tilla_jogian versus Toramana

[Bengal_Tiger]

Thanks Bengal_Tiger for the honest opinion. And I invite you to the abode of those beautiful mountains.

Thanks Toramana and likewise you are invited to Bengal.

Though obviously this thread is started in jest, on a more serious note Bacha Khan (rahmatullahi 'alaih) and his ideals appealed to people who are ethnically non-Pashtun including the likes of the Bilour brothers, Ahsan Wyne and others.

Modern Pashtun nationalism is progressive and tolerant and heavily connected to the idea of peace and social justice (Bacha Khan) thus inclusive of non-Pashtuns, or those who the tribal Pashtuns view as not being real Pashtuns e.g. Parachas, so-called "Syeds" (many who are probably fake, and lack basic manners and civility) and so forth.

Modern Pashtun nationalism - ironically for such a martial nation as Pashtuns - does not encourage a right-wing style of nationalism e.g. militarism, territorial self-aggrandisement but is more humanistic.

[tor_khan]

kpk sikhs do not have a drop of pukhtun blood, they were settled by ranjit singh; adopting language don't change reality

I already said it didn't matter. I have met Sikhs and Hindus who display exemplary Pashtunwali. I would have less hesitation in sharing my bread with them over Muslims who don't come close.

Also, people didn't campaign to change the colonial era provincial name from NWFP to (Khyber) Pakhtunkhwa only for 21st Century lazy-assed people to turn up on the internet and call it KPK.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

ooooh the chaproosi .....such a typical sign of Indic character.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I already said it didn't matter. I have met Sikhs and Hindus who display exemplary Pashtunwali. I would have less hesitation in sharing my bread with them over Muslims who don't come close.

Also, people didn't campaign to change the colonial era provincial name from NWFP to (Khyber) Pakhtunkhwa only for 21st Century lazy-assed people to turn up on the internet and call it KPK.

Every Pashto speaking Sikh I've met are the most benamous people I have ever met. Not exactly "exemplary" Pashtunwali.

[tripledouble]

I already said it didn't matter. I have met Sikhs and Hindus who display exemplary Pashtunwali. I would have less hesitation in sharing my bread with them over Muslims who don't come close.

most will deny they have anything to do with pashtunwali, it's just etiquettes & pashtunwali has lots of elements like male only inheritance & patriarchy that non muslims don't like

Also, people didn't campaign to change the colonial era provincial name from NWFP to (Khyber) Pakhtunkhwa only for 21st Century lazy-assed people to turn up on the internet and call it KPK.

1.abbrivations are fine, every american state uses abbreviations.
2. Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is too long to spell, shorter is simpler
3.non pukhtun minorities were against renaming of province because of it's ethnic exclusive name & lack of historical support; us Hindkowans,Gujjars,Kohistanis,Chitralis,Kalash & other did not want name change, we wanted a more inclusive name representing all ethnic groups, not one like "pashtunkhwa" which is just ethno fascism imo

so i won't support ethnic supremacy over other natives

[tor_khan]

Every Pashto speaking Sikh I've met are the most benamous people I have ever met. Not exactly "exemplary" Pashtunwali.

"I have met" I said. Maybe you have met the less-desirable types. Maybe luck has something to do with this. If Pashtuns generally look down on the Indic types, then some of that pride has come back to hurt us.

But yes, because of our cultural influences on them, I make a slight distinction between Sikhs from the Pashtun belt versuses the Bhangra ones from the Punjab. They make that distinction themselves as a matter of fact.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Who cares in a narrow (biploar) definition of who is/isn't Pashtun? This isn't the most meaningful poll.

If being Pashtun was solely about genetics then arguably we are all African. Argument over. Khallas.

That said, Pashto is more than just a language. It's a set of values, passed down through the tradition of our forebearers not entirely separable from our position as Muslims. Some of this leads to our many shortcomings and some that makes it easy for others to exploit our sentiments. Pashto is also not just about being anti-Pakistan.

You fall into some of those bands Toramana because you turn tradition and faith on and off mixed with 'nationalist' sentiment when it suits. Worse you have laid yourself totally open to the exploitation of people who come in all sorts of guises claiming to be well-wishers of the Pashtuns, when their actions and intentions speak otherwise.

As for the topic. For me a Sikh from Parichinar who speaks Pashto without mixing every second word and calls himself Pashtun is more Pashtun than many of those who claim pedigree.

Superb

[tilla_jogian]

Who cares in a narrow (biploar) definition of who is/isn't Pashtun? This isn't the most meaningful poll.

