Abortion?

[amna.]

Lima I don't think you understand the concept of abortion in such a situation.

imagine someone raping your best friend who is a girl. How in the world can she live her life peacefully knowing that baby came from a rape.

[Palwasha]

I disagree with you.

Catya what happens if a women is raped. Can she still keep that baby and use the argument that God is giving it to her?

Then it is a test from her God, not necessarily to punish her, but He has his reasons for what occurs.

Any Muslim woman who has fallen prey to a rapist will be rewarded for bearing this calamity with patience, if she seeks Allah’s reward for the harm that has befallen her. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said 'No stress or exhaustion befalls the Muslim, nor worry or distress, even a thorn which pricks him, but Allah will expiate for his sins because of that.' (Reported by Al-Bukhari)

Furthermore, how can a child be punished for a crime it did not commit?

'Every child is born with a true faith (i.e., to worship none but Allah alone).' (Reported by al-Bukhari)

[IamDZJ]

Lima I don't think you understand the concept of abortion in such a situation.

imagine someone raping your best friend who is a girl. How in the world can she live her life peacefully knowing that baby came from a rape.

i would rather be logical than emotional about it amna. no one is asking any one to raise the child. all she has to do is give birth to it.

[amna.]

But as a woman won't you have any psychological thoughts about the child? Wouldn't you think about it? Wouldn't it always remind you of what had happened? I think you need to understand how someone feels when such a thing happens. The pain behind it is what's going to hurt.

[Saifullah]

Islam has mentioned this 120 days thing, after which the soul is blown into fetus. It is then 100% not allowed to abort the child unless the mothers life is at risk.

There is difference of opinion regarding the first 120 days of the fetus, and some allow abortion during this time for good reasons.

One of the basic principles of Islam is to relieve distress and hardship, so if a Muslim girl who is keen to remain chaste is exposed to bestial aggression and fears the effect that this may have on her reputation or her honour, or fears that she may be an outcast or that she may be subjected to harm such as being killed, or she fears that she may suffer psychological or nervous diseases, or that her sanity may be affected, or that shame may be brought upon her family for a matter in which she is not guilty of any sin, or that the child will not find any place of safety

Nowadays you can find out straight away if you are pregnant or not, so some scholars say the quicker you abort the child the better.

[Catya Sher]

Palwasha answered it best. I was going to say the same thing from a different angle: that the true spiritual person must OFFER UP to Allah ALL the sufferings endured. Not just a catastrophe like this would be. But everything. That gains huge merit when the person VOLUNTARILY and CONSCIOUSLY does this.
Palwasha said it much better, I am only suggesting that every day whatever anyone's tribulations, stressful incidents, disasters, everything irritating, people make a gift of the event to God. In return you will be blessed.

About this specific case, no matter how awful the situation was, it's still God's will that the conception of a child happened. We humans have no idea why.
But it's wise to respect that why did God allow this? What if the child turns out to be much nicer than expected? Perhaps it would look and be exactly the mother and her ancestors. There is no way to know in advance. Except to trust in God.
It's always bad to go against God. Humans think from human standpoints without trusting fully that God has a design.

Best of all though would be for all of us concerned people to make it a special project to pray for the protection of ALL women from having to endure such horrible fates. Or all Muslim women, let's say. Each prayer makes a gigantic difference. Angels will then rush to protect every woman in danger at the moment of prayer. The more people who pray, then, the better to rescue women from having to ever make such a decision.

Angels are waiting for all of us to just ask !

Therefore this role of prayer is a crucial one.

[Roshina]

I wonder if any of us have any kids . . . or are on the way to having any? I'm starting to think that unless we're in the mother's shoes, we shouldn't be deciding what SHE Should be doing with HER baby. Test from God? Say that to the person who's suffering! Say it to yourself when you're suffering. Everyone's different and doesn't have the same level of faith -- or any at all -- that you or I might have. Try to understand and respect that.

[Roshina]

I think it depends on intention and how did the mother get pregnant.

If she mess around she should have the child. Child should not suffer because of her inter mingling. If she was raped of course not.

Why? What crime has the child of a raped mother committed to be "murdered" when all other children should not be "murdered"?

And who are we, who is ANYONE, to judge the circumstances and decisions of a mother? What if the mother used all precautions available to her, is married, is passionately in love with her husband, and just doesn't want the child because of life circumstances? If women who are just messing around and get pregnant shouldn't abort their children, what about those women who don't mess around and just don't want to have babies -- carry babies?

[Palwasha]

Test from God? Say that to the person who's suffering! Say it to yourself when you're suffering. Everyone's different and doesn't have the same level of faith -- or any at all -- that you or I might have. Try to understand and respect that.

I would say it to anyone who suffers, as we all suffer in different ways. No one is exempt, and by the way I do say it to myself. Yes we may have different levels of faith, that's why such events occur, so we may gain reward and we are brought closer to God.

It is a test of faith; your 'result' (in the hereafter) will depend on your actions, just like an exam grade would depend on its given answers.

[Catya Sher]

After all, we all know that ALL of our lives are only a test.
Every minute, we are tested.

