Are Muslim women in the West averse to going back to Pakistan/Afghanistan?

[Elite Pakhtun]

What women want and need from a relationship is love and stability. They are biologically programmed to seek those things so that the can settle and bare children.

It is therefore counterintuitive to go and spend time in a highly unstable, violent and dangerous place. Afghanistan is a real hellhole and for women it's unbearable to live there. Pakistan is a little better but it is still one of the worst places to live in the whol world.

Why would anyone want to move back and live there?

If there is a specific reason, like providing aid and assistance or education, the. People may want to go back and live there. But when you don't have any such goals and objectives then there is absolutely no reason to go back right now.

Well if there's a move back, there will almost always be a reason. The reason could be as simple as got a nice job, want to raise kids there, we're going back... or something else like retiring there. Many Muslim girls (Pak/Afg) are just against the very idea/possibility. It's weird.

As for Pak/Afg being hellholes... sure. But how much does that really effect anyone of us living in the west that'll move back? We know the locale, we probably have at least some family there. Yeah, we have to be very careful, but if we know things a little bit... Most of the hellhole aspect is avoided.

What is there for a woman to do in places like Afghanistan or Pakistan? Who wants to be locked up and have 5 or 8 years of their life wasted and be imprisoned willfully. Women who have been raised in the west have put themselves through the trouble of getting an education. There is no pointing of wasting one's life at that point unless there is a good reason behind it and your partner is not the type that would take advantage of the vulnerable position you would be placed in. Men who claim women with education from the west are not worth marrying, are the men who have trouble with not being fair to their partners on places like Afghanistan or Pakistan.

I don't follow you. What's so willfully imprisoning about it? What's your idea of fair? Nothing wrong with an education, it's even encouraged. Are you saying they'll be bored? Please elaborate.

I think you're not understanding, or rather, you're jumping to a conclusion too quickly. There's nothing to say that going back is guaranteed, but it's likely at some point. Now does the girl think that's code for "we're definitely going back"? Maybe. If that's what you're alluding to... that might make sense. If not, then it's just a little unusual that the possibility of going back is such a problem for a Muslim girl in the west.


The other thing is, the girls doing the complaining are usually doing something basic like nursing, or marketing. I was told of a girl who said she can't go back because she's super career oriented and doesn't want to leave her career etc (she's a nurse)... so my buddy asked what exactly is the career progress in nurse-land. Apparently the next step up (a big step, it seems) is "nurse practitioner". They get their own clients or something. I laughed, because there are professions far far more demanding, challenging, rewarding, punishing if you **** up, and did I mention far more challenging than this "career ladder" of a nurse. Don't get me wrong, a nurse is a fine job, I think. It probably is. Ahh... I'm sure it is. But there are far tougher fields, with greatly varying career progress.

Anyhow, I digress... In a nutshell... I just want to know what girls raised in the west think of moving back, even if it's for really ideal reasons, like retirement, or a project that needs to be done in Pakistan, etc. My buddy says he's experienced girls only ever being averse to it. I'm trying to understand why. Most of the time they'll spend will be at home anyways. Oops... did I say that? But it's true though... either home or some place for work.

[Baserka]

Your "friend" is either a sore loser who is exaggerating the amount of women he has come across who don't want to go back home for a visit or he has something pretty bad going on with him that women use that lame excuse to get rid of him for good. Practically speaking, people who are serious about getting married don't come up with imaginary future conflicts to disagree about.
Don't forget to tell your "friend" that people don't have to be attractive to have self respect or aspirations in life. A person who doesn't understand something basic as that, does not deserve a partner following him from one continent to other.

[Baserka]

Well that was quick. I wonder who you are. I actually thought you were someone new. I should've figured though. This site has like 4 people.

How do you change the font like that? I want to use black. Go back to your blue color. Or use pink instead. You would look good in pink.

FYI, he's not exaggerating. The girls were hit and miss. Some got rid of him, others gave their numbers out. Some even went on a few dates. Why else would he know what a nurse practitioner is? To my knowledge though, these were all with the hopes of something serious.