If being Pashtun was solely about genetics then arguably we are all African. Argument over. Khallas.

That said, Pashto is more than just a language. It's a set of values, passed down through the tradition of our forebearers not entirely separable from our position as Muslims. Some of this leads to our many shortcomings and some that makes it easy for others to exploit our sentiments. Pashto is also not just about being anti-Pakistan.

You fall into some of those bands Toramana because you turn tradition and faith on and off mixed with 'nationalist' sentiment when it suits. Worse you have laid yourself totally open to the exploitation of people who come in all sorts of guises claiming to be well-wishers of the Pashtuns, when their actions and intentions speak otherwise.

As for the topic. For me a Sikh from Parichinar who speaks Pashto without mixing every second word and calls himself Pashtun is more Pashtun than many of those who claim pedigree.

Thats why ethnic nationalism fail, most of the times the discussion is on who is who. Lets be honest, kpk sikhs are khatris/aroras who were trading caste from punjab also known as banyas (which is insult because they used to trick humble zamindar folk according to stereotypes). Many khatri muslims started to adopt sheikh title in punjab. Many of the richest Pakistani families actually belong to muslim khatri caste.

Anyway seem like afghanis in gujrat are not true pathans because they don't follow anyone of the rules listed here. I think even kammi here are better followers of so called pashtunwali ethic code. Which is just unwritten tribal society ethic code in most parts of the world and is not necessarily followed by every member of said ethnic group. Not even as a group.

For exemple most people on this site fail 1st code of pashtunwali

1. Melmastia (hospitality) - Showing hospitality and profound respect to all visitors, regardless of race, religion, national affiliation or economic status and doing so without any hope of remuneration or favour. Pashtuns will go to great lengths to show their hospitality.[4][18][19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

Most people here bragging about pashtunwali are racist to the core. Sikhs in kpk are banyas, don't confuse them with every sikh. I can list many historical events in which every pashtun failed first code, for exemple soon after partition when many hindustani muhajirs were returned back from KPK.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

"I have met" I said. Maybe you have met the less-desirable types. Maybe luck has something to do with this. If Pashtuns generally look down on the Indic types, then some of that pride has come back to hurt us.

But yes, because of our cultural influences on them, I make a slight distinction between Sikhs from the Pashtun belt versuses the Bhangra ones from the Punjab. They make that distinction themselves as a matter of fact.

I think my experiences have to do with the fact that they identify more with India and chant slogans like "Jai Bharat". Which of course is their right to do. I don't necessarily fault them for that, but from my experiences around their Bhangra dancing kin they are like them.

Serious come to the East Coast especially New York, you'll see them and they're pretty loose and they embrace the culture of their heritage than anything. I'm not saying Pashtuns are angels but they put most Westernized Pashtuns to shame.

[tilla_jogian]

Thanks Toramana and likewise you are invited to Bengal.

Though obviously this thread is started in jest, on a more serious note Bacha Khan (rahmatullahi 'alaih) and his ideals appealed to people who are ethnically non-Pashtun including the likes of the Bilour brothers, Ahsan Wyne and others.

Modern Pashtun nationalism is progressive and tolerant and heavily connected to the idea of peace and social justice (Bacha Khan) thus inclusive of non-Pashtuns, or those who the tribal Pashtuns view as not being real Pashtuns e.g. Parachas, so-called "Syeds" (many who are probably fake, and lack basic manners and civility) and so forth.

Modern Pashtun nationalism - ironically for such a martial nation as Pashtuns - does not encourage a right-wing style of nationalism e.g. militarism, territorial self-aggrandisement but is more humanistic.

Dude lay off heroine, pashtun is not linguistic based nationalism. But its ethnic/caste based and this is the reason most debates are on who is real pathan.

Sindhi, hindko and seraiki are linguistic based nationalist movements in Pakistan.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

For exemple most people on this site fail 1st code of pashtunwali

1. Melmastia (hospitality) - Showing hospitality and profound respect to all visitors, regardless of race, religion, national affiliation or economic status and doing so without any hope of remuneration or favour. Pashtuns will go to great lengths to show their hospitality.[4][18][19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtunwali

Most people here bragging about pashtunwali are racist to the core. Sikhs in kpk are banyas, don't confuse them with every sikh. I can list many historical events in which every pashtun failed first code, for exemple soon after partition when many hindustani muhajirs were returned back from KPK.

