Support shuttlecock burqa

[roadrunner]

^ I'll tell you in a bit...I'm busy right now I'm reading my holy Bhagvad Gita.

I've noticed this desperation on some of these so called pashtuns on here also. (I would disagree some here have any Pashtun traits)

If you don't agree with them, you're either

a) Homosexual
b) Shia
c) Hindu
d) Pakistani
e) non Muslim.

If you get accused of one of those, it is because they can't debate with you.

So you must be saying something correct.

[roadrunner]

This is what I believe the traditional dress of Afghan women is

Next door to China in Afghanistan, women covered because of the climate, as was the case in varying forms throughout the world, whether heavy fur coats, hats and gloves, or gossamer sarongs. Afghan women did not, however, veil their faces like the Chinese, nor the Arabs to the West - who wore veils for practical reasons and to fend off blistering desert sandstorms.

http://www.islamdaily.org/en/islam/8...-suspicion.htm

[Zayam]

Catya sher i found the the bottom part of the burqa i was wearing in my pic[ATTACH]3168[/ATTACH], couldnt find the top so i drew a rough sketch its like the russians nuns but with 3 layers of veils attached to it to throw over the face.[ATTACH]3169[/ATTACH].

Dearest-

Do you only wear it in Afghanistan, or do you wear it in the UK as well?

Zayam

[ScimitarXEdge]

I didnt say it was cultural. It comes from an interpretation of religion (which I don't think is correct).

I'm in two minds about Burkhas and Niqabs. I don't really care if they're allowed to wear them, or if they're banned. Sometimes they do more harm than good but it depends on the society they are present in.

In any case women don't seem to defend it with any vigour.

When it comes to harm; I think there is a potential harm that comes with wearing a burqa, or being locked up inside the house habitually.

our skin produces vitamin D and it only does so through photosynthesis, so the lack of contact to sunlight can be severe and cause severe bone density problems, osteoperosis and anemia and also contribute to low birthweight in children during infancy.

so mandating burqa is definitely wrong, and if people practice the burqa willingly they should take careful consideration and acommodation of health complications which could arise if they dont supplement or find alternatives for reduced sun exposure.

My debate with you is the claim, baseless if I may add that burqa is not represented within Pashtun culture and hasn't been, we have found that it's been amongst Pashtuns for centuries, if something is centuries old it's safe to say it's within the culture.

[ScimitarXEdge]

This is what I believe the traditional dress of Afghan women is

Next door to China in Afghanistan, women covered because of the climate, as was the case in varying forms throughout the world, whether heavy fur coats, hats and gloves, or gossamer sarongs. Afghan women did not, however, veil their faces like the Chinese, nor the Arabs to the West - who wore veils for practical reasons and to fend off blistering desert sandstorms.

http://www.islamdaily.org/en/islam/8...-suspicion.htm

and what evidence do you have that provides historical proof of the claim?

[kakargirl]

zayam sister ,i wear the black one i posted in uk only , in afghanistaan i wear this in a white ..

[kakargirl]

and what evidence do you have that provides historical proof of the claim?

he has none at all.

[kakargirl]

roadrunner what ever you are and what ever you believe,non of your thoughts are anything to do with being pashtun either, looks to me as if your another promoter of western culture,and the women i know from kandahar and helmand support the chadri , actually the women talk about a woman not wearing it properly , i dont know nothing about your country though india/pakistan so lets just leave it at that shall we long live CHADRI.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Roadrunner, if you consider Waziristan a reasonably isolated representative of Pashtun culture, I can give anecdote. Admittedly, I have not studied the subject enough regarding the origins of the burqaa or veil in traditional Pashtun culture. My father in law is the grandson of one of the Yargu Khel Maliks that fought the British. He told me that the current incarnation of the burqaa itself was not a regular part of Waziri life, but that they covered their face in a different way. He said that the Waziri women carried with them these long black thick cloth type materials. When a non household male would encounter them on the walk ways, etc, they would actually move to the edge of the walkway and quickly hoist that cloth over their face (their heads were already covered). In the poorer Wazir families it was not uncommon to see women contributing in the day to day household or outside work and this is why this custom originally was there. In the 1960s this gave way to the black burqaa that the Wazir women now don. But the point is that there was an actual physical act of veiling.

