Reality check,,on pashtuns of both side,PF under the influence isi and iranian agents

[emkhan]

but dear its not just pulling the string... the pashtun identity and language is being perished in different ways. the beaurocracy and policy making matters alot.

[khushal]

but dear its not just pulling the string... the pashtun identity and language is being perished in different ways. the beaurocracy and policy making matters alot.

True that beaurocracy and policy is important but you have to realize that in peshawar, the private schools all teach in urdu and english because the consumers demand it. If you look at the private schools in kabul, its now in dari and english because the customers demand it. What I am saying is you must figure out a way for the people to demand pashto. My cousins didnt learn dari in kabul and urdu and english in peshawar because they hate pashto, its because they feel thats whats needed to get ahead in life, to have a better quality of life. If I go to kabul or peshawar and I see alot of literature in pashto and all the signs everywhere in pashto, thats going to force me to learn how to read and write pashto. You must bring literature to the population so they can have interest in learning what the literature is saying.

[emkhan]

my dear, peshawar is a city where 40% of the people are hindko speakers or urdu speakers so some people have to speak urdu but not all but when you go out of the city you will not find any pashtoon speaking urdu. thats not true. but if you see dari or farsi has got a leading language position in the media, offices and even the common public.... im not blaming the common people for that i even blame all those who are taking the names of pashtoons and do not do anything for their language and their adentity. they just love to blame other day and night. this has become their food for thought. they should do something practical for their people.

[graveyardofempires]

my dear, peshawar is a city where 40% of the people are hindko speakers or urdu speakers so some people have to speak urdu but not all but when you go out of the city you will not find any pashtoon speaking urdu. thats not true. but if you see dari or farsi has got a leading language position in the media, offices and even the common public.... im not blaming the common people for that i even blame all those who are taking the names of pashtoons and do not do anything for their language and their adentity. they just love to blame other day and night. this has become their food for thought. they should do something practical for their people.

are you saying that Pukhto is more preserved in Pukhtunkhwa than Afghanistan?

[khushal]

Im talking about written literature, not verbal. Written literature is very critical in perserving and advancing a language. Dont cheapen this discussion by turning this into a one side of durand vs the other side. Both sides need improvement.

[emkhan]

are you saying that Pukhto is more preserved in Pukhtunkhwa than Afghanistan?

i think yes because almost every pashtoon in afghanistan knows urdu but here very few people speak correct urdu.

[Nokia_Apridy]

Ka Dasey Wi Gandol saib nu ...

BISMALLAH ba da Kobal na kawo MAshrani ba Kandhor la zi

Surud (Anthem) ba daga wi laka chay Woos da....

da YU QATIL LEKALAY Da..........Awo KAruna kawal

Bya ta racist shay....zmung Badnasebu ghunday...

[graveyardofempires]

i think yes because almost every pashtoon in afghanistan knows urdu but here very few people speak correct urdu.

thats not true

[khushal]

GOE, emkhan is is disconnected from reality. Most of his posts are foolish at best. Ask him what color the sky is in his world.

[Khidr]

Salaam People, here is my ( “evil” Tajik) view on this issue in regards to Kabul, Farsi, the subordinate status of Pashto in Kabul and some of the reasons as to why this is the case.


Let me say, Farsi has not been forced upon Pashtuns in Kabul, it does not “dominate” the media, bureaucracy because Tajiks (Kabulis) forced it Pashtuns. Pashtun Kings like Zahir Shah, Ahmad Khan Abdali, etc are NOT to blame for the secondary status of Pashto in Afghanistan.


I ask you, what did you guys expect when Timor Shah, the son of Ahmad Khan Abdali, and his band moved to Kabul? Did you expect to somehow transform the cultural identity of Kabul into a Pashto/Pashtun one???


The Barikzai’s were not the first alien Kings of Kabul, nor were they the last. Kabul had seen Shah’s from the sub-continent come and rule over it, the Arabs, the Turks and then the Barikzais, all of them had to accommodate for Kabul and its identity (Farsi) and were absorbed into the culture of the city. Pashto and Pashtun was going to be no exception. You cannot expect to alter the identity of Kabul, just because a few Pashtun migrated there and declared themselves “Kings of Kabul Zameen.”


We won’t even address the ‘Farsiwanized’ identity of Ahmad Khan Abdali and his sons and the influence that has had, due to his years serving in the Safawid court.

[Khidr]

As far as the assertion that “Pashtun Kings didn’t do anything for Pashto” is concerned, well that’s half-true. Pashtun Kings, from Nadir Khan onwards did try to “promote” Pashto but went about it the wrong way which had adverse consequences for Pashto and perceptions Pashtun Culture by non-Pashto speakers of Afghanistan.

Nadir Khan’s brother, Hashim in 1931, issued an infamous royal decree whereby Pashto was declared as the sole official language of the state and ordered all government bureaucracy to take place in Pashto, the cities burocracy literal shut down and many Kabulis vehemently protested...2 months later, the decree was revoked. This was the first of many attempts over the next half century in the failed effort of “Pashtunization of Afghanistan” which included name changing of districts, name changing of Farsi to Dari in 1967, Pashtun resettlement/stealing in/of fertile and strategic lands of the north and Pashto only titles for governmental institutions.

