hi.... a question I have about a girl

[tilla_jogian]

thanks for the advice bro, it's nice to see people like you, if it wasn't for my afghan friends, i would have probably disliked you guys, thank god he did introduce to me a variety of people from different background

I hope so but it's not easy, I'm not exactly attracted to Pakistani girls either, I think it's some of there attitudes, it'd be easier though to marry a Pakistani girl cause of similarities, i hope I find someone I can relate to.

Then you should die randi because marrying afghani will be against ideology of Pakistan.

[life1234]

Then you should die randi because marrying afghani will be against ideology of Pakistan.

[Samandri]

Its the testasterone of this horny under 18 teenager which is speaking, and some of you are seriously giving him advice?

[randolph85]

Urban Kabuli? They would let their daughters marry anyone. Race, gender, religion, I mean anyone.

Rural religious Pashtuns? you might have some problems there bro.

[Samandri]

If afghanis were for sale then USA and Russia would have taken them over. You punjabis are for sale, you were bought by the British and you still bend your ass over for dollars its in your punjabi blood to be sellouts, currupt criminals and perverts, the whole world hates you. Take a trip around the west, out of all the Muslim women the most shameless women are the punjabi females, ask around if you don't believe me.

The practice of taking cash for bride (i.e selling) does exists in Afghanistan and parts of Pakhtunkhwa. I dont know whether those parents sell their daughters to punjabis or just to pashtuns. There are Price tags on girls and they are sold like goats and sheeps. Its called walwar and the cash is not entirely paid to bride like haq-e-mehr but goes on expenditures of weddings as well and i assume some portion of it is kept by parents.

When Syed Ahmad Bareilwi from India, a wahabi, came to peshawar valley and he noticed that pashtuns here, most noticeably of Mardan and Swabi, are following this unislamic custom. He decided to finish it but met opposition from Yusufzai chiefs of Mardan.Things escalated to such level that most of his indian followers were murdered in one day.
Sources tell us that those Yusufzais refused to marry their daughters to indian mujahideen of bareilwi, as they considered indians racially inferior. So i guess this selling business is in between pashtuns.

[tilla_jogian]

The practice of taking cash for bride (i.e selling) does exists in Afghanistan and parts of Pakhtunkhwa. I dont know whether those parents sell their daughters to punjabis or just to pashtuns. There are Price tags on girls and they are sold like goats and sheeps. Its called walwar and the cash is not paid to bride like haq-e-mehr but goes to pocket of head of household.
When Syed Ahmad Bareilwi from India, a wahabi, came to peshawar valley and he noticed that pashtuns here, most noticeably of Mardan and Swabi, are following this unislamic custom. He decided to finish it but met opposition from Yusufzai chiefs of Mardan.Things escalated to such level that most of his indian followers were murdered in one day.
Sources tell us that those Yusufzais refused to sell their daughters to indian mujahideen of bareilwi, as they considered indians racially inferior. So i guess this selling business is between pashtuns.

This is very famous practice and afghanis sell them to anyone with cash. Every one is aware of this practice, its temporary for most cases but girl life is ruined for ever. Love affair is never involved, so if OP is serious then paying for her is the only logical option. This is better then selling her to some tharki bhuddha (from what I have seen this is more likely the case) who will get rid of her in couple of years.

I read in your blog that barelwi guy simply wanted to marry UP pathans with afghanis. Never heard of money/selling thing, you probably made this up on the as usual.

[Samandri]

This is very famous practice and afghanis sell them to anyone with cash. Every one is aware of this practice, its temporary for most cases but girl life is ruined for ever. Love affair is never involved, so if OP is serious then paying for her is the only logical option. This is better then selling her to some tharki bhuddha (from what I have seen this is more likely the case) who will get rid of her in couple of years.

I read in your blog that barelwi guy simply wanted to marry UP pathans with afghanis. Never heard of money/selling thing, you probably made this up on the as usual.

