Afghanistan part of South Asia?

[tripledouble]

Hard to feel that way when one province dominates the country, bombs your villages, and imprisons and tortures your leaders

the biggest populated province will always have more power because of it's numbers, and then add the fact Punjab is breadbasket of subcontinent, recruiting ground of army since times of brits, and borders all 4 provinces of Pak(if incl AJK).

in America certain states have more electoral votes than others, certain have more money, certain demographics have more influence, it's universal. Punjab is to Pak what Castile is to Spain, what Normandy is to France, what England is to Britain what Tuscany is to Italy or what Fars is to Iran

Yeah pakistan has committed war crimes in state of war, and yes has mistreated political leaders of your movement, but this holds true for every single country, it's not unique to pak for treating secceionists like that.

Pashtunwali is our culture. I don't know what other culture you're talking about. And of course every city has its own distinct environment and "mood." Although Peshawar may feel different from Kabul, Charsadda from Helmand, and Quetta from Jalalabad, they still have more in common with each other than with other places in Pakistan.

ok if u say so, but i don't agree with peshawar being more similar to afg, it's more unique imo, it's more mixed and has diverse history.

especially when one group clearly dominates the state and is simply unwilling to compromise and share power.

but how so?how do punjabis not want to share power?We have had PMs and Presidents of every ethnicity, perhaps army is dominated by Punjabis followed by healthy representation of pukhtuns but Punjabis are 45% of population, and nearly 60% of pop. resides in Punjab, it's going to have more influenec, i feel like pashtunists have biases against punjabis stemming from times of Sikh v. Abdali , there's also power struggles in AFghanistan, where minorities feel disenfranchised by pashtuns, they have even had ethnic civil wars.

Why did the Bengalis separate? Just for fun? Or because they were tired of being marginalized and repressed?

Bengalis separated because of some discrimination but mainly because of of THE HUGE distance, it was thousands of kms away, culturally distinct from the Abaseen civilization, and on top of that Soviets and India sowed discord
to severe an important western ally in the cold war. Bengalis weren't hateful towards pakistan, never apart from minority. They did feel oppressed and wronged but they largely were pro-pakistan and, even today, they are anti-india

And using Europe as an example only strengthens my argument. Europeans were butchering each other when they didn't have their own countries. It all stopped when people realized that everyone had to have their own space.

no, they butchered each other to create that space, before they had great unity, but even then, what works for europe doesn't for our region, i can give you a lecture and articluate my points better but i'm pooped out, so i'll save it for another day, but there's a historical and cultural reason why our regions didn't go the path of europeans

But all this is beside the point. Pakistan might not be artificial in your view,

i back my views with history and geography

but that doesn't change the fact that it's a brutal state that's known for military coups

military coup last happen in 20th century, we haven't had since and coups happen in Brazil, in Turkey, in Thailand, in Egypt, in Bangladesh, in Portugal, i don't see your point.

political corruption

so this is not universal?only pakistan has corruption?even your model bangladesh ranks higher on these lists every year, corruption will always exists, it's a human flaw

suppression of its own people

yes, but what state hasn't, and indeed it is bad, but are there gurantees that a new state won't suppress it's people?

and even genocide.

technically genocide hasn't happened yet, nor by any historical record, but if accept your claims, this is once again not unique to pakistan, genocides have happened in China,India,Afghanistan,Arab worlds etc against their own people

Being blindly loyal to such a state is indeed groupthink.

being loyal to any state, any club, any religion, any race, ethnicity, team etc could be considered groupthink, i choose this as my group just as you may choose pashtunicists as your groups.

[Bengal_Tiger]

[MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] and others,

I'm going to place this tripledouble troll on ignore as it's clear to me that despite his ostensibly pleasant and polite exterior he is nothing more than an apologist for the Pakistani military and its genocide and ethnic cleansing.

in America certain states have more electoral votes than others, certain have more money, certain demographics have more influence, it's universal. Punjab is to Pak what Castile is to Spain, what Normandy is to France, what England is to Britain what Tuscany is to Italy or what Fars is to Iran

No need for this guy to try and act clever and show us all how smart he is.

