Dual nationality: 278 Afghans held for possessing Pak CNICs

[pashtanajan]

I can give you examples of it from PF, one of our own admin, bls is from shangla , lives in canada and identifies himself as afghan.
There also might be pashtuns from KP who would be identifying themeselves as white aryan people. In white countries, who want to be identified as brown desis? when they are related to relatively fair skinned afghans. But the fact is all of them are having dual nationalities, they are not discarding paki ones.

Well, Canada is different than most countries, racism isn't that prevalent here. It's one of the most multicultural and accepting nations of the world, so identifying themselves as "white aryan people" isn't an issue. In fact, where I live, there are more "outsiders" than people native to Toronto or people who have lived here for generations. And here, Afghans aren't really seen as "White Aryan People" they're usually viewed as Middle Easterners, Canadians don't really know the difference, and they don't even know Aryan applies to Afghans, or Persians for that matter. They believe the term "Aryan" is a racist term used during the Nazi period by Hitler.

Anyway, to get the point, most Pakistanis and Indians here form close communities with one another, they call themselves Desis, and aren't generally accepting of Pashtuns, they consider them outsiders, for their culture, food, and language is very different than theirs. Therefore, the Pashtun immigrants who arrive here from Pakistan feel more closely linked to the Pashtuns from Afghanistan, and feel more comfortable around them. Hours and days spent with the Afghani Pashtuns, they realize they are more tied with the Afghan community than the Pakistanione, so they call themselves Afghans instead, because it just makes more sense to them. Many South Asians here raise an eyebrow when a Pashtun calls himself a Pakistani, but many Afghans here don't even blink once if a Pashtun calls himself a Pakistani, because they've already considered him an Afghan.

[Michin Khel]

Well, Canada is different than most countries, racism isn't that prevalent here. It's one of the most multicultural and accepting nations of the world, so identifying themselves as "white aryan people" isn't an issue. In fact, where I live, there are more "outsiders" than people native to Toronto or people who have lived here for generations. And here, Afghans aren't really seen as "White Aryan People" they're usually viewed as Middle Easterners, Canadians don't really know the difference, and they don't even know Aryan applies to Afghans, or Persians for that matter. They believe the term "Aryan" is a racist term used during the Nazi period by Hitler.

Anyway, to get the point, most Pakistanis and Indians here form close communities with one another, they call themselves Desis, and aren't generally accepting of Pashtuns, they consider them outsiders, for their culture, food, and language is very different than theirs. Therefore, the Pashtun immigrants who arrive here from Pakistan feel more closely linked to the Pashtuns from Afghanistan, and feel more comfortable around them. Hours and days spent with the Afghani Pashtuns, they realize they are more tied with the Afghan community than the Pakistanione, so they call themselves Afghans instead, because it just makes more sense to them. Many South Asians here raise an eyebrow when a Pashtun calls himself a Pakistani, but many Afghans here don't even blink once if a Pashtun calls himself a Pakistani, because they've already considered him an Afghan.

Because pashtuns of both countries belong to same and one ethnicity and its natural that they would hang out with each other, its called community sense. When a pashtun from KP goes to islamabad or lahore, he is likely to approach his fellow pashtuns there than punjabis. Similarly west punjabis socialize with indian punjabis on the basis of shared ethnicity and langauge.
But you did'nt pick up my point, its very un-natural to deny your connection to pakistan once you get hands on foriegn nationality, i mean you go from swat or shangla or dir to canada or US as pakistani then suddenly there you remember your connection to afghanistan.
By the way check my past threads, i have opened numerous topics in which i inquired about level of unity between lar pashtuns and afghans in westren countries...most of the answers indicated that the gap is there between two groups of pashtuns there. 1) an afghan-pashtun there is likely to marry pashtun or tajik of afghanistan rather than of pakistan. 2) afghans have likely to have more social interactions with tajiks than pakistani pashtuns 3) in afghan marraiges tajiks are more likely to be invited than pakistani pashtuns 4) in social, cultural and musical programmes of afghanistan, pakistani pashtun's participation is not that much significant compared to their population.
I dont know if above opinions are true but that what i was told. I live in hayatabad and i dont see much social interactions between persianized pashtuns of afghanistan and locals, i imagine situation would be worse in the west.