You can check history section of Peshawar Gazetteer and Sir Olaf' Careo's 'the Pathans' which are available some where online. Other references are not available online but i have books with me. It was H.B.Bellow who writes in his book,Notes on Yousafzais, "The Sayyid's foreign agents (Indian Mujahideen) had been forcibly taking the Afghan maidens as wives". It feels to me more like a gossip and attempt of slandering Bareilwi's character . But its true that Syed did ask his Pashtun followers to give their daughters in marriage to his Indian followers most of whom were singles, it is also recorded that his Pashtun followers refused to obey his this wish. But he didnt force them,

The resentment was already there. Earlier, Bareilwi had issued the command that there will be no head money i.e walwar on the Pashtun brides. He was also very strict in extracting 'ushar'. The trouble started when Bareilwi spoke against walwar and then advocated the marriage of all single women of marriageable age.This antagonized the Yousafzais (Mandanrs to be precise). Barewli was accused that he was assigning maidens one by one to his needy followers. According to Careo, Syed Ahmad generated an emotional wave but failed to control it.

In my previous post , i mistakenly wrote "Yousafzais refused to sell their daughters to indian followers of Sayyid", I was meant to write 'refuse to wed ...i have edited the post.

My views on Bareilwi are much changed with time. That man, even though he was Taliban-like, was the only hope who could stop Sikh occupation of KPK. He knew about military organization (Had served in army of state of Tonk) and punished those Pashtun chiefs who broke discipline and run away during the battle with Sikhs. He was eager to create a stable state first before expanding his Jihad and bring the petty local chiefs under his control some of whom were conspiring with Sikhs. What he was lacking was, the understanding of ways of Pashtuns and their tribal nature. In my opinion Allah punished Pashtuns by inflicting Hari Singh on them for what they did to Syed Ahmed and his followers. Even though invasions from Sikhs were going on, Pashtun chiefs were attacking each other and Syed's band like donkeys and some of them even were in league with Sikhs for money and positions. The Mandanrs (improperly called Yousafzais of plain) of Mardan and Hoti tappas were the most prominent opponents of Syed Ahmad and they were the ones who suffered the most at the hands of Hari Singh Nalwa.

Yousafzai Pakhtun what does local traditions and literature say about Syed Ahmad Bareilwi?

[Manzareh]

The practice of taking cash for bride (i.e selling) does exists in Afghanistan and parts of Pakhtunkhwa. I dont know whether those parents sell their daughters to punjabis or just to pashtuns. There are Price tags on girls and they are sold like goats and sheeps. Its called walwar and the cash is not paid to bride like haq-e-mehr but goes to pocket of head of household.

When Syed Ahmad Bareilwi from India, a wahabi, came to peshawar valley and he noticed that pashtuns here, most noticeably of Mardan and Swabi, are following this unislamic custom. He decided to finish it but met opposition from Yusufzai chiefs of Mardan.Things escalated to such level that most of his indian followers were murdered in one day.
Sources tell us that those Yusufzais refused to marry their daughters to indian mujahideen of bareilwi, as they considered indians racially inferior. So i guess this selling business is in between pashtuns.

Listen go anywhere in the world, if people are poor enough they will sell anything. If I go to Pakistan and offer a Punjabi family that is living in poverty some money for their daughter they will not say no.

Bareilwi was a wahabi? That's strange both those names are complete opposites now and enemies.

[Samandri]

Listen go anywhere in the world, if people are poor enough they will sell anything. If I go to Pakistan and offer a Punjabi family that is living in poverty some money for their daughter they will not say no.

Bareilwi was a wahabi? That's strange both those names are complete opposites now and enemies.

Nope, it is a custom rather than a poverty issue. Lets not hide it under carpet. With this money, the bride's family pays the expenditures of marriage for their daughter but the fact remains that daughter is sold like a commodity and are treated as burden. These walwar, swara, Ghagh etc are Jahilia practices, we must get rid of it. To give you an idea, When IDPs from Swat descended down to Mardan, Swabi, Peshawar etc, they gave their daughters in marraige to locals at various price tags in cash, as low as 20 thousand rupees, to ease off the burden. Wazirs and Mehsuds do not practice walwar in this way, so when they became IDPs, they didnt do such thing. Turis, Orakakzais and Shinwaris practice walwar more like selling, Afridis dont and so on

Punjabis dont sell their daughters. Like Hindus, Bride there has to pay heavy jehaiz (dowry) no matter how much her family is poor. This Hindu-ish custom is followed religiously by punjabis, groom family there are some times more interested in jehaiz than bride.

Bareilly is city in India, bareilwi simply means inhabitant of that city. This bareilwi of 1780-1831 has nothing to do with the founder of bareilwi school of thought of 1901, Raza Ahmad Khan bareilwi. This city was capital of Rohilla-Afghans and the founder of bareilwi maslak himself was a descendant of pashtuns.