No need to dazzle us with his "knowledge".

He could have merely left it at Castile or Fars but he showed his ignorance by mentioning Tuscany and Normandy.

a: Normandy is a peripheral area of France that very few French care about, the actual area of France with a lot of power now and in the past few hundred years is the Ile de Paris, i.e. the statelet of Paris.


b: Tuscany is a not-so important region of Italy, whose main importance in Italian nation-building is that standard Italian is based on the dialect of Tuscany.

In Italy there is no region with dominance, but the key industrial province is Lombardy (where Milan is situated), but historically the province that united Italy is Piedmont.

In fact Italy can be regarded as having been an expanded Piedmont, in the way that Germany was an expanded Prussia.


To any of the almost 60 million Italians, or 80 million Germans this would be an incredibly ignorant statement to hear.


However this is relatively unimportant compared to the next few points, and in of itself it is totally irrelevant except to show that this guy cannot be trusted despite seeming to know "facts" and possess "knowledge"

Bengalis separated because of some discrimination but mainly because of of THE HUGE distance, it was thousands of kms away, culturally distinct from the Abaseen civilization, and on top of that Soviets and India sowed discord
to severe an important western ally in the cold war. Bengalis weren't hateful towards pakistan, never apart from minority. They did feel oppressed and wronged but they largely were pro-pakistan and, even today, they are anti-india

Notice how he euphemistically as part of his agenda of defending the Pakistani army on this forum says "some" discrimination, and then lies and attributes separation to distance.

Nonsense!

Bengalis separated because genocide was being conducted against them by the same army that was supposed to defend and not slaughter and rape Pakistani Muslim citizens (which is what Bengalis were in 1971).

Operation "searchlight" is what led Bengalis to independence.

A campaign of genocide that even Europeans who knew about it said it was worse than what even the Nazis did in WW2.



Prior to that it was the systematic decades of discrimination, as well as micro-level (i.e. on a personal level) humiliation lorded upon them by West Pakistani civil servants.

More importantly was how West Pakistan used east Pakistan for money, sucked cash out of it to fund the western wing and gave very little of the money (east Pakistan's money) back.

Anyway Bangladesh is independent now.

Bangladeshis are to an extent anti-Indian but this is not the same as the Pakistani hatred for India.

The difference between Bangladeshi dislike for India and Pakistani hatred is like the difference between an annoyed liberal voter disliking Obama and a member of the KKK hating Obama.


a: Liberal voter dislikes Obama not because of what he is, but what he does.

He may not like his policies but if Obama were to change and produce results he would accept that and be ok with him.


b: KKK racist hates Obama because of what he is, not what he does.

He is black.

Period.

Obama could be the greatest man on earth but because of the "crime" of being black, they will hate him, with a deep, disgusting animalistic almost murderous hatred.



Similarly most Bangladeshis dislike India merely because of some of the policies of the New Delhi government which if altered can mean we have positive views.

However Pakistani hatred of India is very central and fundamental to the whole concept of Pakistan and to the identity of Pakistan. "Evil Hindu" India is a sworn and eternal enemy that must one day be vanquished in the inevitable and much longed-for clash-of-clashes that will finally see a Pakistani victory over these "evil" and "inferior" Hindus.

It is akin to the Arab hatred for Jewish Israel.


It is only on a Pakistani military site will you see members of the small pro-Pakistan minority in Bangladesh spouting incessant hatred against India and other lies e.g. Bangladesh being a puppet of India (complete nonsense).

military coup last happen in 20th century, we haven't had since and coups happen in Brazil, in Turkey, in Thailand, in Egypt, in Bangladesh, in Portugal, i don't see your point.

Nonsense!

Military dictator Parvez Musharraf took over power in 1999 and then gave it up in 2008.

So Pakistan has not had a military leader for 7 years only.

Less than a decade.

Spare us pedantic nonsense about him being a civilian and wearing a suit in his later years of rule or his false elections.

The man was a military dictator.



Military dictator, Musharraf.


Apologist for Pakistani genocide and ethnic cleansing


- To sum up this man is an apologist for Pakistani genocide and also the illegal ethnic cleansing of Afghan refugees from Pakistan.