[pashtanajan]

Because pashtuns of both countries belong to same and one ethnicity and its natural that they would hang out with each other, its called community sense. When a pashtun from KP goes to islamabad or lahore, he is likely to approach his fellow pashtuns there than punjabis. Similarly west punjabis socialize with indian punjabis on the basis of shared ethnicity and langauge.
But you did'nt pick up my point, its very un-natural to deny your connection to pakistan once you get hands on foriegn nationality, i mean you go from swat or shangla or dir to canada or US as pakistani then suddenly there you remember your connection to afghanistan.
By the way check my past threads, i have opened numerous topics in which i inquired about level of unity between lar pashtuns and afghans in westren countries...most of the answers indicated that the gap is there between two groups of pashtuns there. 1) an afghan-pashtun there is likely to marry pashtun or tajik of afghanistan rather than of pakistan. 2) afghans have likely to have more social interactions with tajiks than pakistani pashtuns 3) in afghan marraiges tajiks are more likely to be invited than pakistani pashtuns 4) in social, cultural and musical programmes of afghanistan, pakistani pashtun's participation is not that much significant compared to their population.
I dont know if above opinions are true but that what i was told. I live in hayatabad and i dont see much social interactions between persianized pashtuns of afghanistan and locals, i imagine situation would be worse in the west.

Actually, there's been many cases of Pashtuns from Afghanistan marrying the ones who live on the other border, but it's not really seen as big of a deal, because it happens so much. There's hundred of families with family that reside on both sides of the border. I've had many people marry into my family or out of my family into the Pashtuns living on the other side of the border. So, I don't know what you're talking about when you say that Afghan Pashtuns marry other Afghans rather than Pakistani Afghans, because I know so many people who are either descendants of Pashtuns of both sides of the border, or they either know a couple like that.

In fact, many Pashtuns (from both sides of the border, especially the ones that live in the villages and isolated locations) don't really see the border as something that's separating both of the nations, and usually they cross back and forth to visit family. Like, I have relatives in Quetta (they're natives, and have been there for generations) who travel back and forth from Afghanistan back to Pakistan.

And, yes, Pashtuns do marry Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. However, this is extremely rare, most Pashtun men still prefer to have a Pashtun wife, and there is hesitation to marry outside of the family/tribe. You see a lot of inter-ethnic marriage in the major cities, like Kabul for instance, but this is the case in most cities, like Lahore or Karachi in Pakistan. However, in most places, tribes still stick to each other, and don't marry someone from another ethnicity. It's extremely rare. And, obviously Persianized Pashtuns won't mingle with Pakistani Pashtuns, because usually Persianized Pashtuns don't know a word of Pashto, because they are heavily intermarried with the farsi speaking ethnicities of Afghanistan, so how will they communicate with the Pashtun locals, lol? Most of them have mother's that aren't even Pashtun.

And, I don't see why someone would believe there isn't many Pakistani Pashtun participation in Afghan ceremonies etc. Here in Canada, when there's a wedding, anyone regardless of where they've come from, who is a friend is invited.

Anyway, to get to the point. The Afghan Pashtun/Pakistani Pashtun community, at least here in Canada, prefer being with one another, and don't recognize or see each other as different. Many Pakistani Pashtuns feel strongly towards the Afghan cause, and recognize themselves as Afghans when asked. I think it's because they don't fit in well with the South Asian community here in Canada. The South Asian community mingle with each other instead. The Panjabis, Sindhis, and other communities in Pakistan that aren't Pashtun mingle with Indians, especially Gujratis and Indian Muslims because they're more culturally similar. And you say it's "un-natural for them to give up their Pakistani nationality", well I think they feel when the come to Canada, that they are most closely tied with Afghan Pashtuns than the other Pakistani ethnicities, and after many connections being formed between the Afghan Pashtuns and them, they begin to refer to themselves as Afghans instead, because they feel more culturally connected to them, which is logical. Although, there's some who refer to themselves as both Afghans, Pakistani, and Pashtun. I have a friend from Swat (he's a native) who has two big flags in his living room of Pakistan and Afghanistan. He has the best interest of both countries in his heart,

[Michin Khel]

Actually, there's been many cases of Pashtuns from Afghanistan marrying the ones who live on the other border, but it's not really seen as big of a deal, because it happens so much. There's hundred of families with family that reside on both sides of the border. I've had many people marry into my family or out of my family into the Pashtuns living on the other side of the border. So, I don't know what you're talking about when you say that Afghan Pashtuns marry other Afghans rather than Pakistani Afghans, because I know so many people who are either descendants of Pashtuns of both sides of the border, or they either know a couple like that.

In fact, many Pashtuns (from both sides of the border, especially the ones that live in the villages and isolated locations) don't really see the border as something that's separating both of the nations, and usually they cross back and forth to visit family. Like, I have relatives in Quetta (they're natives, and have been there for generations) who travel back and forth from Afghanistan back to Pakistan.

And, yes, Pashtuns do marry Tajiks, Uzbeks, etc. However, this is extremely rare, most Pashtun men still prefer to have a Pashtun wife, and there is hesitation to marry outside of the family/tribe. You see a lot of inter-ethnic marriage in the major cities, like Kabul for instance, but this is the case in most cities, like Lahore or Karachi in Pakistan. However, in most places, tribes still stick to each other, and don't marry someone from another ethnicity. It's extremely rare. And, obviously Persianized Pashtuns won't mingle with Pakistani Pashtuns, because usually Persianized Pashtuns don't know a word of Pashto, because they are heavily intermarried with the farsi speaking ethnicities of Afghanistan, so how will they communicate with the Pashtun locals, lol? Most of them have mother's that aren't even Pashtun.

