolutionary biologist and so on and so forth.

And once anonymously done, anonymous reviewers should have the option to criticize these writings and provide counter weight evidence.

At the end of the day, its a useless exercise, but my underlying point is that the concept of scientific reconciliation and scrutiny of the Quranic text in any of the masajid I have attended were never ever discussed. The overwhelming majority of the Quran is:

1. Commands on how to conduct daily affairs in some business matters, penal codes, and moral circumstances
2. Stories of the Prophets as parables making points
3. Poetic device like Surah Rahman where God demands the reader to take a look a the grandeur around him in a spiritual fashion and deny God.
4. 2 verses issuing literary challenges as opposed to any science challenge with respect to validating the Quran.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Killing people who have diffrent view on live is a thing that dirty porkis love to do.

even your zigar khoon, Mr. Karachi?

[Khostai]

even your zigar khoon, Mr. Karachi?

Karachi is not a dirty porki. He is a normal Pakistany. There is a diffrence.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Karachi is not a dirty porki. He is a normal Pakistany. There is a diffrence.

The difference being one agrees with your views and the other doesn't? ZING!!!

[Khostai]

The difference being one agrees with your views and the other doesn't? ZING!!!

Nope the diffrence is he sees the reality and is not a homicidal **** who wants to kill other people just becuase they have a diffrent view on relligion and culture. You can be conservative and hardcore muslim wahabi all you want if you just respect other people belives and life then I dont care, but if you publicaly going to shout for killing them. Then you are a dirty porkistany.

[Karachi]

The kind that can multi-task were the 24/7 comment accurate LOL. Some of us are ahead in the reproductive race and don't need to spend inordinate time chasing Jennifer like you do.

We've discussed many many many concepts here repeatedly. Others and I have talked about Maliki and Hanafi interpretations of rape punishments etc.

I discuss "serious" concepts with men, not b-itch slaves that play the equivalent of "white-face" and whose go to response is "You know you are being sneaky and using Taqiyah." If I have a thousand jar head hillbillies I can use for that go to answer.

You're not a doctor, stop faking it, you are even here at 3 am for crying out loud, hardly anyone listens to you on this forum. You should become a Talib cave doctor, that is where you belong

[Karachi]

So what if it came from India, I am not ashamed of my bhuddist past. Unlike you biharami wannabe be aghandu *******

You are Indian, admit it

[Karachi]

The alleged decline of Muslims in Immigrant communities seems more connected to inferiority complex and the psychological damage of being mentally colonized.

whatever the reason maybe, it is declining