Invitation to Barakzai to secularism

[Tamim]

It means political Islam only exists in books and functioned only for 30 years out of 1400 years of the history of Islam and that too with events like war of Ayesha and Ali where 30,000 Muslims were killed. So a wise person will still struggle for political Islam which could not work for the last 1400 years?

The point that I was making was that people need to fully submit to what Islam brought, otherwise it would be futile to pick and choose. You will only be at a loss.

Islam is a complete form of life, political and spiritual.

You cannot focus on one or two incidences and judge the future of Islam with it. I mean you can, but what use is there to continue to call yourself a Muslim when you concluded that Islam is not a complete teaching?

Why even waste your time in believing in God? If you have found inconsistencies, then it is only foolish on your part to still call yourself a Muslim.

[Badlun]

The point that I was making was that people need to fully submit to what Islam brought, otherwise it would be futile to pick and choose. You will only be at a loss.

Islam is a complete form of life, political and spiritual.

You cannot focus on one or two incidences and judge the future of Islam with it. I mean you can, but what use is there to continue to call yourself a Muslim when you concluded that Islam is not a complete teaching?

Why even waste your time in believing in God? If you have found inconsistencies, then it is only foolish on your part to still call yourself a Muslim.

What is the definition of a Muslim? One who believes in the five fundamentals. Thats all. No where it is mentioned that for a Muslim you must believe in political Islam or Islamism. Otherwise you agree what is claimed by A lQaeda , Taliban, ISIS, Hamas etc.

I believe in Sufi Hanafi Islam. And except Salafists, Wahabis grand majority of Muslims are Sufi or non Wahabi Muslims and I am one of them. I follow Islam of Abuzar, Ashabe Sufa, Rabia Basri, junaid, chishti, Awlya, data Ganj bakhsh and otehrs. they knew that Sultan and Sufi are different not one.

[Tamim]

My friend, you are picking and choosing what Islam is, or should be.

The belief in God (which is a loaded word) is a loaded term. So, naturally, the five pillars of faith are heavy to carry.

Islam is not a system where you only focus on spirituality. There is also a penal code in the Quran.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

My friend, you are picking and choosing what Islam is, or should be.

The belief in God (which is a loaded word) is a loaded term. So, naturally, the five pillars of faith are heavy to carry.

Islam is not a system where you only focus on spirituality. There is also a penal code in the Quran.

Don't waste your time wroraka. He has had this issue addressed about 1001 times with the same evidences and references leading to the same loaded questions leading to his intellectual defeats. This is the syndrome Gary Miller once described is inherent to missionaries. Miller pointed out that he once used the red letter Bible to confront some assertions that missionaries peddle as pseudo intellectual challenges (e.g. How can a buried prophet by a real prophet). The following week miller found the same missionaries using the same debunked arguments again with different unsuspecting folks.

Merely refer him to the 1001 prior discussions and save yourself the time of day as he is not merely secularist, but a missionary of militant secularism.

Read his devotions to Osho thread and all will become clear. He claims Osho as his spiritual guru.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Here is the Osho thread ( he used to be known as Osho instead of badlun - which was sad since I had originally attributed some artistic merit to his sn assuming he was using the pashto word osho as in "it's done"- boy was I wrong )

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=21291&highlight=Osho

[Tamim]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

jazakallahu khairan!

I will stay away then.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

jazakallahu khairan!

I will stay away then.

No problem brother. Read the Osho thread above and all will become clear. Take care and be safe.

[Toramana]

It was a shoddy attempt since you took ownership of those words by not delineating in quotes where others' words began and where you words ended.

In the worst case scenario you plagiarized another's argument on this basis since you neither quoted nor referenced the exact source.

Additionally, even indirectly, you ascribed to the Prophet that which he did not say (e.g. assuming Hamza and Abu Bakr carried equivalency foster brother relationships).

Furthermore, by choosing this brand of criticism and this particular vitriol you maligned him, disobeying the Quranic edict:

2:104[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

Even a non-Muslim like Montgomery Watt knows how to better discuss the Prophet from a critical standpoint then the sort of drivel and disrespect you reproduced here.

You are living in the secular environment of a Western country which has given you the full right to practice religion according to your belief and also has granted you the freedom of speech which you have taken full advantage of by propagating views that can hardly be called healthy or compatible with the values and citizenship obligations to which you have taken oath of loyalty.