His main strategy apart from being very pedantic and often either intentionally lying or just being ignorant/mistaken is to say the following.

"....BUT OTHERS DID IT TOO!"

Pakistan is not just any other country

- It has slaughtered and raped far more Muslims than Israel.

- Used its army to carry out a systematic genocide against an unarmed civilian population including mass rape of women in 1971, countries like India, Afghanistan, Brazil, Nigeria, Mexico, Malaysia etc have never done this.

It is not just another country.

- Has made 3 million of its own citizens homeless in the past few years.


- Is a militaristic state glorifying its army, militarism and hatred of India.

It is a fascist militaristic state.


- Sponsors terrorist groups e.g. Lashkar Jhangvi, Jamat-ud-dawah.

Terrorist groups that attack the parliament of other states i.e. India.



99% of countries in the world do not behave like Pakistan.

It is a state which has committed genocide and the most atrocious crimes.


[MENTION=3580]asad71[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1234]Smarty[/MENTION]
[MENTION=17579]Loy Afghanistan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION]
[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION]

[tilla_jogian]

I don't know why you guys blame punjabis, we are also victims. Remember punjabis mean people living in central punjab gujranwala, lahore, faisalabad and sahiwal divisions of punjab or other wise majha region. And not just living but those who can speak like us, how do we speak? We speak different kind of punjabi from other pakistanis and sikhs. Watch moula jat movie to know how we speak, or watch Imran Khan speaking punjabi in youtube.


Punjabis probably make 25% of Pak population and only now after decades of humiliation, we can say that punjabis are on important posts like PM, COAS, and ISI chief at the same time.

We are minorty in Pakistan and I am thinking to start some punjabi nationalist movement.

[Karachi]

I don't know why you guys blame punjabis, we are also victims. Remember punjabis mean people living in central punjab gujranwala, lahore, faisalabad and sahiwal divisions of punjab or other wise majha region. And not just living but those who can speak like us, how do we speak? We speak different kind of punjabi from other pakistanis and sikhs. Watch moula jat movie to know how we speak, or watch Imran Khan speaking punjabi in youtube.


Punjabis probably make 25% of Pak population and only now after decades of humiliation, we can say that punjabis are on important posts like PM, COAS, and ISI chief at the same time.

We are minorty in Pakistan and I am thinking to start some punjabi nationalist movement.

punjabis are minority? only 25% of the population? which world are you living in? Punjabis are the biggest population of Pakistan, making almost 50% of the country

[tilla_jogian]

punjabis are minority? only 25% of the population? which world are you living in? Punjabis are the biggest population of Pakistan, making almost 50% of the country

Not everyone living in current punjab province is punjabi. Only those divisions I mentioned are punjabi and even in those divisions not everyone is punjabi especially in cities like Lahore where lots of muhajirs live. Anyone who speak differently to us is not considered punjabi by us living in real punjab.

[Karachi]

As for the thread, I personally think South Asia should only include the Indian plate.

This is the map of pakistan and we can clearly see where south asia ends



^ in a way, even places like Kashmir should not be south asia, though Kashmir could be since it has south asian/hindu history and ancestry, it depends

yes genetically some pashtuns and baloch may have more indic in them, however their culture is not south asian. South asian culture really starts once you come down the mountains and hit punjab. A city like Peshawar is probably the middle ground between south asian and central asian cultures

Eastern Pakistan is totally indic, with historical influences from Afghan and central asian cultures. A guy living in Lahore has much more in common with a guy from Dhaka, Bangladesh then he does with a guy from Kabul, culturally especially.

[Karachi]

Not everyone living in current punjab province is punjabi. Only those divisions I mentioned are punjabi and even in those divisions not everyone is punjabi especially in cities like Lahore where lots of muhajirs live. Anyone who speak differently to us is not considered punjabi by us living in real punjab.

oh please, 25% are only punjabi lol, then rest must be aliens

[tilla_jogian]

Its especially shamefull when I hear punjabi taliban, why? Because they are fookin seraiki taliban and not punjabi taliban. We have nothing to do with them.

