Reality check,,on pashtuns of both side,PF under the influence isi and iranian agents

[randolph85]

do u got any references for this?

if these claims are true, than surely a strike by the kabulis could surely of been remedied by wholesale massacre like u are saying happened in shamali.

[Khidr]

do u got any references for this?

if these claims are true, than surely a strike by the kabulis could surely of been remedied by wholesale massacre like u are saying happened in shamali.

You don't know about these? I'm surprised.

1931 Shamali Massacre is quite infamous. But for proper references read 'Afghanistan in the Course of History Volume 2' By Ghobar. Ghobar is the prominent history of Afghanistan. You know him right? The incident is also mentioned in 'A Tribe Apart' by Barnet R Rubin. There is only 100 plus copies of this in English (original is in Farsi) and they are hard and expensive to come buy. If you want, I can mail my English copy to you and once you finish, you can return it.

Qataghaan Massacre. Also is covered extensively on Afghanistan in the Course of History, by Ghobar. Google 'Qataghaan Rebels Medal' it will take you to a site dedicated to Afghan Medals and will have show you the picture of the medal.

[randolph85]

i am aware of the fighting in the north at the time. though i will check out the books u have mentioned.

i also recommend for u

Kabul under siege: Fayz Muhammad's ... - Google Books

not for any particular reason, but just because i recently read it and found it interesting and from an unusual perspective.

my point was that, if these people had no problem massacring people just north of kabul for insubordination, then surely massacring strikers over the farsi/dari issure would of been no problem for them.

[Khidr]

i am aware of the fighting in the north at the time. though i will check out the books u have mentioned.

i also recommend for u

Kabul under siege: Fayz Muhammad's ... - Google Books

not for any particular reason, but just because i recently read it and found it interesting and from an unusual perspective.

my point was that, if these people had no problem massacring people just north of kabul for insubordination, then surely massacring strikers over the farsi/dari issure would of been no problem for them.

Randolph, the overturn of the decree was not just based on strike, but mostly the fact that none of the civil servant could communicate in Pashto in the first place, hence the bureaucracy shut down.

Furthermore, I'm sure you are well are of the difference between killing, looting, raping illiterate villagers, and 'killing' the only 500 educated literate civil servants in Kabul in 1930.


I will read this book. I was looking for it for a while now.

From what I have heard though Fayz Mohamad Khateb Hazara was anti Kalakani and a member of Amanullah's government who was bought out by Nadir Khan. Ghobar was also a member of Amanullah's Young Afghans.

However there appears to be huge discrepancies based on what I have heard between Faiy Muhamad Hazara's original Farsi book and the Russian copy that it was translated to (from which this english one was translated).

I will read this and also try to get hold of the Farsi copy to compare the alleged discrepancies.

[emkhan]

Im talking about written literature, not verbal. Written literature is very critical in perserving and advancing a language. Dont cheapen this discussion by turning this into a one side of durand vs the other side. Both sides need improvement.

Actually that was a typing mistake in my last post. i wrote urdu instead dari or farsi
actually in afghanistan, every pashtoon knows dari or farsi but here in pakistan every pashtoon does not know urdu.
so the influence of other language on pakhtoons living acrros the border is more than the pakhtoons living on this side.
i wanted to say that the current masharaans are doing nothing for the promotion of their identity and language even it is being perished.
my dear, you remember one those who dont dont identify and rectify their mistakes are perishes. if there is some weakness in your people so accept it and try your level best to rectify it. there is nothing to become stick to.

our problem is that when we dont have answer to anybody's question then we start speaking against him. anyhow think about this in depth and dont take it to your mind.

[graveyardofempires]

Salaam People, here is my ( “evil” Tajik) view on this issue in regards to Kabul, Farsi, the subordinate status of Pashto in Kabul and some of the reasons as to why this is the case.


Let me say, Farsi has not been forced upon Pashtuns in Kabul, it does not “dominate” the media, bureaucracy because Tajiks (Kabulis) forced it Pashtuns. Pashtun Kings like Zahir Shah, Ahmad Khan Abdali, etc are NOT to blame for the secondary status of Pashto in Afghanistan.


I ask you, what did you guys expect when Timor Shah, the son of Ahmad Khan Abdali, and his band moved to Kabul? Did you expect to somehow transform the cultural identity of Kabul into a Pashto/Pashtun one???


The Barikzai’s were not the first alien Kings of Kabul, nor were they the last. Kabul had seen Shah’s from the sub-continent come and rule over it, the Arabs, the Turks and then the Barikzais, all of them had to accommodate for Kabul and its identity (Farsi) and were absorbed into the culture of the city. Pashto and Pashtun was going to be no exception. You cannot expect to alter the identity of Kabul, just because a few Pashtun migrated there and declared themselves “Kings of Kabul Zameen.”


We won’t even address the ‘Farsiwanized’ identity of Ahmad Khan Abdali and his sons and the influence that has had, due to his years serving in the Safawid court.

Kabul is Pukhtun majority city and they have lived there like forever
are you trying to say that pukhtane are immigrants in kabul?
btw why are you acting as if kabul is some different country.

