On the origins of jalaludin rumi

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Stop being a juvenile

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Rumi was a homosexual and a pedophile. I believe this to be so because of the following three reasons:

First of all, Persian poetry is essentially a gay/homo-erotic poetry. Persian poets have always used gay love and pedarasty in their poetry. In fact, there is even a book written to describe the extent of perarasty in Persian literature:

شاهدبازی در ادبیات فارسی

The book is written by an Iranian scholar of Persian literature. Basically, it describes how homosexuality and pedarasty define the essence of what is considered typical Persian poetry.

The second reason is the presence of homo erotic verses in Rumi's poetry and homosexual and child abuse found in biographies of Rumi written by fellow Sufis who revered him.

With regards to Rumi's own poetry, I make the following observation: Defendors of Rumi and obscurantism usually refuse to acknowledge the true meaning of Rumi's poetry because there are many ambiguous verses in his poems. But the fact that those ambiguous verses are typical and standard homo erotic expressions in Persion poetry in general is the reason why it is safe to say that the verses are not misinterpreted by opponents of Rumi. Rumi was a Persian and he was very well aware of what certain metaphors commonly used in Persian literature actually mean. When he chose to use those metaphors extensively, he did so because he embraced the culture of pedarasty and homosexuality. His poems are manifestations of his own personal persuation and sexual orientation.

The biography of Rumi written by fellow Sufis give us the context of Rumi's life and his poetry. By studying his biography written by his own admirers, we discover shocking passages where Rumi and his master Shams Tabrizi are revealed as child molestors and homosexuals.

Here is a passage of such a biography where Rumi is pimping his own family:

روزی شمس الدین، از مولانا شاهدی زیباروی التماس کرد. مولانا حرم خود را در دست گرفته در میان آورد و فرمود که: او خواهر جانی من است. [شمس]گفت: نازنین پسری می خواهم. [مولوی]فی الحال فرزند خود سلطان ولد را پیش آورد [و] فرمود که: وی فرزند من است. [شمس گفت]: حالیا اگر قدری شراب دست می داد ذوقی می کردم. مولانا بیرون آمد و سبویی از محله جهودان پر کرده بر گردن خود بیاورد.

نفحات الانس ص ۴۶۶ با تصحیح مهدی توحیدی پور


The practice of pedarasty and homosexuality in Sufism was known even in the times of Ibn Jawzi. The famous classic book of Ibn Jawzi called Talbees Iblees vividly describes the gay nature of sufism in his era. He died centuries ago. Long before "Wahhabis" emerged.

Anyone who is genuinely interested in knowing the true nature of Sufism and Its main protagonist, Rumi, will find plenty of evidence in Rumi's own poems and his biographies and some general knowledge of Persian culture and literature. This is why I have always said that those who defend Rumi are either extremely ignorant or staunch defendors of obscurantism, pedarasty and homosexuality.

Savage, is unable to defend Persian literature and Sufism in a sensible manner so he throws around cheap insults and makes silly childish accusations.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Translate it word for word since I don't know Farsi that fluently.

Basically what I get from your circular rhetoric is that you don't have any solid, concrete evidence just hear say and projecting your own spin....which only tells us more about where your mind wanders than anything.

[randolph85]

LOL You are the bigest hypocrie here, you say nothing when one of your dogs barcks here like they have rabies, but you get all emotional and buthurt when I say womthing. Go **** yourself slave.

My "dogs" can put together coherent sentences, while you and the like seem like drunkards every time you post.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Translate it word for word since I don't know Farsi that fluently.

Basically what I get from your circular rhetoric is that you don't have any solid, concrete evidence just hear say and projecting your own spin....which only tells us more about where your mind wanders than anything.

If you cant even Farsi, what makes you so sure his poetry isn't gay?

And no I am not going to translate it. Anyone who knows Farsi and is able to read the two Farsi books I referenced and the Arabic book by Ibn Jawzi will have enough evidence to conclude that the main protagonist of Sufism was a George Michael of the Middle Ages.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Hahahaha I see your scam now ....It doesn't work that way, if you made a claim you have to demonstrate the evidence to affirm your claim. So far you've made a lot of leading commentary ......but haven't actually demonstrated where in Rumi's works does he convey what you accuse him of.

Ibn Jawzi and some random writer who wrote some book with some explicit motive doesn't cut it.

Get translating .........From Rumi's works of course......Remember you said it's in his poetry? Show us.

[khushal]

Well, I'm just giving my understanding here.

All Muslims believe in the 5 prayers but Wahhabis look at it more mechanically than from an internal spiritual journey. They're more concerned with the mechanics rather than aligning the essence with the mechanics.

Sort of like "going through the motions" but without the same level of "heart" involved.

It would be unfair to say that every wahabi that prays does not have his/her heart in it just like it would be unfair to say that every sufi has his/her heart in it. That would be up to the individual and wahabis dont preach to not have their heart in prayer. If one truly understand the meaning of the words that are said in prayer, it would be difficult for the person not to have his/her heart in it.

From what I have read, Wahabis take the literal interpretation of the Quran while the Sufis do not. You can see this in your debate with @Shamlawar, if you take Rumis poems literally, it would seem he is a homosexual and a drunk or promoting those behaviors. Rumi spoke early modern persian which is older than Shakespeare's early modern English and most English speakers today can not truly understand Shakespeare writings just like the vast majority of Persian speakers would not be able to really understand Rumi's poetry and one must look at the cultural aspect of his time in order to truly judge him. I mean Western raised people like you and Shamlawar have said Afghans holding hands is Homo because you are looking at it through Western cultural norm lenses similar to Shamlawar looking at Rumi the same way.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION]

you strike a great point, honestly I feel you're conveying more of what my intention was. I was somewhat clumsy in my writing. 20/20 Hindsight I guess.

What I mean is that the doctrine of the Wahhabis versus the Sufi Path stress different focuses. The Sufi Path focuses on the inner illumination, some may call it Ilham or Ma'ariah, where as the Wahhabi doctrine seems more preoccupied with hand placement, how rolled up your pants are. This is ALSO my experience from the types of Masajid I've visited in my lifetime.

But you're correct, you may have a Wahhabi who through deep concentration during their Salah achieve an inner awakening or illumination, While you have these Trend Hopper such as Badlun who just exploit the word Sufi for their own empty pursuits and objectives.

[abdul_]

when did the word sufi came into common use? in all classical literature including rumi there is not even once the word sufi or tawasuf is used