The girls actually ask "are you planning to go back" themselves. Usually when they find out my friend has lived in more than 1 country.
Smilies

yes I know what a nurse practitioner is because I am one. If you are suggesting that I have been on a date with you or your "friend" then I would like to clarify the fact that such has not happened nor will it, any time in future.
If your "friend" wants to marry someone who is okay with going on a date with him before figuring out whether she is interested in being married to him or not and then figure they are not compatiable because she never wants to visit Afghanistan or Pakistan, he should stick with white girls. I never understood people who insist on riding in two boats at the same time. You want a wife that's okay with going on dates with random men but also one that can go to a third world country and live out the life of a housemaid in a society that is oppressive to women.. why don't you add a couple of wings on her back too while you are at it.
Basically, your "friend" is not realistic enough about what he wants so he ends up meeting other miserably confused individuals.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Your "friend" is either a sore loser who is exaggerating the amount of women he has come across who don't want to go back home for a visit or he has something pretty bad going on with him that women use that lame excuse to get rid of him for good. Practically speaking, people who are serious about getting married don't come up with imaginary future conflicts to disagree about.

Oh hi DZJ. What's a baserka? Also... I like this font and color. Get a different one. I want to take this. You would look good in a pink font.

Don't forget to tell your "friend" that people don't have to be attractive to have self respect or aspirations in life. A person who doesn't understand something basic as that, does not deserve a partner following him from one continent to other.

How is self respect discredited by being his partner? Aspirations... look, this is actually a true story (might have made up the "Friend" part, as you've guessed), so as far as the specific person "he's" talking about is concerned... didn't look like she had much more aspirations other than nurse practitioner. Not sure what the next step is beyond that (supervisor nurse practitioner? nurse god?). But yes, she may have to make a choice between career and family/husband. If she's not prepared for that choice, fair enough. That's her right. Nobody is forcing anything on her. She's free to choose what she wants.

That said, look, a number of months ago this friend has been on a date with a girl who did some sort of research thing in some neurosciences thing. He wasn't interested in her, so he dumped her after 2 dates (real dates ie eat food, movies etc... not... you know...). But this person who was basically doing some level of research herself said that she's willing to leave her job if needed to take care of kids. So it's up to the person. If the person doesn't want to do it, that's their choice.

yes I know what a nurse practitioner is because I am one. If you are suggesting that I have been on a date with you or your "friend" then I would like to clarify the fact that such has not happened nor will it, any time in future.

LOL... Whaaaattttt??? Calm down, please. Just breathe, and think before you type. This is not in reference to you.

But I didn't know you were a nurse practitioner. That wasn't even a veiled guess, this is actually a true story about someone else recently encountered (nothing serious happening... the paranoia by her about going back kinda turned him off). Hey though, congrats. I was told by this person that apparently there's some further schooling involved in getting to nurse practitioner, so it sounds like it's an arduous path. Good for you. She was merely a registered nurse.

*shrug* this is stuff that I don't know about.

If your "friend" wants to marry someone who is okay with going on a date with him before figuring out whether she is interested in being married to him or not and then figure they are not compatiable because she never wants to visit Afghanistan or Pakistan, he should stick with white girls.

OMG... facepalm. I don't know how many dates he went on. For all I know they could've spoken, he found out she's not willing to travel outside of the Toronto area, and he just ignored her after that.

I never understood people who insist on riding in two boats at the same time. You want a wife that's okay with going on dates with random men

Dates here does not mean what you're thinking. They're just meeting up for a movie or coffee or something. And no... dates with random men? Hell no. Unless you're referring to my friend as a random man.

but also one that can go to a third world country and live out the life of a housemaid in a society that is oppressive to women.. why don't you add a couple of wings on her back too while you are at it.
Basically, your "friend" is not realistic enough about what he wants so he ends up meeting other miserably confused individuals.

Could you please elaborate here? What do you mean live the life of a housemaid? To a certain extent, he is looking for someone who does have the ability to cook (maybe cleaning can be taken care of by a maid or something...), and do more work with taking care of the kids etc. But there's nothing stopping career, or whatever else she wants to do. It's just a question of geographical mobility tbh.. and it's surprising how many that are born and raised, in North America, refuse to go back.

It may be a comfort thing, and a convenience thing. Pakistan can be very inconvenient. You don't have easy access to everything, guaranteed clean water, guaranteed hot water......... electricity

[Baserka]

So far I have tried my very best not to comment on anything that I know of you "friend" from outside of this forum or thread. And as a person of a sound mind and considerably decent character, I would like for it to remain that way. But piss me off a little more and things might change. I don't need to remind you of that, do I??