[roadrunner]

When it comes to harm; I think there is a potential harm that comes with wearing a burqa, or being locked up inside the house habitually.

our skin produces vitamin D and it only does so through photosynthesis, so the lack of contact to sunlight can be severe and cause severe bone density problems, osteoperosis and anemia and also contribute to low birthweight in children during infancy.

so mandating burqa is definitely wrong, and if people practice the burqa willingly they should take careful consideration and acommodation of health complications which could arise if they dont supplement or find alternatives for reduced sun exposure.

My debate with you is the claim, baseless if I may add that burqa is not represented within Pashtun culture and hasn't been, we have found that it's been amongst Pashtuns for centuries, if something is centuries old it's safe to say it's within the culture.

No. I find this untrue.

Traditional is something that is handed down from one generation to the next.

For something to be traditional it would have to have existed from the earliest known times, or for a substantial time that it can be considered as evolved from the local environment.

The Burkha has at most been part of Pashtun culture for 2 or 3 centuries.

We know for a fact that it was not present up until Islam was introduced in the 11th century, and for a lot of time after that (my personal guess is it became popularized in the 1700s.

So it cannot be considered a Pashtun tradition because it did not evolve in Pashtun lands. It evolved in sandy, desert lands.

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner, if you consider Waziristan a reasonably isolated representative of Pashtun culture, I can give anecdote. Admittedly, I have not studied the subject enough regarding the origins of the burqaa or veil in traditional Pashtun culture. My father in law is the grandson of one of the Yargu Khel Maliks that fought the British. He told me that the current incarnation of the burqaa itself was not a regular part of Waziri life, but that they covered their face in a different way. He said that the Waziri women carried with them these long black thick cloth type materials. When a non household male would encounter them on the walk ways, etc, they would actually move to the edge of the walkway and quickly hoist that cloth over their face (their heads were already covered). In the poorer Wazir families it was not uncommon to see women contributing in the day to day household or outside work and this is why this custom originally was there. In the 1960s this gave way to the black burqaa that the Wazir women now don. But the point is that there was an actual physical act of veiling.

Good stuff. And I don't deny any of this. I just happen to know that the veil is not older than a few centuries and did not evolve in Pashtun lands.

Therefore I cannot consider it a part of Pashtun culture. Pashtun women had their own culture which became usurped over time.

[kakargirl]

No. I find this untrue.

Traditional is something that is handed down from one generation to the next.

For something to be traditional it would have to have existed from the earliest known times, or for a substantial time that it can be considered as evolved from the local environment.

The Burkha has at most been part of Pashtun culture for 2 or 3 centuries.

We know for a fact that it was not present up until Islam was introduced in the 11th century, and for a lot of time after that (my personal guess is it became popularized in the 1700s.

So it cannot be considered a Pashtun tradition because it did not evolve in Pashtun lands. It evolved in sandy, desert lands.

any tradition can be started and passed on now let me tell you something i found out zoroastrianism was followed by pashtuns before islam apparently even in that it says the women drew veils over themselfsexplain that.

[kakargirl]

Good stuff. And I don't deny any of this. I just happen to know that the veil is not older than a few centuries and did not evolve in Pashtun lands.

Therefore I cannot consider it a part of Pashtun culture. Pashtun women had their own culture which became usurped over time.

See you just said it yourself you consider it you assume it you have no solid concrete proof at all, this is what you call a very weak debate with out any foundation, if it were in a court lol the case would get thrown out .

[roadrunner]

any tradition can be started and passed on now let me tell you something i found out zoroastrianism was followed by pashtuns before islam apparently even in that it says the women drew veils over themselfsexplain that.

Then it is not an indigenous tradition. It is a foreign tradition that has been forced onto the people in some way (I suspect warfare was the driving factor in this case).

For it to be a Pashtun tradition, it needs to be an indigenous tradition. This is not.

Zoroastrianism wasn't followed by the Pashtuns, but there was some technicality that caused some overlap. Anyway, you have made the connection, I shall explain it.

Zoroastrianism was practised in Persia (Iran). An Iranian tradition is for the women to wear face veils, which was being done even before Zoroastrianism. That is why you would find veiled Zoroastrian women.

Pashtun women at the same time were not veiled.

[IamDZJ]

uncle roadrunner, a society picks up on what it considers sophistication whenever it's introduced to a new means of it. in order for something to become a part of a culture, it does not have to be 100000 years old.
it doesn't matter how long the veil has been around for. muslims value the purpose that it serves to different degrees therefore they will define/put it to use as they please.