Who are baloch people???

[proud_pashtun]

i mean ahmedzai, barakzai, baranzai are pashtuns whose ancestors married baloch women and were mixed with balochs thats why they look baloch and they speak baluchi/brahvi and raisani is subtribe of a pashtun tribe Named Tarin, they are subtribe of tor tarin, There are raisani pashtuns in ziarat (a pashtun district of balochistan) and afghanistan.

[Smarty]

ahmedzai, branzai, barakzai are pashtun agreed. But not raisani, you are wrong.

Also provide some proof if you want to say that those are pashtun tribes/baloch tribes.

What do you mean "baloch by mother"? not all of them are baloch by mother or pashtun by mother or pashtun by father or baloch by father.

Also Have you heard about Ameer Sardar Dost Mohammad Khan Baloch? He is a Baloch Ameer, meaning he is military leader and commander. If you tell him he is actually a 'Pashtun', you will make him angry and seriously destroy his pride since he is an ethnic 'Baranzai'.

"Baran" is pashto word so is "zai", i wonder how they ended up being baranzai?

[Smarty]

Through google i have found out that raisani is branch of tor tareen tribe of pashtuns in mastung, though they are now included in balochs.
I might be wrong but it seems many tribes in northern balochistan were once pashtuns but adopted balochi langauge. Even about the famous mari tribe it is written that one of its sub-tribe is pashtun, they were incorporated. My conclusion is that baloch are highly inclusive people , they assimilated various groups ranging from negroid mekranis to dravadian brohai , pashtuns and jats (jamali tribe claims to be jats). Some verifications are needed.

[Smarty]

Ahmedzai and Bungalzai are baloch tribes not pashtun and their language is bravi noori nasir khan Ahmedzai baloch defeated Ahmed Shah Abdali in (1758) check the history baloch afghan war in 1758 we won
this pic is the prove that Ahmedzai is a baloch tribe i know there is a pashtun ahmedzai tribe aswell but we also have ahmedzai baloch tribe

Nasir khan didnt defeat Ahmad shaha abdali, his qalat was vassal state of durrani empire. Why nasir khan with his baloch lashkar went along with ahmad shah abdali to panipat war if he was such a fearsome enemy of durranis according to you?

You guys are lying and exaggerating like sikhs. It wont help much, it would damage the credibility of baloch sources.

[Smarty]

That story sounds a bit fishy consedering sher shah never lost a battle.

Bit fishy? Baloch accounts of Mir chakar are considered highly fictional. According to accurate and neutral sources mir chakar of rind tribe was a fearsome looter who used to raid and pillage southern punjab for loot, it was norm in those times. Haibat khan niazi, the governor of punjab and a general of sher shah suri, sent an army to restore peace in multan and rest of south puntab which were disturbed due to baloch incursions. The organized army of niazis easily defeated rinds, mir chakar himself got killed along with most of his men.
Balochs have these romantic and exaggerated folk tales about a sardar which was nobody in events and history of subcontinent.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

Through google i have found out that raisani is branch of tor tareen tribe of pashtuns in mastung, though they are now included in balochs.
I might be wrong but it seems many tribes in northern balochistan were once pashtuns but adopted balochi langauge. Even about the famous mari tribe it is written that one of its sub-tribe is pashtun, they were incorporated. My conclusion is that baloch are highly inclusive people , they assimilated various groups ranging from negroid mekranis to dravadian brohai , pashtuns and jats (jamali tribe claims to be jats). Some verifications are needed.

Through google? Look what I found through google about Raisanis.

The ancestor of the Raisani tribe, Rais Qutabuddin, came from Iraq. According to a saying Baloch tribes migrated from Halab/Aleppo. Rais migrated to Afghanistan. He settled for a limited time in Ziarat "Qawas" (Some historians believe that his tomb is located at Ziarat). Many Raisani live in Ziarat, speaking Pashto due to influence from their surroundings. Rais Qutabuddin may have come to Chaapar in Kalat with his siblings.