[tilla_jogian]

As for the thread, I personally think South Asia should only include the Indian plate.

This is the map of pakistan and we can clearly see where south asia ends



^ in a way, even places like Kashmir should not be south asia, though Kashmir could be since it has south asian/hindu history and ancestry, it depends

yes genetically some pashtuns and baloch may have more indic in them, however their culture is not south asian. South asian culture really starts once you come down the mountains and hit punjab. A city like Peshawar is probably the middle ground between south asian and central asian cultures

Eastern Pakistan is totally indic, with historical influences from Afghan and central asian cultures. A guy living in Lahore has much more in common with a guy from Dhaka, Bangladesh then he does with a guy from Kabul, culturally especially.

UP pathan backstabbing muhajir from Canada like you will decide what should be part of Pakistan? I wish your ancestors were left behind to die like dogs, we have allowed too many of you.

Yes we are like Bangladeshis and proud of it, but you should at least come out and stop creating these threads. We know how much you hate dark skin despite being UP pathan. Probably to do with the fact that you will never be accepted as true pakhtun lol especially in forum like this.

Now go around in more forums to troll dark looking Pakistanis. But at least you should come out as the way you are. No need to troll Pakis behind muhajir/karachi identity.

[tilla_jogian]

oh please, 25% are only punjabi lol, then rest must be aliens

There are many languages in punjab.

[tilla_jogian]

Honestly I have never seen any actual pashtun supremacist like this Karachi guy. This UP pathan is on another level. In OP he says Afghanistan is part of SA and how he would love to visit Sri Lanka (lie since he hates sight of dark skin which he probably himself have from his hindu UP ancestors he hates so much).

But he quickly turn around and say forget about Afghanistan, not even Kashmir should be part of south asia

[Karachi]

UP pathan backstabbing muhajir from Canada like you will decide what should be part of Pakistan? I wish your ancestors were left behind to die like dogs, we have allowed too many of you.

Yes we are like Bangladeshis and proud of it, but you should at least come out and stop creating these threads. We know how much you hate dark skin despite being UP pathan. Probably to do with the fact that you will never be accepted as true pakhtun lol especially in forum like this.

Now go around in more forums to troll dark looking Pakistanis. But at least you should come out as the way you are. No need to troll Pakis behind muhajir/karachi identity.

who said I was UP Pathan??? are you that paki nationalist guy with a really big nose? the guy who posted his picture here

[Karachi]

Honestly I have never seen any actual pashtun supremacist like this Karachi guy. This UP pathan is on another level. In OP he says Afghanistan is part of SA and how he would love to visit Sri Lanka (lie since he hates sight of dark skin which he probably himself have from his hindu UP ancestors he hates so much).

But he quickly turn around and say forget about Afghanistan, not even Kashmir should be part of south asia

I didn't say Afghanistan was part of south asia, that's why I have a question mark on the thread title, do you understand what a question mark is?

[tilla_jogian]

who said I was UP Pathan??? are you that paki nationalist guy with a really big nose? the guy who posted his picture here

hahahha

Now why you hiding your real identity UP pathan? Do I need to remind you who you actually are?

[Kushan Prince]

[MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] and others,

I'm going to place this tripledouble troll on ignore as it's clear to me that despite his ostensibly pleasant and polite exterior he is nothing more than an apologist for the Pakistani military and its genocide and ethnic cleansing.



No need for this guy to try and act clever and show us all how smart he is.

No need to dazzle us with his "knowledge".

He could have merely left it at Castile or Fars but he showed his ignorance by mentioning Tuscany and Normandy.

a: Normandy is a peripheral area of France that very few French care about, the actual area of France with a lot of power now and in the past few hundred years is the Ile de Paris, i.e. the statelet of Paris.


b: Tuscany is a not-so important region of Italy, whose main importance in Italian nation-building is that standard Italian is based on the dialect of Tuscany.

In Italy there is no region with dominance, but the key industrial province is Lombardy (where Milan is situated), but historically the province that united Italy is Piedmont.

In fact Italy can be regarded as having been an expanded Piedmont, in the way that Germany was an expanded Prussia.


