On the origins of jalaludin rumi

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Isnt the 5 prayers mysticism and spirituality?

Wahabis believe in that.

Well, I'm just giving my understanding here.

All Muslims believe in the 5 prayers but Wahhabis look at it more mechanically than from an internal spiritual journey. They're more concerned with the mechanics rather than aligning the essence with the mechanics.

Sort of like "going through the motions" but without the same level of "heart" involved.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Well, I'm just giving my understanding here.

All Muslims believe in the 5 prayers but Wahhabis look at it more mechanically than from an internal spiritual journey. They're more concerned with the mechanics rather than aligning the essence with the mechanics.

Sort of like "going through the motions" but without the same level of "heart" involved.

"Your understanding" is incorrect. Mysticism & Spirituality are two abstract concepts. Sufis always use abstract terms to define their methodology which is in essence onscurantism. It's blind trust in a murshid who never reveals what he is actually saying. This is why there are so many Sufi tariqah's and most of them are involved polytheism and other sorts un-Islamic activities.

The truth is, true spiritual education is as Kushal said, in the routine acts of worship like the 5 prayers. We only know what is revealed in the Quran and the sunnah. Anything which is not found in Quran and sunnah cannot be Islam.

lets take Rumi as an example. He wrote about sodomy, gay love in a typical homo erotic Persian literary style. (Persian poetry is in essence homo erotic).

If one of the greatest Sufis was a bender, what does that say about Sufism?

I would rather practice Islam as it is revealed in Quran and sunnah then to read and learn "mysticism & spirituality" from sodomites like Rumi.

[randolph85]

Shut up hypocrite you are ven worse than him. Go suck some arab and american dicks. Thats what your kind have always done and really like tot do. Slave.

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the Afghan atheist.

Marvel at its lack of intellect, its crude use of the English language and natural persuasion towards homosexuality.

Its short attention span and penchant for violence are legendary online.

Its hypocrisy knows no bounds and its spitefulness towards Islam is all but dependent on their disappointed father paying his monthly internet bill.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

"Your understanding" is incorrect. Mysticism & Spirituality are two abstract concepts. Sufis always use abstract terms to define their methodology which is in essence onscurantism. It's blind trust in a murshid who never reveals what he is actually saying. This is why there are so many Sufi tariqah's and most of them are involved polytheism and other sorts un-Islamic activities.

The truth is, true spiritual education is as Kushal said, in the routine acts of worship like the 5 prayers. We only know what is revealed in the Quran and the sunnah. Anything which is not found in Quran and sunnah cannot be Islam.

lets take Rumi as an example. He wrote about sodomy, gay love in a typical homo erotic Persian literary style. (Persian poetry is in essence homo erotic).

If one of the greatest Sufis was a bender, what does that say about Sufism?

I would rather practice Islam as it is revealed in Quran and sunnah then to read and learn "mysticism & spirituality" from sodomites like Rumi.

Ithe Sodomy thing is most likely Wahhabi types projecting their guilt onto Rumi. I do agree with you about blindly following something but this is Wahhabism too

Khushal's comment was about whether prayer is in and of itself spiritual. The answer is, yes ...when it can be when channeled properly, with depth and deep reflection, not simply performing a routine action. I've never seen that type of spiritual enthusiasm with Wahhabis , from my observations it's always been about following mechanics, trivial nitpicking and bickering about trivial matters such as rolled up pant legs and beard length.

Like I suggested prior , what distinguishes the Sufi from Wahhabi isn't that both don't stress Shariah ...it's that they do so in a totally different manner and mentality. For Sufis, shariah Is the foundation but ma'arifah is the end, a skeleton withflesh. For the Wahhabi ShariaH is the end, skeleton without flesh the Sufi tries to align the inner essence with outward form hhabi is maunly concerned with the outward.

I don't believe Sufis are infallible or should be blindly followed. They are mortals after all and thus fallible. But the model that they use is definitely to admire and make use of. ...it represents the nature of the Prophet's personality more.

[DaZahroJaam.]

by God..
"In freedom, most men find sin." For years, I had no clue what that meant. Maybe if you lost your head from your prayer mat and looked around you or your attentio n was somehow diverted from worshipping God so mechanically, your next impulse would drive you straight to sodomy or whatever else of evil lays out there..
That is your main concern.. You never have anything else to talk about or fear.. Astaghfirullah..