But now you are taking that advantage to a level where you are hurling veiled threats at Badlun Saib by blaming him for blasphemy. Obviously, your objective is to terrorize him and other people on this forum that don't agree with you in some matters of faith into silence. This is not to mention your relentless extremist campaign on this forum.

Are you not entering into a risk domain and are becoming a threat to others that may not share with you your religious beliefs?

[Toramana]

Besides, living in a secular environment, one of the requirement from you is to be tolerant to other people views no matter how contrary those are to yours. Isn't against the law that you are threatening others with blasphemy? Why the hell you want to have the right to say what you want to but try to silence others?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You are living in the secular environment of a Western country which has given you the full right to practice religion according to your belief and also has granted you the freedom of speech which you have taken full advantage of by propagating views that can hardly be called healthy or compatible with the values and citizenship obligations to which you have taken oath of loyalty.

No no Toramana, let's qualify that moronic statement you made. First of all, I find it interesting that propagating the correct view of the Prophet Muhammad (i.e. regarding his marriage to Aisha, regarding contemporaneous views of his marriage, regarding defending him from insults like "unethical") is in your mind incompatible with an oath of loyalty? Pray tell, is that your subliminal view of YOUR ideal secular nation? Last I checked, defense of the character of the greatest man ever to walk the Earth was not against the First Amendment.


But now you are taking that advantage to a level where you are hurling veiled threats at Badlun Saib by blaming him for blasphemy.

Perhaps you would like to answer on his behalf? Here you go, have at it:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Badlun Quote 1: Denouncing the Prophet and uttering the unthinkable blasphemy

"Age of Aisha is enough to denounce Muhammad for having had sex with a nine-year-old, and critics refer to Muhammad as a pedophile."

Badlun Quote 2: Accusing the Prophet of being morally convenient to himself

"But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like"

Badlun Quote 3: Calling the Prophet unethical based on an incorrect interpretation

Quote:

""But Ayesha must have been too pretty for the Prophet to abide by the codes of ethics and custom."

Badlun Quote 4: Calling the Prophet a criminal

Quote:
"

"Is it not a crime to marry a child playing with dolls?""

Badlun Quote 5: Questioning the validity of obeying the Prophet based on purposefully confusing personal actions and nonexistent orders

Quote:
"QUOTE]"If we cannot follow the morality of Muhammad any more, if what he said and did do not fit in this modern day, why we need Muhammad?""

Badlun Quote 6: Claiming that the Prophet's contemporaries did criticize his marriage in the same fashion as Badlun called him a criminal in 4 above:

Quote:

"there would have been a lot of criticism of this marriage but we may not have evidence of that now"

^with this above quote demanding that readers suspend the need for proof and assume that some random criticism exists somewhere that we have yet to find.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now explain to us the application of this ayaat with respect to the above?

"

O ye of Faith! Say not (to the Messenger) words of ambiguous import, but words of respect; and hearken (to him): To those without Faith is a grievous punishment. (Surah 2)

Or:

[QUOTE[ If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed” [/QUOTE] Surah 9

Obviously, your objective is to terrorize him and other people on this forum that don't agree with you in some matters of faith into silence. This is not to mention your relentless pro-Al-Qaueda and pro-terrorism campaign on this forum.

Lol, Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak. What you define as that is what most, including Michael Scheuer, would define as a thorough intellectual debunking and thrashing of your equally thorough retarded reasoning on why the world is consumed in this conflict.

It is supremely satisfying to expose the likes of Miss Andersen, Thaqi, AIRRA and the whole rest of your war mongering, chicken hawking, proxy super power using militant terroristic secularist rampaging crew.

Lets do that again while we have the chance!:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...931606455.html

As a matter of fact, the

only known survey

"on the ground in FATA" at the time was carried out by a "letterhead organisation" named the Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy whose conclusions can fairly be described as deeply unreliable and dubious. It claimed that 55 per cent of respondents in a survey it carried out in "parts of FATA that are often hit by American drones" (among which it curiously included Parachinar, which has never been hit and whose overwhelmingly Shia population is deeply hostile to the virulently anti-Shia Taliban) did not think that the attacks caused "fear and terror in the common people"; 52 per cent found them "accurate in their strikes"; and 58 per cent did not think they increased anti-Americanism.

I love how the mainstream is now realizing your misfit fasaad war mongering ways. It is truly an accomplishment.

Are you not entering into a risk domain and are becoming a threat to others that may not share with you your religious beliefs?

