Abortion?

[randolph85]

[Tjanaparh]

Abortion is murder. It is not part of a wman's integrity, it goes far out of it. The part of a womans integrity is not to make a baby, that is that should be respected, the rest is already an independent life that has its own integrity to defend.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That's a very good point, we need to change certain laws so that men don't have to be penalized if they choose not to be the father if the woman decides not to terminate the pregnancy.

[khushal]

That's a very good point, we need to change certain laws so that men don't have to be penalized if they choose not to be the father if the woman decides not to terminate the pregnancy.

are they not responsible for the consequences of their actions.

[khushal]

so if one can't predict that the fetus is of poor quality and abort, they should then be allowed to put it down at birth. like they used to, in the good, practical old days.

get rid o the low quality trash.

My father told me that in kabul, when a child was born with genetic defects, they would secretly kill the child out of shame. He said this was normal at one time and people still do this in Kabul.

[khushal]

people fornicated just as much without contraception and access to abortion as they do with, it's just back when contraception and abortion facilities were unavailable, there were more runaways and women who had coat hanger abortions in alleys or in underground places.

I wouldn't say as much, but it happened much less though.

[Tjanaparh]

is it so difficult to be master of your own sentiments and not your own sentiments to be master of yourself?
I think this is the root problem, abortion from the beginning says like "people are weak, so we have to resolve the consequences".
Why shouldn't people be educated strong to avoid "consequences"?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

is it so difficult to be master of your own sentiments and not your own sentiments to be master of yourself?
I think this is the root problem, abortion from the beginning says like "people are weak, so we have to resolve the consequences".
Why shouldn't people be educated strong to avoid "consequences"?

That's right, teach people to be individually responsble for their choices and this kind of stuff won't happen.

Don't ban abortion.

[faye]

as we can see, purification of the human race, was a good idea. the deviations are not being removed and their psychoses are turning to perversions, as the above shows.
30 year old muslims male, having incontinent granny fetishes. yikes, messy

[tor_khan]

^ I think it may be possible to separate RTR's being Muslim from that sentence and you could still make your point.

Hope all is well Faye .

As for the topic itself; well to me it has always been about the worse aspects of human social engineering - i.e. abortion has routinely been used to relieve people of the embarrassment, burden, inconvenience etc. of taking responsibility of children who are the weakest and most dependent on us.

If people abandoned or killed a two day old child or a six month old that is equally unable to fend for itself, then we'd consider it murder/abuse. Choose to use a different word a couple of months before birth, sometimes even at the point that a child could technically be viable and we call it abortion.

Sure there are instances when difficult choices need to be made and abortion will happen, but this is not the same as gender selection in India or irresponsible teenagers in Swansea.

[faye]

why should i separate him from being muslim tor_khan?
i think he is doing a fine job of that himself, don't you?
me? i'm fine. still kickin'.

[Catya Sher]

That Idiot is sharper than a tack !

I am repeating this excellent comment by Karachi which deserves
much more attention.

It needs to sink in much more to those who seem to be debating from
detached viewpoints.
Karachi says :

I am totally against it, unless it is under some speical circumstances. I am totally against the way it does in western countries, there are some 1500-2000 abortions done here in canada every year, most of those are simply killing the baby, it is so horrible, I wonder why the so called "rights" group never speak against such violence. They are big hypocrites

By the way all those hyped-up stories the North American media does
about child disappearances or weird, gross things to try to drum up
evil fascination or hold the attention of the public on some case
such as this casey anthony - which I refused to even LOOK at ! -
are
ALL
FAKE !

To the last one.

Don't ever get involved emotionally in any of these sob stories about
families or individuals.

THIS, then, is the reason that TRUE human tragedies are never reported.
They aren't part of the brainwashing agenda of the evil forces who rule
these nations currently. It can always change, God Willing. But
for the moment, there is nothing, not one thing, to be gained from
listening to any popular media story being discussed all over.

Rather than feeling like one is "out of it" for NOT knowing all these
supposed dramas taking place, it's best to totally avoid giving
any of one's attention to all the lies being broadcast to
keep the public from getting bored. At the minimum.
Really, it's to make people stupid and malleable to suggestions
from media for the future.

[faye]

Making fun of an elderly woman who has nothing better to do with the remaining dwindling years of her existence, bashing things which she relies on for survival is hardly ever a deviation

as for Tor Khan, I think your remark itself justifies the necessity for abortion, Why should irresponsible tramps in Swansea breed? If anything that irresponsibility demonstrates exactly why abortion is a needed facility.

Imagine if abortion was banned, would it suddenly make people more moral? more responsible? In fact, Amongst Muslims in Europe, Abortion is rampant, Moroccans, Turkish, Abanian, Bosnian, Pakistani and yes even AFGHAN PASHTUN women in Europe are having abortions quite often. In fact the Higher Percentages of Abortions in Europe is done by Muslim women than ANY OTHER group in Europe. The same wagging finger approach which you often use to symbolize the ethics of Pashtuns was used for them, but did it stop them? no, people will do these things irregardless. The irresponsible will be who they are no matter how much preaching or educating you do.

A Fetus is NOT a Human life, not even in Islamic Cosmology, the soul waits six months before it decides to inhabit. Before then it is no more than a LUMP OF TISSUE, When a zygote is conceived it has less cells than a Fruit Fly, something we can observe actively with sentience. Thus the analogy with abandonment or murdering babies is not a valid or logical argument.

If abortion were banned, we'd have women who can't or WON'T handle children having them or orphanages filled beyond capacity, these children will never have a good quality life. There will be more criminals on the street as a result and it snowballs into worse. Or we can have what Casey Anthony did.

That's a woman who should have had an abortion, but ends up killing her kid by suffocating her with duct tape so she can go party.....sounds like something Faye probably would have done before she started on the walking cane.


Casey Anthony Laughs During Testimony (06.12.11) - YouTube

Abortion could have avoided this mess in the first place.

all this for me? you are getting easier to manipulate. anger is making you fragile and illogical, once again.

[کیش]

repeating a false argument doesn't make an argument true; but that' apparently is the mode of attack for the irrational when a sound refutation is lacking.

A fetus is not a baby it is not even cognizant, it doesn't have any electrical brain activity it is just a bunch of tissue in the 1st trimester. There is no murder. Islam allows abortion up until 120 days.

those are the facts, deal with it.

I'm calling you out on this one. Please provide a Quranic verse which states that you can terminate a fetus up until 120 days.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I'm calling you out on this one. Please provide a Quranic verse which states that you can terminate a fetus up until 120 days.

That's the thing, no where in the Qur'an or Hadith says you can't. So if there's nothing forbidding it, then you're allowed.