Google is not your best source. It appears to be your making your judgements and credility from Google. I suggest reading books about Baloch history, it will make sense slowly.

Google is your credibility? amazing I must say.

Mari tribe are pashtuns? What you are doing is attacking the mainstream proper Baloch tribes and calling them Pashtuns. Mari being one of the first Baloch tribes to ever exist in Baloch history, calling them pashtuns will make the Baloch extremely angry and would be attacking their identity. True, the Baloch did assimilate various groups (mekranis, seraikis etc) but their original roots trace back to the Kurds from Syria, Aleppo (Kurdish people). Read some books, I'm too lazy to explain the origin.

Nasir khan didnt defeat Ahmad shaha abdali, his qalat was vassal state of durrani empire. Why nasir khan with his baloch lashkar went along with ahmad shah abdali to panipat war if he was such a fearsome enemy of durranis according to you?

You guys are lying and exaggerating like sikhs. It wont help much, it would damage the credibility of baloch sources.

True, he seems to be exaggerating way too much. He is biased. However, I would suggest you read some books. I will PM you if you are interested, regarding Baloch origin or history. Also keep in mind the Baloch we're against Abdali. In fact, they actually helped him defeat various wars. There is a lot of history, alot of achievements/military invasions. However it will take a lot of time for me to explain so if you are interested I will suggest some books.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

Bit fishy? Baloch accounts of Mir chakar are considered highly fictional. According to accurate and neutral sources mir chakar of rind tribe was a fearsome looter who used to raid and pillage southern punjab for loot, it was norm in those times. Haibat khan niazi, the governor of punjab and a general of sher shah suri, sent an army to restore peace in multan and rest of south puntab which were disturbed due to baloch incursions. The organized army of niazis easily defeated rinds, mir chakar himself got killed along with most of his men.
Balochs have these romantic and exaggerated folk tales about a sardar which was nobody in events and history of subcontinent.

Yes, the Baloch did loot/raided Panjab. Regarding Mir chakar, you can't really say his accounts are considered highly fictional, since by reading your posts I can guarantee you, you are no historian, nor have you read any books regarding the subject. So it's not really fair of you to actually make a "claim", unless ofcourse you have read books to develop an proper opinion.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

i mean ahmedzai, barakzai, baranzai are pashtuns whose ancestors married baloch women and were mixed with balochs thats why they look baloch and they speak baluchi/brahvi and raisani is subtribe of a pashtun tribe Named Tarin, they are subtribe of tor tarin, There are raisani pashtuns in ziarat (a pashtun district of balochistan) and afghanistan.

The ancestor of the Raisani tribe, Rais Qutabuddin, came from Iraq. According to a saying Baloch tribes migrated from Halab/Aleppo. Rais migrated to Afghanistan. He settled for a limited time in Ziarat "Qawas" (Some historians believe that his tomb is located at Ziarat). Many Raisani live in Ziarat, speaking Pashto due to influence from their surroundings. Rais Qutabuddin may have come to Chaapar in Kalat with his siblings.

False, there is no such thing as Raisani pashtuns. The raisanis living in Ziarat are actually Baloch but they speak pashto because of the influence. Why isn't Raisani listed in the list of Pashtun tribes? If it were it would be listed under the tribes of Pashtuns, it's not. In Baloch, it is.

[proud_pashtun]

[MENTION=5607]M17ArnoBaloch[/MENTION], actually subtribes are in abdul hai habibis book, he has explained it very well, Ask the raisanis of ziarat they will tell you who they are, you posted wikipedia, every kid can edit wikipedia.

[proud_pashtun]

[MENTION=5607]M17ArnoBaloch[/MENTION] , OPEN THIS SITE THEY EXPLAIN RAISANI, AHMEDZAI, BANGALZAI ETC ARE PASHTUN TRIBES INFACT https://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-Ne...lly-my-Pashtun

[Smarty]

Through google? Look what I found through google about Raisanis.