[Khostai]

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the Afghan atheist.

Marvel at its lack of intellect, its crude use of the English language and natural persuasion towards homosexuality.

Its short attention span and penchant for violence are legendary online.

Its hypocrisy knows no bounds and its spitefulness towards Islam is all but dependent on their disappointed father paying his monthly internet bill.

LOL You are the bigest hypocrie here, you say nothing when one of your dogs barcks here like they have rabies, but you get all emotional and buthurt when I say womthing. Go **** yourself slave.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Khostai = Nemat Sedat

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Ithe Sodomy thing is most likely Wahhabi types projecting their guilt onto Rumi. I do agree with you about blindly following something but this is Wahhabism too

Khushal's comment is that isn't prayer in and of itself spiritusl. The answer is, yes ...when it can be when channeled properly. I've never seen that type of spiritual enthusiasm with Wahhabi , from my observations it's always been trivial nitpicking and bickering about trivial matters such as rolled up pant legs and beard length.

Like I suggested prior , what distinguishes the Sufi from Wahhabi isn't that both don't stress Shariah ...it's that they do so in a totally different manner and mentality. For Sufis, shariah Is the foundation but ma'arifah is the end, a skeleton withflesh. For the Wahhabi ShariaH is the end, skeleton without flesh the Sufi tries to align the inner essence with outward form hhabi is maunly concerned with the outward.

I don't believe Sufis are infallible or should be blindly followed. They are mortals after all and thus fallible. But the model that they use is definitely to admire and make use of. ...it represents the nature of the Prophet's personality more.

All the above are your personal views and opinions. You defend Sufism and you use derogatory terms like Wahhabi because you are unable to define what you mean by mysticism and spirituality. Neither are you able to define what Wahhabi is. This exactly what badlun is doing. Throwing around with meaningless terms without clearly defining them just to facilitate the narrative.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I can post examples of Rumi's explicitly gay and homo erotic poems to depict how vile and disgusting the poster child for Sufism actually was.

You are making fun of Khostai and Nemat Sadat while defending Rumi who was probably worse.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

All the above are your personal views and opinions. You defend Sufism and you use derogatory terms like Wahhabi because you are unable to define what you mean by mysticism and spirituality. Neither are you able to define what Wahhabi is. This exactly what badlun is doing. Throwing around with meaningless terms without clearly defining them just to facilitate the narrative.

Just as yours was personal opinion and more over slander based on zero evidence. you keep trying to play aloof and act as if no one has sufficiently responded to your questions. Ironically ......exactly what Badlun does.

We've already been through Wahhabi in past threads, and we've been through the implications of Mysticism and Spirituality, that should give a good idea of what it means. You're just trying to rescue Wahhabism, because you know when we say wahhabi it applies to those who think like you.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I can post examples of Rumi's explicitly gay and homo erotic poems to depict how vile and disgusting the poster child for Sufism actually was.

You are making fun of Khostai and Nemat Sadat while defending Rumi who was probably worse.

By all means .......please post those "explicitly" gay verses/poems and then I can show that you're projecting that meaning onto them from your own personal yearnings rather than the poems having those meanings intrinsically.

the difference is Khostai is talking about sucking this and that, Nemat Sadat, self explanatory ........I doubt you can find anything like that in Rumi. if you can ......then by all means meet the demands of your claims.

[DaZahroJaam.]

IF YOU DONT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO TALK ABOUT, GET OUT OF MY THREAD AND TAKE ALONG YOUR **** LIKE EXISTENCES WITH YOU.

Not once do either of you have anything to say about ANYTHING without circling around to the topic of homosexuality. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

One would think you would show some decency during ramazan.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

No need for histrionics and fabricating some warped storyline so you can act self righteous DZJ. My whole discussion has been absent of "homosexuality" . I have no responsibility if Shamlawar keeps insisting on his juvenile Wahhabist "in the closet" antics. If he can't produce anything explicitly confirming his slander, then it will just backfire on him and just reflect that he's conflicted with his own inner fantasies and sexual frustration.

You need to stop trying to act like you're somehow "elevated above" everything and actually practice what you preach, because your grievances here are rather frivolous and trife, So quit posturing and grow up. You aren't fooling anyone ...no one at all.

[DaZahroJaam.]

Shut up.