Never was a threat to the likes of Ghaznavi or Mostafa or others who were upfront and honest with their views where the former claimed atheism and the latter claimed agnosticism and operated above board and did not hide behind Islam and at the same time use innuendos and disgusting accusations against the Prophet and important Islamic patriarchs the way you and your crew does.

[/QUOTE]

I don't think you have any concern for freedom of speech or truth, rather you find the intellectual take downs and clear cut exposures threatening to your ability to spew garbage and lies.

Typical to a central Asian istan state dictator, you are trying to impose your sick worldview on a moderately secular republic with a healthy respect for religion in the hopes of silencing me.

[کیش]

Toramana, Badlun, Khostai, and the bimbo Hallo have been debunked hundreds of times here and yet repeat the same things. That means they are uneducated, biased and a waste of time. They'll never learn anything

[Toramana]

[/COLOR]
Badlun Quote 6: Claiming that the Prophet's contemporaries did criticize his marriage in the same fashion as Badlun called him a criminal in 4 above:

Quote:

^with this above quote demanding that readers suspend the need for proof and assume that some random criticism exists somewhere that we have yet to find.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now explain to us the application of this ayaat with respect to the above?
[/COLOR]

Or:

[QUOTE[ If you ask them (about this), they declare: ‘We were only talking idly and joking.’ Say: ‘Was it at Allaah, and His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger that you were mocking?’Make no excuse; you disbelieved after you had believed”

Surah 9

Obviously, your objective is to terrorize him and other people on this forum that don't agree with you in some matters of faith into silence. This is not to mention your relentless pro-Al-Qaueda and pro-terrorism campaign on this forum.

Lol, Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak. What you define as that is what most, including Michael Scheuer, would define as a thorough intellectual debunking and thrashing of your equally thorough retarded reasoning on why the world is consumed in this conflict.

It is supremely satisfying to expose the likes of Miss Andersen, Thaqi, AIRRA and the whole rest of your war mongering, chicken hawking, proxy super power using militant terroristic secularist rampaging crew.

Lets do that again while we have the chance!:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...931606455.html

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

I love how the mainstream is now realizing your misfit fasaad war mongering ways. It is truly an accomplishment.

Are you not entering into a risk domain and are becoming a threat to others that may not share with you your religious beliefs?

Never was a threat to the likes of Ghaznavi or Mostafa or others who were upfront and honest with their views where the former claimed atheism and the latter claimed agnosticism and operated above board and did not hide behind Islam and at the same time use innuendos and disgusting accusations against the Prophet and important Islamic patriarchs the way you and your crew does.

[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

I don't think you have any concern for freedom of speech or truth, rather you find the intellectual take downs and clear cut exposures threatening to your ability to spew garbage and lies.

Typical to a central Asian istan state dictator, you are trying to impose your sick worldview on a moderately secular republic with a healthy respect for religion in the hopes of silencing me.
[/QUOTE]

Try hard to conceal your violent fanatic and terror-addled views with that excuse. The plain fact is and even a moron can see it that you tried to threaten/terrorize Badlun into silence. And that is a harassment and criminal in any Western law. You know that very well.

One can know what can be the implications of the blame of blasphemy. That is like putting hands into hornets nest where hundreds of fanatic violent extremist can be incited to harm an innocent man. Your intentions here obviously were to incite violence. What you were doing was far beyond a defense.

Badlun is a soft-spoken balanced person and what he usually says is out of sincerity. Most of the time he is very objective and doesn't look at things in blank and white and does impartial analysis sifting acceptable from non- acceptable.

Rest as for the world being consumed in conflict, as long as intolerant ****-bags with savage violent views exist and are bent on enforcing their deranged subhuman vision of life on others, there will be strife for others and unfortunately Muslims as well.

One can well see the barbarian and sadist in you the way you tried to extract pleasure out of posting the the dead-body of Shaheed Dr. Najibullah. Even the most secularist here would feel aghast to post the pictures of the dead Osama but the likes of you completely filled with fanatic vengeful emotions can do that. In fact your brothers in mission and ideology have been doing that in FATA, Swat, by slitting throats and hanging dead bodies of innocent people from poles for others to see and get lesson from.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Surah 9
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR]
Obviously, your objective is to terrorize him and other people on this forum that don't agree with you in some matters of faith into silence. This is not to mention your relentless pro-Al-Qaueda and pro-terrorism campaign on this forum.