And, I don't see why someone would believe there isn't many Pakistani Pashtun participation in Afghan ceremonies etc. Here in Canada, when there's a wedding, anyone regardless of where they've come from, who is a friend is invited.

Anyway, to get to the point. The Afghan Pashtun/Pakistani Pashtun community, at least here in Canada, prefer being with one another, and don't recognize or see each other as different. Many Pakistani Pashtuns feel strongly towards the Afghan cause, and recognize themselves as Afghans when asked. I think it's because they don't fit in well with the South Asian community here in Canada. The South Asian community mingle with each other instead. The Panjabis, Sindhis, and other communities in Pakistan that aren't Pashtun mingle with Indians, especially Gujratis and Indian Muslims because they're more culturally similar. And you say it's "un-natural for them to give up their Pakistani nationality", well I think they feel when the come to Canada, that they are most closely tied with Afghan Pashtuns than the other Pakistani ethnicities, and after many connections being formed between the Afghan Pashtuns and them, they begin to refer to themselves as Afghans instead, because they feel more culturally connected to them, which is logical. Although, there's some who refer to themselves as both Afghans, Pakistani, and Pashtun. I have a friend from Swat (he's a native) who has two big flags in his living room of Pakistan and Afghanistan. He has the best interest of both countries in his heart,

Dont take the discussion to border and quetta, i was talking about westren pashtuns, their enviroment is different from quetta and villages across durand....Your last part about situation in canada is sufficient.
There are very only few thousands afghans living in westren countries, they are not significant to overall pashtun nation. But they are focus of my discussions because they make 98-99% of total members of PF.

[faye]

there are many thousands of pashtuns overseas, luffy. if they are being educated, and or working, why are they not significant to their native nation? they are, if they return or assist in financial ways.

[Khostai]

Because pashtuns of both countries belong to same and one ethnicity and its natural that they would hang out with each other, its called community sense. When a pashtun from KP goes to islamabad or lahore, he is likely to approach his fellow pashtuns there than punjabis. Similarly west punjabis socialize with indian punjabis on the basis of shared ethnicity and langauge.
But you did'nt pick up my point, its very un-natural to deny your connection to pakistan once you get hands on foriegn nationality, i mean you go from swat or shangla or dir to canada or US as pakistani then suddenly there you remember your connection to afghanistan.
By the way check my past threads, i have opened numerous topics in which i inquired about level of unity between lar pashtuns and afghans in westren countries...most of the answers indicated that the gap is there between two groups of pashtuns there. 1) an afghan-pashtun there is likely to marry pashtun or tajik of afghanistan rather than of pakistan. 2) afghans have likely to have more social interactions with tajiks than pakistani pashtuns 3) in afghan marraiges tajiks are more likely to be invited than pakistani pashtuns 4) in social, cultural and musical programmes of afghanistan, pakistani pashtun's participation is not that much significant compared to their population.
I dont know if above opinions are true but that what i was told. I live in hayatabad and i dont see much social interactions between persianized pashtuns of afghanistan and locals, i imagine situation would be worse in the west.

Yes actualy you are right, In Belgium most Afghan PAshtun don't have that much connection whith the Paki Pashtuns, and Afghan Pashtun that marry Pashtuns from Pakistan were also Afghan Pashtun they just fled there during the war, some of my families who live in Pakistan are married to PAshtun that were from Khost but live in Pakistan for 20 or 15 years....I don't know any familie who have married a Pakistani Pashtun....
And the persianized Pashtun don't excist, we actualy Pashtunized the Tajiks and Uzbacks, if you look at there clothing there manners most of that are somewhat similaire to us. Becuase the traditional clothing of tajiks in Tajikistan is difrent than what Tajiks are wearing in Afghanistan, the same whith Uzbacks. I have a pashtun channel from PAkistan and there pashtu is half English mixed whith Urdu, and you call us persianized...-_-.

[Michin Khel]

there are many thousands of pashtuns overseas, luffy. if they are being educated, and or working, why are they not significant to their native nation? they are, if they return or assist in financial ways.

They are not. Unlike pakistanis and indians, overseas afghans are not that much in number for obvious reasons. And they may appear strong financially in afghanistan and pakistan, but in those foriegn countries they are in bottom in terms of income along with pakistanis. Their only asset would be their education or skill etc, which is no use for motherland unless they return to it, which they cant.

