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so i wanted to know something do pakistani pashtuns feel more connected to afghanistan or pakistan andwant would your reaction be if pakhtunkhwa and the rest of pashtun places came back to afghanistan?
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Pakistani Pashtuns feel connected to Pakistan, the same way Pashtuns born/raised in Canada feel connected to Canada. This has to do with education, and Pakistan is very good with instilling it's pseudo-Islamic values. However, from what I've noticed, most patriotic Pakistani Pashtuns(an Oxymoron) suffer an identity crisis, because the very label Pashtun is synonymous with Afghan. As soon as they begin researching their ethnic group, they quickly realize that they have Afghan blood running through their veins. At that point, if they deny their heritage, they are flat-out deceiving themselves. It doesn't take an educated Pukhtun long before he realizes what kind of a joke the banana republic of Pakistan is.
They don't want to join Afghanistan at this point, since Afghanistan is war-torn.Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.
A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai
For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."
The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!
-Ferishta, 1560–1620 -
Afghani To Pakistani
I feel very proud about Afghanistan because my ancestor belong from Khogyani than they spread towards Ghazni than migrated to Multan during mughal empire and bought agriculture land here and help annexed Multan province with Durrani Empire. After Pakistan came into being it gave us a new identity and great respect i am proud of that as well.
So who am i Afghan or Pakistani in any case i know myself from root to tipفرزانہ بہ گفتارم دیوانہ بہ کردارم
از بادہ شوق تو ہشیارم و مستم من
ڈاکٹرسرعلامہ محمد اقبالComment
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I don't feel connected to any nation or nationality, perhaps legally I am, but primarily out of practical concerns. Spiritually, Intellectually and Ethically, I am connected to the Earth itself and not man made structures.[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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Ethically Afghan .. A Pakistani National !!
When a Pakhtun can have Canadian Nationality than what's wrong in having a Pakistani Nationality? !!yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!
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because Pakistan sucks lol.Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View Post
Well I haven't been to Afghanistan and didn't spend much time in Pakistan so I don't know, But I don't like Pakistan.
If Pakhtunkhwa goes to Afghanistan then I wouldn't, at least our language and culture will become stronger.Comment
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Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View Post
...because you accept a British Lord traveling thousands of miles, repainting your house, telling you that you are someone else and then leaving.
If you don´t see the difference then no one can help you.The only constant is change.Comment
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actually both Shahbaz and everyone else have valid points, and in the same turn all of you are wrong for various reasons. The British, Russians and other powers carved up all of Asia to form the present Nation-States including Afghanistan, to fault a Pakistani national for identifying with that doesn't make him anymore or less than what his ancestors are. He's right if people can go to Canada and Germany and have citizenship there and be afghans, why can't the Pakistanis of Afghan origins? At the same time, Pakiistan is built on annexing the territory hereditary Afghan, to identify with it is forfeiting that truth. But then similarly we can say the same about Herat, Balkh/Mazar I Sharif and Qunduz. Afghans moved to those lands and took it as their own, should the natives of those regions thus reject Afghan identity on that account? It backfires. All of these identities backfire because they'e manufactured. Even the Pashtuns themselves never collaboratively joined together for the sake of "Afghanistan", it was first forced on them and then brainwashed into them over successive generations. In truth all of it is a waste of time; but if we're going to accept the concept of nationality, why knit pick?[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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The settling area called "Afghanistan" = "Land of Afghans" was first mentioned in the book "Tareekh-e Herat" by an Iranian historian Safi.
That book was written in 1347, so way back when no bipolar worldorder between Russia and Great Britain created "buffer states" to demarcate their spheres of interests.
Afghanistan as a country is neither a British nor a Russian construction.
It´s borders are definitly negotiated but it´s culturel, historical and linguistic uniqueness is not something that can be challenged.
And to tackle the topic of "Pashtuns settling in Balkh, Kunduz etc.":
after the Panjdeh Incident, Pashtun tribes were relocated to the north to resist any further Russian incursions because the native population there didn´t fight the Russians when Panjdeh was invaded and annexed.
Kunduz didn´t even exist back then.
It was established by Pashtun tribes.
These Pashtuns were given governmental properties and they had to irrigate them, build something out of it. They didn´t get anyone elses property or something.
The "so-called" natives of those places were displaced Usbeks, Turkmens and Tajiks theselves who had been welcomed after Bukhara and Samarqand had been annexed by Zarist Russia.
And even if your arguement of "....never collaborativly joined together..." is right about the Pashtuns, the future is bright that a cultural and linguistic homogene sociaty will come together one day in the near future.