Lol, Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak. What you define as that is what most, including Michael Scheuer, would define as a thorough intellectual debunking and thrashing of your equally thorough retarded reasoning on why the world is consumed in this conflict.

It is supremely satisfying to expose the likes of Miss Andersen, Thaqi, AIRRA and the whole rest of your war mongering, chicken hawking, proxy super power using militant terroristic secularist rampaging crew.

Lets do that again while we have the chance!:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...931606455.html

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

I love how the mainstream is now realizing your misfit fasaad war mongering ways. It is truly an accomplishment.

Are you not entering into a risk domain and are becoming a threat to others that may not share with you your religious beliefs?

Never was a threat to the likes of Ghaznavi or Mostafa or others who were upfront and honest with their views where the former claimed atheism and the latter claimed agnosticism and operated above board and did not hide behind Islam and at the same time use innuendos and disgusting accusations against the Prophet and important Islamic patriarchs the way you and your crew does.

[/SIZE]

I don't think you have any concern for freedom of speech or truth, rather you find the intellectual take downs and clear cut exposures threatening to your ability to spew garbage and lies.

Typical to a central Asian istan state dictator, you are trying to impose your sick worldview on a moderately secular republic with a healthy respect for religion in the hopes of silencing me.
[/QUOTE]

Try hard to conceal your violent fanatic and terror-addled views with that excuse. The plain fact is and even a moron can see it that you tried to threaten/terrorize Badlun into silence. And that is a harassment and criminal in any Western law. You know that very well.

[B]LOLLLLL. Bullsh-it. Ask for an investigation- I'm all ready willing and able. The Hillsboro Church has said much worse than I including picketing US Soldier funerals with vulgar interruptions. Badlun initiated a discussion that he simply could not handle and you joined in and ended up losing and are now trying to save face for such a devastating defeat. You both made a series of false assertions about the Prophet Mohammad that were challenged vigorously. Badlun proceeded to say disgusting things (which you agreed with) about the Prophet and another party here also viewed it as blasphemy (which has no penalty in Western countries so relax LOL). I refer to our colleague Tamim who told Badlun the following:

@Baldun
Again, with all due respect, you keep bringing up this idea of Islam vs Islamism. You do not profess to the sunnah of the Prophet (saw); you question it. Thus, you cannot be a follower of Islam. The same book that you are quoting in your favour, and making it appear that you follow Islam, is the same book that mentions that you cannot understand Islam without the Prophet Muhammad (saw). You cannot question the life of the Prophet (saw). You can ask for clarification. You do not have to agree with the clarification.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=44591

One can know what can be the implications of the blame of blasphemy. That is like putting hands into hornets nest where hundreds of fanatic violent extremist can be incited to harm an innocent man. Your intentions here obviously were to incite violence. What you were doing was far beyond a defense.

LOOOOOOOOOOL. Nice try, as I never ascribed to the capital punishment or other responses to Blasphemy as has been stated in the past and have never condoned it. Your intentions are to cover up your insults on the personage of the Holy Prophet with your moronic reasoning. No wonder you and Taj Andersen are in cahoots - you both fabricate violence and data that results in innocents dying nearly daily across the world

Badlun is a soft-spoken balanced person and what he usually says is out of sincerity. Most of the time he is very objective and doesn't look at things in blank and white and does impartial analysis sifting acceptable from non- acceptable.

Says the miscreant that called him an imperial stooge pigeon and referred to his commentary as nauseating

Rest as for the world being consumed in conflict, as long as intolerant ****-bags with savage violent views exist and are bent on enforcing their deranged subhuman vision of life on others, there will be strife for others and unfortunately Muslims as well.

You mean savage and violent outcomes right? Based off the efforts by you and and your coterie of proven liars (AIRRA) and data fabricators and now proven faux Muslims by the text book definition (even according to Tamim above)

One can well see the barbarian and sadist in you the way you tried to extract pleasure out of posting the the dead-body of Shaheed Dr. Najibullah.

One can see the savage pleasure you derive out of posting his smiling visage despite his known proclivity for Pashtun killing and holocausting... far far worse of an offense in most Afghan views

Even the most secularist here would feel aghast to post the pictures of the dead Osama but the likes of you completely filled with fanatic vengeful emotions can do that.

No no lets elucidate, rather you are content to post spiritual blasphemy about the Prophet and to agree with non evidence based assertions and terms hurled at him, including the epitaph "pedophile."

