Afghanistan part of South Asia?

[Toramana]

(1) Someone here claimed that Pashto is the only language with the retroflex sound, which is totally untrue. There are other Iranic languages that have retroflex sounds. Furthermore, the retroflex influence might not have necessarily come from one type of interaction (i. e., the Dravidian link). It might have a more ancient connection.

(2) If you look at topography, the whole of north-west belt from Quetta to Gilgit Baltistan has a culture of its own quite distinct from that of those that inhabit the Indo-Gangetic plain. Consider the following peculiarities.

(a) Food : naan west of Indus chappathi east of Indus; meat consumed in greeter quantities west of Indus than east of Indus. Food is more spicy east of Indus than west of Indus. I on few occasions visited Lahore and found the food too spicy to eat.

(b) Dress: dhoti is the common dress in Punjab and Sindh whereas in KP it is exclusively shalwar qamees. In fact, it would be too embarrassing for a Pashtun to be dressed in dhoti. This is also true of female dress.

(c) Houses construction style: If you look at Pashtun homes they are kind of fortress style with higher fortification and emphasis on privacy whether in cities or villages. This is contrary to what you observe in rural Sindh and Punjab where houses most of the times don't have the boundary wall.

(d) Values and tradition: Do our values and traditions match and have any commonality. I don't think there is any good degree of similarity. Pashtunwali is an entirely different moral code from the values and traditions in Punjab and Sindh. It puts greater emphasis on personal valour and attributes like steadfastness etc. unlike the malleability emphasized in the values of Punjab and Sindh.

Overall Pashtun values are more conservative.

One I visited a place in Kashmir called Bhimber. I travelled through Khariaan and other areas and believe me I found the society quite different from what we have in KP. The contrast gets sharper as one visits Sindhi villages. Anyone who have visited KP villages and Punjab Sindh villages can immediately see the difference.

By the way I also had the chance to see life in the villages close to Rawalpindi. It was quite quite different from the life in KP villages. Moreover, I also have visited Afghanistan, e,g, Jalalabad, Kabul, and the surrounding villages. The culture is quite similar. Very little will you feel strange in an Afghan village because you hear the same language and find the same tradition.

[Toramana]

Pakistan is not a nation. It is an invented nation. West needed a country that it could use to preserve its influence in the ME and South-Central Asia after the world war ii and could use against communism and it recruited people like Jannah, Choudri Sir Zafarullah Khan, Agha Khan, etc.(who even were not the mainstream Muslims) to realize the goal. Pakistan never existed in history as a distinct entity.

The Punjabi Army was having its oath or loyalty to the Britsih just one day before the so-called independence. Punjabis themselves never had any significant role in the freedom struggle.

Right now Pakistan is more a constitutional nation. The sole basis of its nationhood is its constitution.

It has a very weak natural foundations. It is a matter of time when does the West its main patron has its purpose done with it. Even if one Western channel such as BBC started its demonizing propaganda against the Punjabi generals as they did against Saddam or now many other leaders and highlighting the plight of Baluchis and other disgruntled communities that would be the end of Pakistan.

[Toramana]

Having said that I will say that there are shades within the same cultural group, e.g., Western Pashtuns that live in Nimruz, Farah, Herat are more Persianized. I think many speak Persian yet very strongly feel to be Pashtuns. I think when it comes to ethnic identity expression and political affiliation they are very strong Pashtuns if not many times leaders of Pashtuns.

Then there are people of Mianwali who speak Siraiki but still retain the typical Pashtun tribal stratification and have many Pashtun values although politically they don't align themselves with Pashtuns. May be culturally also they are more inclined towards associating themselves with the wider Siraiki people.

Then there are Dir and Swat and Ningarhar Kohistan. I believe these people strongly align themselves with Pashtuns although they are basically a Dardic group. But then Dardics have formed a substratum of Pashtun ethnicity as well. When Pashtuns descended from Pamirs and Hindukush as Saka people, they assimilated the proto-Indo-Aryans that lived here.

Now if one looks at areas like Mansehra and other areas, people seemed to be mixture of three groups; Kashmiris, Potoharis, and Pashtuns. I believe many of the traditions are similar with Pashtuns likewise many with Kashmiris and Potoharis depending on the proximity to these groups (e.g., more Kashmiri influence as you go towards Muzafarabad more Pashtun if you go twards Swat or Sawabi and more Potohari if you go towards Potohar example in Haripur). Sometime back I visited Mansehra and I saw ladies clad in Chadur as we do in other KP villages.

[Kushan Prince]

Honestly I have never seen any actual pashtun supremacist like this Karachi guy. This UP pathan is on another level. In OP he says Afghanistan is part of SA and how he would love to visit Sri Lanka (lie since he hates sight of dark skin which he probably himself have from his hindu UP ancestors he hates so much).

But he quickly turn around and say forget about Afghanistan, not even Kashmir should be part of south asia

He's not even Pashtun, he's a Mojihar.

[Kushan Prince]

@tripledouble Balochs have nothing to do with Mehrgarh civilization, they came to present day Baluchistan from Iran and conquered areas around Suleiman mountains and south Punjab just few centuries ago.


Balochs came into their present locations in Mekran and on the Indian border from the parts of the Iranian plateau further to the west and north , bringing with them a language of the old Persian stock , with many features the Zend or old Bactrian rather than the western Persian.

Mr.Longworth Dames assigns the first mention of the Baloch in history to the Arabic chronicles of 10th century AD but Firdausi refers to a still earlier period, and in his Shahnama , the Baloch are described as forming part of the armies of Rai Kaus and Kai Khusrao. The poem says that the army of Ashkash was from the wanderers of Koch and Baloch , intent on war, with exalted cockscomb crests, whose back none in the world ever saw. Under Naushirwan , the Chosroes who fight against Justinian, the Baloch are again mentioned as mountaineers who raided his kingdom and had to be exterminated , though later on we find them serving in Naushirwan's own army. In this passages their association with the men of Gil and Dailam (The people of Gilan and Azerbaijan) would appear to locate the Baloch in a province north of Karman towards the Caspian sea.
https://books.google.com.pk/books?id...%20but&f=false

Balochi's orignally came from Syria, not Iran.