To any of the almost 60 million Italians, or 80 million Germans this would be an incredibly ignorant statement to hear.


However this is relatively unimportant compared to the next few points, and in of itself it is totally irrelevant except to show that this guy cannot be trusted despite seeming to know "facts" and possess "knowledge"






Notice how he euphemistically as part of his agenda of defending the Pakistani army on this forum says "some" discrimination, and then lies and attributes separation to distance.

Nonsense!

Bengalis separated because genocide was being conducted against them by the same army that was supposed to defend and not slaughter and rape Pakistani Muslim citizens (which is what Bengalis were in 1971).

Operation "searchlight" is what led Bengalis to independence.

A campaign of genocide that even Europeans who knew about it said it was worse than what even the Nazis did in WW2.



Prior to that it was the systematic decades of discrimination, as well as micro-level (i.e. on a personal level) humiliation lorded upon them by West Pakistani civil servants.

More importantly was how West Pakistan used east Pakistan for money, sucked cash out of it to fund the western wing and gave very little of the money (east Pakistan's money) back.

Anyway Bangladesh is independent now.

Bangladeshis are to an extent anti-Indian but this is not the same as the Pakistani hatred for India.

The difference between Bangladeshi dislike for India and Pakistani hatred is like the difference between an annoyed liberal voter disliking Obama and a member of the KKK hating Obama.


a: Liberal voter dislikes Obama not because of what he is, but what he does.

He may not like his policies but if Obama were to change and produce results he would accept that and be ok with him.


b: KKK racist hates Obama because of what he is, not what he does.

He is black.

Period.

Obama could be the greatest man on earth but because of the "crime" of being black, they will hate him, with a deep, disgusting animalistic almost murderous hatred.



Similarly most Bangladeshis dislike India merely because of some of the policies of the New Delhi government which if altered can mean we have positive views.

However Pakistani hatred of India is very central and fundamental to the whole concept of Pakistan and to the identity of Pakistan. "Evil Hindu" India is a sworn and eternal enemy that must one day be vanquished in the inevitable and much longed-for clash-of-clashes that will finally see a Pakistani victory over these "evil" and "inferior" Hindus.

It is akin to the Arab hatred for Jewish Israel.


It is only on a Pakistani military site will you see members of the small pro-Pakistan minority in Bangladesh spouting incessant hatred against India and other lies e.g. Bangladesh being a puppet of India (complete nonsense).




Nonsense!

Military dictator Parvez Musharraf took over power in 1999 and then gave it up in 2008.

So Pakistan has not had a military leader for 7 years only.

Less than a decade.

Spare us pedantic nonsense about him being a civilian and wearing a suit in his later years of rule or his false elections.

The man was a military dictator.



Military dictator, Musharraf.


Apologist for Pakistani genocide and ethnic cleansing


- To sum up this man is an apologist for Pakistani genocide and also the illegal ethnic cleansing of Afghan refugees from Pakistan.

His main strategy apart from being very pedantic and often either intentionally lying or just being ignorant/mistaken is to say the following.

"....BUT OTHERS DID IT TOO!"

Pakistan is not just any other country

- It has slaughtered and raped far more Muslims than Israel.

- Used its army to carry out a systematic genocide against an unarmed civilian population including mass rape of women in 1971, countries like India, Afghanistan, Brazil, Nigeria, Mexico, Malaysia etc have never done this.

It is not just another country.

- Has made 3 million of its own citizens homeless in the past few years.


- Is a militaristic state glorifying its army, militarism and hatred of India.

It is a fascist militaristic state.


- Sponsors terrorist groups e.g. Lashkar Jhangvi, Jamat-ud-dawah.

Terrorist groups that attack the parliament of other states i.e. India.



99% of countries in the world do not behave like Pakistan.

It is a state which has committed genocide and the most atrocious crimes.


[MENTION=3580]asad71[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1234]Smarty[/MENTION]
[MENTION=17579]Loy Afghanistan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=5723]Kushan Prince[/MENTION]
[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION]

He's an ISI loon with an agenda. Case closed.