We have to be cooperative with God and try to behave the right way.

Some people get rebellious and say "What right does God have to test 'Me'" and they fail of course.
Not good to have this type of person as a friend because the mentality is not right.

Better to seek out those who inherently understand this testing phenomenon and who try, like A+ students, to pass every one with highest grades.

Not just to slide by with a C or a C-.

On THIS scale, if a woman handles the trauma of this or similar situations with grace and resignation to the Will of God, then she will get her A !
Every bit you do with faith will come back in wonderful and unexpected ways.

So yes, Jasmine, of course I think that all times the child MUSt be kept. There can't be any question to do otherwise.
There ARE NO ACCIDENTS of circumstance. The child WAS conceived because God sent THAT particular child to THAT particular woman at THAT moment !

To resist this can only be one thing: a slap in the face to God!

It's an outrage, seen from Heaven's standpoint, I imagine, that humans debate whether they have options about this or not. Those who live just believing in the material plane of life can sit around forever patting themselves on the back for being "liberated".

What good does that do when you 'get your "report card"' after you die? You would shed bitter tears of remorse when you might be shown all the mistakes you made that could so easily have been instead conformed to what God has planned for you ?

Furthermore, if anyone, a man or a woman, talks a family member or friend OUT of having an abortion, that person will receive a very special credit.

However, if one aids and abets abortion: a serious black mark.

If you don't know what you think about it, then why not be on the safe side and don't encourage the person to have it? Just be careful because there are bad spirits around that woman and they may lash out at YOU for not agreeing with her.

[Dawezai]

but that still doesn't change the fact that the child is hers and the ultimate decision lies in her hand.

That the child is hers does not take away the right of the child to live.

Gulalai Guley, what about married women who want to have abortion? They're not hooking up with just some random guys; they are simply performing one of their most natural rights and privileges as married individuals. Ka sanga? Plus, some people just can't afford to have (a lot of) kids; they're practical enough to know that things don't just fall from the sky for us, so you have to actually work to live and support your family/children.

In that case, they need to take extra care and not be overwhelmed by the ecstasy of the pre-conception act.

As far as "killing the baby" is concerned, it depends on which stage the abortion takes place at. If it's in the most incipient stages, then it's not considered murder.

I agree with you on this.

[amna.]

After all, we all know that ALL of our lives are only a test.
Every minute, we are tested.

We have to be cooperative with God and try to behave the right way.

Some people get rebellious and say "What right does God have to test 'Me'" and they fail of course.
Not good to have this type of person as a friend because the mentality is not right.

Better to seek out those who inherently understand this testing phenomenon and who try, like A+ students, to pass every one with highest grades.

Not just to slide by with a C or a C-.

On THIS scale, if a woman handles the trauma of this or similar situations with grace and resignation to the Will of God, then she will get her A !
Every bit you do with faith will come back in wonderful and unexpected ways.

So yes, Jasmine, of course I think that all times the child MUSt be kept. There can't be any question to do otherwise.
There ARE NO ACCIDENTS of circumstance. The child WAS conceived because God sent THAT particular child to THAT particular woman at THAT moment !

To resist this can only be one thing: a slap in the face to God!

It's an outrage, seen from Heaven's standpoint, I imagine, that humans debate whether they have options about this or not. Those who live just believing in the material plane of life can sit around forever patting themselves on the back for being "liberated".

What good does that do when you 'get your "report card"' after you die? You would shed bitter tears of remorse when you might be shown all the mistakes you made that could so easily have been instead conformed to what God has planned for you ?

Furthermore, if anyone, a man or a woman, talks a family member or friend OUT of having an abortion, that person will receive a very special credit.

However, if one aids and abets abortion: a serious black mark.

If you don't know what you think about it, then why not be on the safe side and don't encourage the person to have it? Just be careful because there are bad spirits around that woman and they may lash out at YOU for not agreeing with her.

Catya Sher on a spiritual level I agree with you but your examples are hardly convincing me when its come to practical level.

Let me give you an example, lets suppose someone gets raped. Gets pregnant. How in the world can she keep that baby that is not completely hers and mixed with genes of someone who forcefully(tortured)had adult related activities with her.

I think there is more to it. I think this should be made an exception. I look forward to your response.

[Iqra]

^ Let me ask you this ...

A mother who carries a child around for 9 months and then gives birth, do you think her and the child have a special bond? or is that special bond built once the child is born and the mother has some sort of experiences with the baby?

[amna.]

of course they do. She is taking all that pain all those kicks and you think she won't have feelings?

let me ask you a question how an a woman live without being near her child and knowing this baby is now in existence not because I wanted to but because someone punched me kicked me and raped me.

[Roshina]

What I desperately need to understand is this:

Just because the mother's gonna be reminded of her painful rape experience, it's acceptable for her to "murder" an innocent baby who did not have a say in whether to be born or not? But it's not okay in other cases? But why? Is one baby more innocent than the other? Why does one baby deserve to live just because he/she is not a product of an excruciating and haunting experience, but the other baby doesn't just because she/he is?

I'm not convinced with the reasoning so far, but I want to be convinced.