I must confess, I did not get through your second paragraph. I really zone out when I come across that level of bull****.

[Elite Pakhtun]

*sigh* You're the one who made it about you. You assumed that it was about you because the word "nurse" was mentioned. Half the chicks you meet are nurses. There's also marketers, a few teachers, paralegals etc.

This phenomena is very common. I've encountered it years ago, as well as recently. Muslim girls raised in the West can be generally very averse to the idea of going back.

[Baserka]

No they are not. Even if they are, knowing I was one too, how dare you even suggest that a nurse practitioner lacks ambition in life?? One does not need to have a phd in order not to want to end up being married with a conceited dumb **** for the rest of her life.
And how come these women that your "friend" is talking about were not ugly when he approached them in the first place?? Why did they become so unattractive only after he found out that they were not interested in him?? Your "friend" has a lot in common with you. No wonder you are seeking insight here rather than providing it to him on your own.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Isn't there Ijma that living in non muslim lands for other than dawah is impermissible?

That's true. But the world is no longer divided into Darul Islam and Darul Kufr. Islamic countries don't exist because most countries are governed by in-Islamic law.

People don't have the option to go and live safely among fellow Muslims. In fact, you are probably safer in a non-Muslim country.

The rules in Islam are still the same. But our reality isn't.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

I wasn't expecting that from you. How are Afghanistan and Pakistan 'hellholes' and worst places to live? And what about Afghanistan makes it 'unbearable' for women to live there?

Crime, corruption, lack of security and basic needs in most parts of the country. Only in major cities, rich families are well off. Vast majority of the people live in horrible circumstances.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Also if you want your kids to speak Pashto, you must not absolutely not marry a western raised pashtana, forget your kids ever speaking Pashto.

Best thing to do is Marry back home but don't bring her over, or just move back, accumulate some wealth whilst still single so you can start some business once you go back.

Importing brides is probably the most stupid thing ever. It costs money and it makes life miserable for women.

Believing that all women in the West are bad and not good enough says allot about the men who think like this.

[Elite Pakhtun]

No they are not. Even if they are, knowing I was one too, how dare you even suggest that a nurse practitioner lacks ambition in life?? One does not need to have a phd in order not to want to end up being married with a conceited dumb **** for the rest of her life.
And how come these women that your "friend" is talking about were not ugly when he approached them in the first place?? Why did they become so unattractive only after he found out that they were not interested in him?? Your "friend" has a lot in common with you. No wonder you are seeking insight here rather than providing it to him on your own.

Its not that nursing was being disparaged, it's that, one is more difficult than the other... especially when it comes to ambition and career progress. I brought this up because someone said they're very career oriented, in the nurse field, whereas my buddy never mentioned how career oriented he is or isn't (very career oriented). He thought it was an excuse to avoid going to pak ever. No implications of lacking ambition.

The girls weren't ugly. They just had thought they were far prettier than what they were asking for in exchange. It's a bit relative.

[Baserka]

Because a ****ty personality cancels everything. Your profession is your profession, it's not who you are. One does not marry a profession. If at age almost 45 you don't understand that, you don't get to whine about not being successful in your pursuit of finding an appropriate life partner for yourself.
Good night.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The purpose of marriage is to find peace, tranquility, love and care. That environment is suitable for procreation. The purpose of marriage is not sex or just procreation. Both parties need to benefit and become satisfied and improve their lives.

Women are not commodities and they are not more vulnerable to negative influences of living in the West. In fact, men are probably more likely to have sexually transmitted diseases and all other types of filth. Because men from Muslim families are more likely to go astray during their youth than women.

People love to talk s"it about women and degrade women as if all Muslima's in the West are stupid and dirty.

if you think ill of all women then your mother and your sisters are probably prostitutes. If they are not, then you are probably insane. Because normal people don't do that.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Because a ****ty personality cancels everything. Your profession is your profession, it's not who you are. One does not marry a profession. If at age almost 45 you don't understand that, you don't get to whine about not being successful in your pursuit of finding an appropriate life partner for yourself.
Good night.

?

I'm 31. I swear I'm not iblis.

[Charsi Malang]

security is part of a high standard of living.

the avarage person in the west is probably as rich or richer than richest pakistani and afghan. the rich afghans and pakis live good lives, even in pakistan/afgh.

No way. There is no way the average person living in the West is richer or as rich as the richest Pakistanis/Afghans.