i actually think we need to amend certain aspects of Pashtunwali myself

especially Malmastia ......it should be more like Malmastia*

* Hospitable except when you're clearly an obnoxious Indic parasite, either to disrespect us (you) or over the top phony attempts at flattery (Bangla creeper)

[tilla_jogian]

i actually think we need to amend certain aspects of Pashtunwali myself

especially Malmastia ......it should be more like Malmastia*

* Hospitable except when you're clearly an obnoxious Indic parasite, either to disrespect us (you) or over the top phony attempts at flattery (Bangla creeper)

Its not like afghanis are following any off so called codes anyway, why amend it? These codes can fool some gora saab but reality set in when you see afghanis in real life.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Its not like afghanis are following any off so called codes anyway, why amend it? These codes can fool some gora saab but reality set in when you see afghanis in real life.

Well my Heera Mandi Born friend; Afghans are not all angels this is true, I have met Afghans from all walks of life, some are noble, with lofty principles some are disgraceful, some I'd even rebuke more so than a decent, hard working and moral Punjabay.


But the difference here is a cultural one; while there are ****my Afghans for sure, Afghan Pashtuns as a culture at least ASPIRE to Higher Principles, As a culture we hold higher principles as worth striving for, even if some of us have warped ideas of what that should be or fail to meet with it.

The Punjabay culture on the other hand REVELS in the Low, It says to itself "Most of us can't even live up to higher principles so why bother?". Now while some Honorable Punjabayan exist, they exist IN SPITE of their culture. Why do you think I call you Heera Mandizai, because that doesn't exist IN SPITE of your culture, it exists because of your culture. Your culture extols it and gives it a place in the social spectrum. The Law among Punjabis SAFE guards such things.

Does lewdness and perversion among Pashtuns? Sure, are there prostitutes in/from Afghanistan? Sure BUt the difference is, they exist IN SPITE of our culture, There is no such thing as a "Heera Mandi" among Pashtuns, anything that happens, happens in EXTREME secrecy with SHAME and FEAR. If these people get exposed THEY are not safe, but always live worried of their safety.

That's the difference between a Ghairati culture, like Pashtuns and a Beghairati culture, Punjabi.

[tilla_jogian]

Well my Heera Mandi Born friend; Afghans are not all angels this is true, I have met Afghans from all walks of life, some are noble, with lofty principles some are disgraceful, some I'd even rebuke more so than a decent, hard working and moral Punjabay.


But the difference here is a cultural one; while there are ****my Afghans for sure, Afghan Pashtuns as a culture at least ASPIRE to Higher Principles, As a culture we hold higher principles as worth striving for, even if some of us have warped ideas of what that should be or fail to meet with it.

The Punjabay culture on the other hand REVELS in the Low, It says to itself "Most of us can't even live up to higher principles so why bother?". Now while some Honorable Punjabayan exist, they exist IN SPITE of their culture. Why do you think I call you Heera Mandizai, because that doesn't exist IN SPITE of your culture, it exists because of your culture. Your culture extols it and gives it a place in the social spectrum. The Law among Punjabis SAFE guards such things.

Does lewdness and perversion among Pashtuns? Sure, are there prostitutes in/from Afghanistan? Sure BUt the difference is, they exist IN SPITE of our culture, There is no such thing as a "Heera Mandi" among Pashtuns, anything that happens, happens in EXTREME secrecy with SHAME and FEAR. If these people get exposed THEY are not safe, but always live worried of their safety.

That's the difference between a Ghairati culture, like Pashtuns and a Beghairati culture, Punjabi.

Afghanis are difination of beghairats, soon kanjar word will be replaced by afghani because both people have same set of values. The most they aspire to be is have as many babies so they can sell them for profit when they grow older. And continue to live like gypsys. Hilarious thing is they cry when someone tell them to move back to Afghanistan. Which tells me afghanis in Afghanistan most be worst off.


Soon PF will have exclusive interview of real afghani pathans. Honestly don't get me wrong, no matter how retarded afghanis on this forum behave I will not hate these refugees. They deserve better and punjabi hospitality is known world wide (not just bs pashtun wali code written on wikipedia to fool others lol) . If they are not deported then soon they will become integrated pathans because we don't hate anybody, not muhajirs (urdu speakers or afghanis) and neither any other ethnic group. But if you hate Pakistanis then better hate us while being in Afghanistan or Canada.

For time being see here for some update from Azad Kashmir.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZf0fOMO5wg

[Brown Skinned Savage]

What are you going to do, Take them to the Heera Mandi for indoctrination?