In fact your brothers in mission and ideology have been doing that in FATA, Swat, by slitting throats and hanging dead bodies of innocent people from poles for others to see and get lesson from.

Hahahha, you mean no my brothers, but the spawn of your and your AIRRA crew's pro interventionalist and occupation stance ala the data of Robert Pape, right? Nice try to deflect your personal blame.

[/QUOTE]

x

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Surah 9
[/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR]
Obviously, your objective is to terrorize him and other people on this forum that don't agree with you in some matters of faith into silence. This is not to mention your relentless pro-Al-Qaueda and pro-terrorism campaign on this forum.

Lol, Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak. What you define as that is what most, including Michael Scheuer, would define as a thorough intellectual debunking and thrashing of your equally thorough retarded reasoning on why the world is consumed in this conflict.

It is supremely satisfying to expose the likes of Miss Andersen, Thaqi, AIRRA and the whole rest of your war mongering, chicken hawking, proxy super power using militant terroristic secularist rampaging crew.

Lets do that again while we have the chance!:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...931606455.html

[/COLOR][/LEFT]

I love how the mainstream is now realizing your misfit fasaad war mongering ways. It is truly an accomplishment.

Are you not entering into a risk domain and are becoming a threat to others that may not share with you your religious beliefs?

Never was a threat to the likes of Ghaznavi or Mostafa or others who were upfront and honest with their views where the former claimed atheism and the latter claimed agnosticism and operated above board and did not hide behind Islam and at the same time use innuendos and disgusting accusations against the Prophet and important Islamic patriarchs the way you and your crew does.

[/SIZE]

I don't think you have any concern for freedom of speech or truth, rather you find the intellectual take downs and clear cut exposures threatening to your ability to spew garbage and lies.

Typical to a central Asian istan state dictator, you are trying to impose your sick worldview on a moderately secular republic with a healthy respect for religion in the hopes of silencing me.
[/QUOTE]

Try hard to conceal your violent fanatic and terror-addled views with that excuse. The plain fact is and even a moron can see it that you tried to threaten/terrorize Badlun into silence. And that is a harassment and criminal in any Western law. You know that very well.

One can know what can be the implications of the blame of blasphemy. That is like putting hands into hornets nest where hundreds of fanatic violent extremist can be incited to harm an innocent man. Your intentions here obviously were to incite violence. What you were doing was far beyond a defense.

Badlun is a soft-spoken balanced person and what he usually says is out of sincerity. Most of the time he is very objective and doesn't look at things in blank and white and does impartial analysis sifting acceptable from non- acceptable.

Rest as for the world being consumed in conflict, as long as intolerant ****-bags with savage violent views exist and are bent on enforcing their deranged subhuman vision of life on others, there will be strife for others and unfortunately Muslims as well.

One can well see the barbarian and sadist in you the way you tried to extract pleasure out of posting the the dead-body of Shaheed Dr. Najibullah. Even the most secularist here would feel aghast to post the pictures of the dead Osama but the likes of you completely filled with fanatic vengeful emotions can do that. In fact your brothers in mission and ideology have been doing that in FATA, Swat, by slitting throats and hanging dead bodies of innocent people from poles for others to see and get lesson from.[/QUOTE]

By the way, I think you should tone it down and not insidiously incite violence against Badlun since you have a Pakistani Passport and it sounds to me like you are telling the forum that you view the punishment for blasphemy in line with the current blasphemy laws in the country of your birth and citizenship. We in the West do not advocate or condone the blasphemy laws that are practiced in your country. Please keep that violence out of Canada and the US please.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Toramana, Badlun, Khostai, and the bimbo Hallo have been debunked hundreds of times here and yet repeat the same things. That means they are uneducated, biased and a waste of time. They'll never learn anything

It unfortunately dealing with them is like a video game. Think of Super Mario Word back in the day with King Koopa and all of the level villains.

So if I recall correctly level 8 was the last level where King Koopa (the Giant Turtle with Spikes on his Shell) was the guy you had to pass on the bridge over the fire pit.

I think intellectual joust with Khostai is like the level 1 villain
Halloo is like the level 2 villain
Badlun is like that lakitu guy in the clouds:
http://www.mariowiki.com/lakitu
And then Toramana is King Koopa.

Its just a sad shame there is no Princess Toadstool to rescue at the end of it all when you win the game like we have.