[graveyardofempires]

Actually that was a typing mistake in my last post. i wrote urdu instead dari or farsi
actually in afghanistan, every pashtoon knows dari or farsi but here in pakistan every pashtoon does not know urdu.
so the influence of other language on pakhtoons living acrros the border is more than the pakhtoons living on this side.
i wanted to say that the current masharaans are doing nothing for the promotion of their identity and language even it is being perished.
my dear, you remember one those who dont dont identify and rectify their mistakes are perishes. if there is some weakness in your people so accept it and try your level best to rectify it. there is nothing to become stick to.

our problem is that when we dont have answer to anybody's question then we start speaking against him. anyhow think about this in depth and dont take it to your mind.

in AFG not every pukhtun knows dari,thats again your pakistani non sense regarding AFG.in AFG we have Pukhto universities and schools all across the nation,our military ranks are in pukhto,our military commands ar ein pukhto,our national anthem is in pukhto,we even have farsiwaans with pukhto names,the governmental ranks are in pukhto,the Afghan constitutions is based in pukhtun system of jirgas. and your pukhtunkhwa doesnt even have pukhto writing,you use urdu way of writing,your governmental institutions are in english,your names of shops etc are english words written with urdu.maybe you guys are only happy that there are some demaan singing in pukhto and some punjabi bitches jumping around in the video clips.


there is mistake and its on your part for believing such non sense that in pukhtunkhwa pukhto is more preserved than AFG.I could agree with you if you said that pukhto was not used in the past in AFG but as we see pukhto is doing progress and even our non pukhtun population is learning it,the nuristanis,pashayees speak pukhto.
and is pukhto only the language or are we also talking about the culture.

[graveyardofempires]

Randolph, the overturn of the decree was not just based on strike, but mostly the fact that none of the civil servant could communicate in Pashto in the first place, hence the bureaucracy shut down.

Furthermore, I'm sure you are well are of the difference between killing, looting, raping illiterate villagers, and 'killing' the only 500 educated literate civil servants in Kabul in 1930.


I will read this book. I was looking for it for a while now.

From what I have heard though Fayz Mohamad Khateb Hazara was anti Kalakani and a member of Amanullah's government who was bought out by Nadir Khan. Ghobar was also a member of Amanullah's Young Afghans.

However there appears to be huge discrepancies based on what I have heard between Faiy Muhamad Hazara's original Farsi book and the Russian copy that it was translated to (from which this english one was translated).

I will read this and also try to get hold of the Farsi copy to compare the alleged discrepancies.

hey kido are you trying to say young Afghan/young Turk?
and why are you guys always suppporting the types of kalakani and masood?Farsiwaans used to be known for their good manners,especially kabulis,what happend to you guys?nowadays it seems that you will support sell outs and ignorant people such as kalakani.

[khushal]

If Hashim Khan, Mohd Gul Khan could, they would have. That's the whole issue. Whatever was within their means, those people did it, whatever didn't happen was because it was not politically, militarily, economically feasible.

In fact Mohd Gul Khan Mohmand and his Mangal/Zazai gang did pretty much "clean", loot, rape and burn Shamali and around 4000-5000 people 70 years before Taliban.

Let's not forget Shah Wali's campaign in Qataghaan, where he brought back a famous old Ghenghiz Khan torture technique of making people walk to death tied to a horse.

The second highest military medal was named after a massacre. LOL i.e. "Suppression of the Northern Rebels in Qataghaan Medal". I bet you even the atheist Russians didn't do that to their people.

This is all inaccurate, At the time there were many revolts in the north.
Nadir Shah had to suppress attempts to reinstate Amanullah Khan to the throne. His strategy in suppressing his opposition was to set ethnic groups against each other, mainly Pashtuns versus Tajiks. This led to many battles that brought much destruction to the north but there were no massacres. These stories are made by Tajik nationalists.

If you read the about the Taliban by wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
They talk more about how Ahmed Shaw Moasood was a hero but in reality this is the real Ahmed Shah Masood
http://www.rawa.org/massoud_ussr.htm
Again Tajik nationalists creating stories about the coward.
Mr. khidr you talk about the Massacres by the Taliban, Why are you not speaking about the Massacres of Pashtuns by your Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara heros because most mass graves they have found so far are of pashtuns. It is not in pashtun culture to committ attrocities and mass murders that you speak of

[khushal]

Actually that was a typing mistake in my last post. i wrote urdu instead dari or farsi
actually in afghanistan, every pashtoon knows dari or farsi but here in pakistan every pashtoon does not know urdu.
so the influence of other language on pakhtoons living acrros the border is more than the pakhtoons living on this side.
i wanted to say that the current masharaans are doing nothing for the promotion of their identity and language even it is being perished.
my dear, you remember one those who dont dont identify and rectify their mistakes are perishes. if there is some weakness in your people so accept it and try your level best to rectify it. there is nothing to become stick to.

our problem is that when we dont have answer to anybody's question then we start speaking against him. anyhow think about this in depth and dont take it to your mind.

Its not just a typing mistake, your whole brainwashed pakistani education was a mistake. It is better if you stay quiet because all doubt has now been removed from labeling you as incompetent, you have revealed too much evidence of it.