[life1234]

In my opinion, Balochs are finer specimens than Pashtuns. Not only they have a honour code similar to Pashtunwali, called Baloch-mayar, but they also lack the despicable vices that exists among Pashtuns. For example they dont sell their daughters. They do not treat their women like goats and sheeps and give them some degree of liberty, and do not lock them in burqas, while at the same time do not allow their women to go over-board in liberty that exists in Punjab and India. They , unlike Pashtuns, are not religious bigots and fanatics.

i got a question,

1)what is wrong with punjabi women?? i know some are liberal, i got those kind of women in my family, but my mum is conservative and modest women, she never went overboard, but the overall problem, is it that they are liberal? many are increasing ditching shalwar kameez for burqas and abayas, though this does depend

2)Do punjabis have a similar code of conduct as the Baloch or the Pashtun do in Baloch Mayar, or Pashtunwali, what about in Afghanistan, do tajiks, hazaras etc have there own code of conducts

3)I know I hear Pashtuns Afg to be more conservative but what the others, tajiks, hazara, are they more progressive as they would say?

[tilla_jogian]

i got a question,

1)what is wrong with punjabi women?? i know some are liberal, i got those kind of women in my family, but my mum is conservative and modest women, she never went overboard, but the overall problem, is it that they are liberal? many are increasing ditching shalwar kameez for burqas and abayas, though this does depend

2)Do punjabis have a similar code of conduct as the Baloch or the Pashtun do in Baloch Mayar, or Pashtunwali, what about in Afghanistan, do tajiks, hazaras etc have there own code of conducts

3)I know I hear Pashtuns Afg to be more conservative but what the others, tajiks, hazara, are they more progressive as they would say?

Your 2) question is quite stupid and exposes you. There is no written code among punjabis, how strict one is depend on biraderi in rural areas. They compare afghani women in taliban burqa with urban punjabi women in Islamabad and Lahore and find them liberal. Any punjabi will know this, when you are going to log in from karachi id?

[tilla_jogian]

You can check history section of Peshawar Gazetteer and Sir Olaf' Careo's 'the Pathans' which are available some where online. Other references are not available online but i have books with me. It was H.B.Bellow who writes in his book,Notes on Yousafzais, "The Sayyid's foreign agents (Indian Mujahideen) had been forcibly taking the Afghan maidens as wives". It feels to me more like a gossip and attempt of slandering Bareilwi's character . But its true that Syed did ask his Pashtun followers to give their daughters in marriage to his Indian followers most of whom were singles, it is also recorded that his Pashtun followers refused to obey his this wish. But he didnt force them,

The resentment was already there. Earlier, Bareilwi had issued the command that there will be no head money i.e walwar on the Pashtun brides. He was also very strict in extracting 'ushar'. The trouble started when Bareilwi spoke against walwar and then advocated the marriage of all single women of marriageable age.This antagonized the Yousafzais (Mandanrs to be precise). Barewli was accused that he was assigning maidens one by one to his needy followers. According to Careo, Syed Ahmad generated an emotional wave but failed to control it.

In my previous post , i mistakenly wrote "Yousafzais refused to sell their daughters to indian followers of Sayyid", I was meant to write 'refuse to wed ...i have edited the post.

My views on Bareilwi are much changed with time. That man, even though he was Taliban-like, was the only hope who could stop Sikh occupation of KPK. He knew about military organization (Had served in army of state of Tonk) and punished those Pashtun chiefs who broke discipline and run away during the battle with Sikhs. He was eager to create a stable state first before expanding his Jihad and bring the petty local chiefs under his control some of whom were conspiring with Sikhs. What he was lacking was, the understanding of ways of Pashtuns and their tribal nature. In my opinion Allah punished Pashtuns by inflicting Hari Singh on them for what they did to Syed Ahmed and his followers. Even though invasions from Sikhs were going on, Pashtun chiefs were attacking each other and Syed's band like donkeys and some of them even were in league with Sikhs for money and positions. The Mandanrs (improperly called Yousafzais of plain) of Mardan and Hoti tappas were the most prominent opponents of Syed Ahmad and they were the ones who suffered the most at the hands of Hari Singh Nalwa.

Yousafzai Pakhtun what does local traditions and literature say about Syed Ahmad Bareilwi?