People like Mohd Gul Khan Mohmand gave a distorted and fascist view of Pashtuns and Pashto. On the other hand, from a scholarly and literary point of view, people like Abdul Hai Habibi n his “Puta Khazana” discovery added a comical dimension to this and made Kabulis see Pashto Adabiyat as an object of ridicule.

My point is, Pashto would have been better served through genuine development/promotion of the Pashto language as opposed to trying to force it down people's throat. I’m just beginning to read the translations of Ghani Khan in English and I ask why wasn’t I made aware of his poetry earlier? Pashto would have been better served and promoted as a language through putting on display the works of Ghani Khan or Rahman Khan to non-Pashto speakers.

No amount of chauvinistic royal decrees or land grabbing or national anthems, chest thumping will ever interest me in Pashto (to the contrary, it will have the opposite effect) but a great poet like Ghani has captured my curiosity and desire to one day maybe learn Pashto so I can understand his work in it’s pure form.

Wasalaam.

[randolph85]

Salaam People, here is my ( “evil” Tajik) view on this issue in regards to Kabul, Farsi, the subordinate status of Pashto in Kabul and some of the reasons as to why this is the case.


Let me say, Farsi has not been forced upon Pashtuns in Kabul, it does not “dominate” the media, bureaucracy because Tajiks (Kabulis) forced it Pashtuns. Pashtun Kings like Zahir Shah, Ahmad Khan Abdali, etc are NOT to blame for the secondary status of Pashto in Afghanistan.


I ask you, what did you guys expect when Timor Shah, the son of Ahmad Khan Abdali, and his band moved to Kabul? Did you expect to somehow transform the cultural identity of Kabul into a Pashto/Pashtun one???


The Barikzai’s were not the first alien Kings of Kabul, nor were they the last. Kabul had seen Shah’s from the sub-continent come and rule over it, the Arabs, the Turks and then the Barikzais, all of them had to accommodate for Kabul and its identity (Farsi) and were absorbed into the culture of the city. Pashto and Pashtun was going to be no exception. You cannot expect to alter the identity of Kabul, just because a few Pashtun migrated there and declared themselves “Kings of Kabul Zameen.”


We won’t even address the ‘Farsiwanized’ identity of Ahmad Khan Abdali and his sons and the influence that has had, due to his years serving in the Safawid court.

u assume that pashtuns were all united in destroying the identity of the people of kabul and failed because farsiwans and their culture are very strong. fact is that farsi has a long rich history and no one had the intent of replacing it. this is the victimized story u get from forums like tajikam, along with posters calling for the deaths of every pashtun man, woman and child.

if pashtuns were out to destroy a culture, they could of but they didnt because why would they? look at how russians transformed the culture of the people of tajikistan and uzbekistan in just a couple of generations. russian became the main language, people adopted russianized names. this is after 2000 yrs of persian culture which was wiped out in a couple generations by a garbage bottom feeding russian culture. if pashtuns wanted to impose their will on tajiks, like the russians did north of the border, everyone would be speaking pashto and named mirwais. but this isnt the case obviously.

[Khidr]

I'm not saying Pashtuns are evil and were united to destroy Farsi. Some of the greatest contributors to Farsi were Pashtuns like Nainawaz and Ahmad Zahir and many others. Never did I say or imply what you accuse me of. If you re-read, you will see I'm talking about certain prominent individuals in the governments of the past (and present).

You cannot deny the Pashtunization of Afghanistan policy? It's more than a phrase. I listed specific examples.

Where I disagree with you is this, I believe if those individuals could destroy Farsi, there is no reason to assume they would not have. What they could get away with, they did. Like name change of ancient districts to Pashto, resettlement and stealing of land in North and name change of Farsi to Dari.

Had the 1931 decree not completely shut down the Kabul bureaucracy, there is no reason that Hashim Khan would have overturned the decree 2 months later, is there?

Labeling me a 'Setami' who is repeating racists from tajikam, is a dishonest ad hominem on your part against me.

[randolph85]

the pashtunization policy was done in a time when nation states were arising and each nation were trying to establish a sole identity for itself, for better or worse.

this was done by mostly clean shaven men in suits, not bearded pashtuns in lungees. this is why they crumbled by any shut down in kabuls bureaucracy when any other kingdom at the time would of slaughtered everyone and just replaced these people.

[Khidr]

the pashtunization policy was done in a time when nation states were arising and each nation were trying to establish a sole identity for itself, for better or worse.

this was done by mostly clean shaven men in suits, not bearded pashtuns in lungees. this is why they crumbled by any shut down in kabuls bureaucracy when any other kingdom at the time would of slaughtered everyone and just replaced these people.

If Hashim Khan, Mohd Gul Khan could, they would have. That's the whole issue. Whatever was within their means, those people did it, whatever didn't happen was because it was not politically, militarily, economically feasible.

In fact Mohd Gul Khan Mohmand and his Mangal/Zazai gang did pretty much "clean", loot, rape and burn Shamali and around 4000-5000 people 70 years before Taliban.

Let's not forget Shah Wali's campaign in Qataghaan, where he brought back a famous old Ghenghiz Khan torture technique of making people walk to death tied to a horse.

The second highest military medal was named after a massacre. LOL i.e. "Suppression of the Northern Rebels in Qataghaan Medal". I bet you even the atheist Russians didn't do that to their people.