Farsibans in pashun areas are obligated to speak pashto and pashtuns in farsiban areas are obligated to speak farsi. Not all farsiban know pashto and not all pashtuns know farsi.
Farsi's advancement is contributed to its rich literature, not because afghan leaders have done nothing to advance pashto. Even your Precious Urdu is 70% farsi. As Kidre has said Pashtun leaders have tried to force pashto on the non-pashto speakers which is the wrong approach. Pashto literature has to be created in large volume and every subject possible.

Now go and invest some time in a real education, unlearn the stupidity that the pakistani educational system has brainwashed you with. Before you say anything you learned in pakistan, research it, so we can remove the label you have been given.

[emkhan]

you are more proud on your education. but proud people often fall.
and i am talking about the current leaders. they are doing nothing. and you are giving wrong data about the farsi speakers in afghanistan. whenever i meet any pashtoon from afghanistan he must be speaking farsi.
farsi is the second language of every pashtoon in afghanistan. you come to pakistan, very few pashtoons can speak urdu. only those who live in the cities.
i would advise you, please dont lie about your people but accept your mistake and try to rectify it.
you are again just criticising pakistanis. its like you are hitting your head with the wall. hehehe.... dear, it will give you nothing but you should rectify your ownself.
i dont want to speak anything agianst the leaders of afghanistan because they are my brothers... but i would say just one thing that when you are united and determined no country can interfere in your internal matters. but if you are weak and invite others like india and russia, it means you are making it a battle field for the whole world.
be realistic

[graveyardofempires]

you are more proud on your education. but proud people often fall.
and i am talking about the current leaders. they are doing nothing. and you are giving wrong data about the farsi speakers in afghanistan. whenever i meet any pashtoon from afghanistan he must be speaking farsi.
farsi is the second language of every pashtoon in afghanistan. you come to pakistan, very few pashtoons can speak urdu. only those who live in the cities.
i would advise you, please dont lie about your people but accept your mistake and try to rectify it.
you are again just criticising pakistanis. its like you are hitting your head with the wall. hehehe.... dear, it will give you nothing but you should rectify your ownself.
i dont want to speak anything agianst the leaders of afghanistan because they are my brothers... but i would say just one thing that when you are united and determined no country can interfere in your internal matters. but if you are weak and invite others like india and russia, it means you are making it a battle field for the whole world.
be realistic

so we shouldnt criticise pakistan?

you are either with durrand line or you are against the durrand line.

[emkhan]

so we shouldnt criticise pakistan?

you are either with durrand line or you are against the durrand line.

come on dear.... be mature.
if you have complaint with the policies of the pakistani govt so you should criticize the govt of pakistan and the pakistan because there are so many people living in the country who are not in support of the govt policies, i myself against the policies of govt regarding afghan war and so many others. it does not mean i should criticize my country, i cant speak against my country because i have my family there, i have my property there, i earn there, my identity is my pakistan. i will never speak against my country what i do is to criticize the policies of the govt.
you know there is so much influence of america in our internal and external policies but i dont always bark on america why because our own rulers are responsible for that. my rulers have become slaves of the united states.
so you should be realistic. i just suggest you not to always criticize others, it will never make anything good for you until you look at yourself and rectify yourself and remove all the weaknesses so that pakistan or others could not get the opporunity to interfere in your personal matters.
in simple words, if there was no russia in afghanistan believe me there would be no pakistan in afghanistan, if there was no india in afghanistan believe me there would be no pakistan in afghanistan.
always be realistic and dont be emmotional but try to understand what the other person wants to deliver the message.

[graveyardofempires]

come on dear.... be mature.
if you have complaint with the policies of the pakistani govt so you should criticize the govt of pakistan and the pakistan because there are so many people living in the country who are not in support of the govt policies, i myself against the policies of govt regarding afghan war and so many others. it does not mean i should criticize my country, i cant speak against my country because i have my family there, i have my property there, i earn there, my identity is my pakistan. i will never speak against my country what i do is to criticize the policies of the govt.
you know there is so much influence of america in our internal and external policies but i dont always bark on america why because our own rulers are responsible for that. my rulers have become slaves of the united states.
so you should be realistic. i just suggest you not to always criticize others, it will never make anything good for you until you look at yourself and rectify yourself and remove all the weaknesses so that pakistan or others could not get the opporunity to interfere in your personal matters.
in simple words, if there was no russia in afghanistan believe me there would be no pakistan in afghanistan, if there was no india in afghanistan believe me there would be no pakistan in afghanistan.
always be realistic and dont be emmotional but try to understand what the other person wants to deliver the message.

you are talking a whole bunch of mambo jumbo there bro.
i could reply to every sentence wrote but than again its not worth it cuz its typical pakistani bias.for example pakistanis think they actually defeated the russian and now they are so important they can have political influence in AFG.First you need to learn the meaning of being realistic than come back talk.

[emkhan]

hehehehe so who else defeated them. america gave them weapons, pakistanis and afghanis were used as man force and also intelligence support was given by the pakistan intelligencia.
but i wonder whats india doing in afghanistan now ? why dont you kick them off afghanistan ?