They say:
"Everything will be good at the end.
And if it´s not good, it´s not the end yet..."
Stay tuned, RevolutionThroughReason! ;-)The only constant is change.Comment
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When you do that, your an obsticle for the survival of your indegenous culture, language, and homeland.Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View PostComment
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there was no pakistan before british and punjabi collaboration to create one. on the other hand, there was an afghanistan before foreigners had a chance to rape the land, this is even before ahmad shah baba.
babur says:
The road from Khorasān leads by way of Kandahār. It is a straight level road, and does not go through any hill-passes... In the country of Kābul there are many and various tribes. Its valleys and plains are inhabited by Tūrks, Aimāks, and Arabs. In the city and the greater part of the villages, the population consists of Tājiks*(Sarts). Many other of the villages and districts are occupied by Pashāis, Parāchis, Tājiks, Berekis, and Afghans... In the hill-country to the north-east lies Kaferistān, such as Kattor and Gebrek. To the south is Afghanistān.[17]
—Babur, 1525
as an afghan i may be biased but come onnnnnnnThere are people today who think that admitting God’s absolute greatness decreases the value and importance of humans in the creation, as if God and mankind are rivals competing in greatness and power. Meanwhile I feel that whenever our perception of God’s greatness increases, with it we become greater, because we are the creation of a great God.
Sayyid QutbComment
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that's all an anachronism, there was no actual nation called "land of afghans", there was no united national consciousness or even identity; I don't recall seeing the term Afghan Land ever used in Tareekh, I have seen it in Baburnama. However the modern concepts of Nationality, National identity where people knew themselves by a central political entity, did not exist. But it is just like anything else in Modern Pashtun Mythology, we take "Pactuye" as proof of Pashtuns, while no other corroborative evidence exists. we think we're all homogenously of the same origin and well I guess in a universal sense we are.. But even genetic evidence shows the R1a1 markers come from different routes, We can try and knit pick on whether the Uzbeks of the North came during the Bolseviks or not, but one thing is certain Most of Modern Afghanistan was not under the control of Pashtuns, the people in many other regions who inhabited priorly were not Pashtuns. The idea of Modern Nationality is a European manufacturing really.
How ironic that people are trying to identify themselves through a British concept.[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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yeah but come on, this is like saying central asia was "Turanistan", because they had Turks as the primary inhabitants, the actual construct of a nation state is well British, people keep dancing around that with tangents but it is true. This reference from Baburnama does more to hurt the cause of Afghanistan than help, most of the places referenced here are currently parts of the "Modern State" of Afghanistan but were not originally, they were themselves very distinct from Pashtun regions. It is just like Persian nationalists who speak of a "Khurasan" , which is a geographic reference than an actual State. It is simply a reference that a lot of "this type of peoplle" live in this area.Originally posted by randolph85 View Postthere was no pakistan before british and punjabi collaboration to create one. on the other hand, there was an afghanistan before foreigners had a chance to rape the land, this is even before ahmad shah baba.
babur says:
The road from Khorasān leads by way of Kandahār. It is a straight level road, and does not go through any hill-passes... In the country of Kābul there are many and various tribes. Its valleys and plains are inhabited by Tūrks, Aimāks, and Arabs. In the city and the greater part of the villages, the population consists of Tājiks*(Sarts). Many other of the villages and districts are occupied by Pashāis, Parāchis, Tājiks, Berekis, and Afghans... In the hill-country to the north-east lies Kaferistān, such as Kattor and Gebrek. To the south is Afghanistān.[17]
—Babur, 1525
as an afghan i may be biased but come onnnnnnn[QUOTE=Afghanistan2010;658085][B]He is no different [COLOR="Red"]than us[/COLOR][/B],[B]he[COLOR="Red"] blindly believes [/COLOR]in the words [COLOR="Red"]of other men[/COLOR][/B],:[/QUOTE]
2010 Admitting he's a blind believer not in God, but what other men says.Comment
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Give it a rest, the poster is trying to instigate the 50,000th discussion of this topic. Could be a parsiwaan or could be an urdoobaan. Could be an ANPite. Doesnt matter at this point and its just a waste of space to discuss. No one is changing their mind on this topic. Circumstance will push the mind to change."2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quoteComment
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I personally dont believe in countries myself, perhaps because i have lived in so many countries in my life, saudi,kenya,uae,canada, maybe that is the reason.
I feel I can pretty much live any where now and where ever I go, will be my home.Last edited by Karachi; 03-26-2012, 12:13 AM.Comment
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