[Michin Khel]

Yes actualy you are right, In Belgium most Afghan PAshtun don't have that much connection whith the Paki Pashtuns, and Afghan Pashtun that marry Pashtuns from Pakistan were also Afghan Pashtun they just fled there during the war, some of my families who live in Pakistan are married to PAshtun that were from Khost but live in Pakistan for 20 or 15 years....I don't know any familie who have married a Pakistani Pashtun....
And the persianized Pashtun don't excist, we actualy Pashtunized the Tajiks and Uzbacks, if you look at there clothing there manners most of that are somewhat similaire to us. Becuase the traditional clothing of tajiks in Tajikistan is difrent than what Tajiks are wearing in Afghanistan, the same whith Uzbacks. I have a pashtun channel from PAkistan and there pashtu is half English mixed whith Urdu, and you call us persianized...-_-.

There is no point in denying it, persianized pashtuns exists, many of your own afghans confirm it.... We have similar "desified pashtuns"
And thanks for your input, which is opposite to pashtanajan's description.

[Khostai]

I think those peopel don't know what persian culture is. There is a big difrence between the culture in Afghanistan as a whole and between Iran and Tajikistan...
And some confuse persian culture whith western culture..
Men wearing suits and women wearing western clothes is not persian...
Yes some Pashtun are westernised but saing persianized don't make really any sence....

[faye]

persians were very different from the afghans that i dealt with in afghanistan. i visited and ate at persian homes and worked with the men daily, in both countries. for about a month in iran and about 3 weeks in afghanistan.

[Khostai]

persians were very different from the afghans that i dealt with in afghanistan. i visited and ate at persian homes and worked with the men daily, in both countries. for about a month in iran and about 3 weeks in afghanistan.

Yes but still this peopel claim Pashtun being persianized :S when the farsiban in Afghanistan are not that persian to begin whith ....

[pashtanajan]

Yes actualy you are right, In Belgium most Afghan PAshtun don't have that much connection whith the Paki Pashtuns, and Afghan Pashtun that marry Pashtuns from Pakistan were also Afghan Pashtun they just fled there during the war, some of my families who live in Pakistan are married to PAshtun that were from Khost but live in Pakistan for 20 or 15 years....I don't know any familie who have married a Pakistani Pashtun....
And the persianized Pashtun don't excist, we actualy Pashtunized the Tajiks and Uzbacks, if you look at there clothing there manners most of that are somewhat similaire to us. Becuase the traditional clothing of tajiks in Tajikistan is difrent than what Tajiks are wearing in Afghanistan, the same whith Uzbacks. I have a pashtun channel from PAkistan and there pashtu is half English mixed whith Urdu, and you call us persianized...-_-.

Actually, yes the other ethnicities have mixed their culture a lot with Afghan Pashtuns, for example a lot of them wear afghan traditional clothes (charmai) which actually belongs to the Pashtuns.

If you're referring to the 'Pakistani' Pashtuns who speak a Pashto that's heavily mixed with urdu and english to the point where it's incomprehensible, then yes the Afghan Pashtuns even here in Canada don't really talk to them, but the Pashtuns from say the areas in FATA and areas that are further away from the major cities, like Swat, Quetta, Waziristan, etc. usually mingle with the Afghan Pashtuns here.

[pashtanajan]

Yes but still this peopel claim Pashtun being persianized :S when the farsiban in Afghanistan are not that persian to begin whith ....

They are closer to Persians in terms of their language and culture. For example, most of them follow Nowruz, and holidays that belong to the Persian culture, while Pashtuns don't really do that. But, Tajiks are mixed, and their culture is more oriental than the Persians from Iran. But, if you go to Herat or Farah, places that are closer to the Iran border, then you honestly will not be able to distinguish the difference between the Persians from there and Iran.

And there are a lot of Pashtuns that are Persianized, and it's usually because they've grown up in an area with a lot of Tajiks or Farsizubans or their mothers are actually Tajiks etc. Usually their fathers are Pashtuns while their mothers are Farsizubans, so you can't really blame them.

[Toramana]

They are closer to Persians in terms of their language and culture. For example, most of them follow Nowruz, and holidays that belong to the Persian culture, while Pashtuns don't really do that. But, Tajiks are mixed, and their culture is more oriental than the Persians from Iran. But, if you go to Herat or Farah, places that are closer to the Iran border, then you honestly will not be able to distinguish the difference between the Persians from there and Iran.

And there are a lot of Pashtuns that are Persianized, and it's usually because they've grown up in an area with a lot of Tajiks or Farsizubans or their mothers are actually Tajiks etc. Usually their fathers are Pashtuns while their mothers are Farsizubans, so you can't really blame them.

I have heard there are many ethnic Tajaks in Khost as well. Is that true Pashthanajan?

[pashtanajan]

I have heard there are many ethnic Tajaks in Khost as well. Is that true Pashthanajan?

There obviously is a small minority of Tajiks and other ethnicities other than Pashtuns in Khost, but it is predominantly populated by Pashtuns.