Google is not your best source. It appears to be your making your judgements and credility from Google. I suggest reading books about Baloch history, it will make sense slowly.

Google is your credibility? amazing I must say.

Mari tribe are pashtuns? What you are doing is attacking the mainstream proper Baloch tribes and calling them Pashtuns. Mari being one of the first Baloch tribes to ever exist in Baloch history, calling them pashtuns will make the Baloch extremely angry and would be attacking their identity. True, the Baloch did assimilate various groups (mekranis, seraikis etc) but their original roots trace back to the Kurds from Syria, Aleppo (Kurdish people). Read some books, I'm too lazy to explain the origin.



True, he seems to be exaggerating way too much. He is biased. However, I would suggest you read some books. I will PM you if you are interested, regarding Baloch origin or history. Also keep in mind the Baloch we're against Abdali. In fact, they actually helped him defeat various wars. There is a lot of history, alot of achievements/military invasions. However it will take a lot of time for me to explain so if you are interested I will suggest some books.

I didnt say mari is pashtun tribe , one of its branch is said to be of pashtun origin. The question arises why mari balochs incorporated them?.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

I didnt say mari is pashtun tribe , one of its branch is said to be of pashtun origin. The question arises why mari balochs incorporated them?.

which branch? could you name it ? Be more specific.

[M17ArnoBaloch]

[MENTION=5607]M17ArnoBaloch[/MENTION] , OPEN THIS SITE THEY EXPLAIN RAISANI, AHMEDZAI, BANGALZAI ETC ARE PASHTUN TRIBES INFACT https://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-Ne...lly-my-Pashtun

Interesting Article.

Is this article 100% true? or is it a fake pashtun propaganda to invade Balochistan and wipe out Baloch identity? You know, when Balochistan gets independent, they will say "oh look" there is no such thing as Baloch, it's all pashtuns and were all pashtuns, even your khans (khan of kalats) were pashtuns, you're leaders were pashtuns, you guys are pashtuns, there is no such thing as a baloch. It's a fake concept.

it might be a fake pashtun propaganda to invade Balochistan and wipe out Baloch identity

Or maybe this article is right...

[MENTION=5607]M17ArnoBaloch[/MENTION], actually subtribes are in abdul hai habibis book, he has explained it very well, Ask the raisanis of ziarat they will tell you who they are, you posted wikipedia, every kid can edit wikipedia.

Yes, exactly, my point was not that whatever I took out from wikipedia and posted was true. The same way some people here are taking stuff out of wikipedia and claiming their verdict. Wikipedia is not a good source, nor is google. That's my point.

And Yes, it is true that Baloch are mixed with various different groups (negroid mekranis, pashtuns, seraikis, dravidians), But in their true form, they are descendants of Kurds (medes group) from Syria, Aleppo. Books shall be read for those of you who have not. If they are interested in that matter. And baloch are not just in Pakistan, about 4 million in Iran (sistan va Baluchestan province), Oman, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan. A small population also lives in Syria and Lebanon (original).

Also there are Russian Baloch. Baloch who happen to live in Russia (around 3000). However, they are not in their true form as they have become "white" mixing with the locals there. However, they still retain their last name "Baloch". Or Beloch, Beluch, Baluch, whatever way you wanna call it.

Same with the Kurds, they are widespread in places like Iraq, Syria, Iran and Lebanon.

[Smarty]

which branch? could you name it ? Be more specific.

Loharani.
History of the pathans by brig.haroon rasheed also confirms it. He also says that kehtran are pashtun by origin.

[Smarty]

@Marno17baloch
I dont think there is any conspiracy by pashtuns against baloch identity. Balochs in north west , of sulieman ranges, are neighbours of pashtuns so naturally there is a degree of over-lapping. Its not baloch but pashtun identity which is endangered in balochistan despite being 40% of total population. Its pashtuns who are getting absorbed by balochs, its them who are having identity crisis. They are mistaken as balochs by pakistanis. And due to social and political dominance, balochs are getting more share than they deserve. Not a single pashtun chief minister in entire history.