Yeah as I said selling buying thing was not involved and thats where barelwi made mistake. Also these "hindustanis" were rohilla pashtuns and not random hindustanis trying to liberate pashtun lands from sikhs.

[Samandri]

Yeah as I said selling buying thing was not involved and thats where barelwi made mistake. Also these "hindustanis" were rohilla pashtuns and not random hindustanis trying to liberate pashtun lands from sikhs.

Syed Ahmad himself claimed that , before settlement in Rohilkhand, his Syed family was settled in Yusufzai country and was part of Pashtun nation, migrated from there to India He had also served in state of Tonk (Rajasthan) ruled by Yusufzais. A very thorough planning and background was involved in choosing Peshawar valley for his Jihad, it was not random choice.

As these Rohillas were urdu-sepakers by that time and much changed, so were called "Hindostani" by Pashtuns of Peshawar valley. British also refer to them as "Hindostani fanatics". Yusufzais of plains became opponents of Syed Ahmed but in Swat and Torghar , he had large support.Because of this support, "Hindustani fanatics", as they were called by British, gave trouble to British as far as 1890s in black mountains.

Some interesting side info. There were three regions in Westren U.P ruled by Pashtuns, one was Bangash territory, another was Rohilkhand or Katehr under the rule of Hafiz Rehmat Khan and some other chiefs, their capital being Bareilly. Another comprised of all the districts west of Rohilkhand , ruled by Najib-ud-daula Yousafzay (the wazir and later Mir Bakhshi of Mughals) and his descendants. Saharanpur where Deoband is located, was part of najib's jagir. He was adhered to Shah Waliullah and he patronized his work and teachings.

[Manzareh]

Nope, it is a custom rather than a poverty issue. Lets not hide it under carpet. With this money, the bride's family pays the expenditures of marriage for their daughter but the fact remains that daughter is sold like a commodity and are treated as burden. These walwar, swara, Ghagh etc are Jahilia practices, we must get rid of it. To give you an idea, When IDPs from Swat descended down to Mardan, Swabi, Peshawar etc, they gave their daughters in marraige to locals at various price tags in cash, as low as 20 thousand rupees, to ease off the burden. Wazirs and Mehsuds do not practice walwar, so when they became IDPs, they didnt do such thing. Turis, Orakakzais and Shinwaris practice walwar, Afridis dont and so on

Punjabis dont sell their daughters. Like Hindus, Bride there has to pay heavy jehaiz (dowry) no matter how much her family is poor. This Hindu-ish custom is followed religiously by punjabis, groom family there are some times more interested in jehaiz than bride.

Bareilly is city in India, bareilwi simply means inhabitant of that city. This bareilwi of 1780-1831 has nothing to do with the founder of bareilwi school of thought of 1901, Raza Ahmad Khan bareilwi. This city was capital of Rohilla-Afghans and the founder of bareilwi maslak himself was a descendant of pashtuns.

If it's not a poverty issue then answer me this, have you heard or come accross a wealthy family practice walwar? I don't think so.

[Samandri]

If it's not a poverty issue then answer me this, have you heard or come accross a wealthy family practice walwar? I don't think so.

You were very sure that it is a general issue that exists in every community , you said one can buy bride in Punjab from poor . I merely corrected you that it is more of a custom than the case of succumbing to poverty.Proof is, poor people in Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan dont practice walwar. Keep in mind, its not the type of selling which you see in human trafficking and some poor parents from across the world would sell their kids to feed themselves. Walwar is custom among Pashtuns, just like Jahaiz is custom among Punjabis. The more wealthy is the girl or birdegroom, higher is the price tag.....in some cases it reaches to crores. Most of it is consumed in expenditures of marriage and rest is returned to daughter as jahiaz i.e girl's family is free from burden of expenditures. In my area, the girl's family is entirely paid in zar, gold and it goes to bride. Pashtuns here are disrespecting the already existing haq-e-mahar that exist in Islam. And i have read in a report about Shinwaris that the father simply keep the cash he receives in walwar which indicate that definitions of walwar varies from tribe to tribe , from region to region.

This bride price custom is not specific to Pashtuns, It is practiced by Hazaras of central Afghanistan, central asians call it qalin while Tajiks call it haqqi shir Soviets put ban on Qalin custom but the effort failed and it thrives in central asia.

@marwat @Da Bannu Mazdigar , am i correct or i am mistaken some wher e?