Toramana appreciation thread

[pir_Rokhan]

Toramana is gem of a person who has expertise in Computer science [being his profession] as well as Politics at the same time and has a passion for culture, sociology, and anthropology. In the freedom movement of Pakhtuns, I see him in the leading row.

[ScimitarXEdge]

It says a lot about someone that they need to create their own "appreciation" thread because others do not/have not seen the merits of their ideas or personality.

I find the contents within the first either pure comedy, self deceit or arrogant posturing. The Pashtun Nationalist who on one hand pretends to stand for the ethnic group but advocates the cultural mores of Imperialists to rule over "his people". Bizzare, but we can see what this person is a Trojan Horse for. On that note, his arguments are paradoxical to say the least. He's against the rule of Islaam for being by some absurd notion a vehicle for another culture's intrusion upon Pashtuns which are products of conditions alien to Pashtuns, but cow tows and advocates Imperial models of cultural fabric and ideals to be imposed on Pashtuns, despite being a product of a habitat and conditions alien to Pashtuns. That's just the tip of the iceberg as they say.

I understand that many of his admirers are young or not familiar with the constructs of logical debate. How many standard logical fallacies Toramana employs makes you/us/myself wonder if this person actually has a competent academic education. He's a good Search Engine user and that's all, if that.

He's the snake oil salesman of the forum. Playing the heart strings of Nationalism, but fighting for Europeans.

[Alchemist]

^ His biggest delusion is that he is on par with you and barakzai because he invented some new silly terminologies like camelism.

[Catya Sher]

Good comments Scimitar, Alchemist, Master Khan, anyone else.

I say we should ask Toramana, as long he is in The Spotlight,
to shed a little light on himself
Why do we know nothing at all about him, at least many of us ?

Is "camelism" - I am writing in camel colored ink - meant to mean
Kemalism ? If so he is probably a spiritual descendant of those who pushed a rough Westernizing agenda on religious Turkey.

By the way : I am still waiting for Toramana to say his prayers as promised months ago...!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It says a lot about someone that they need to create their own "appreciation" thread because others do not/have not seen the merits of their ideas or personality.

I find the contents within the first either pure comedy, self deceit or arrogant posturing. The Pashtun Nationalist who on one hand pretends to stand for the ethnic group but advocates the cultural mores of Imperialists to rule over "his people". Bizzare, but we can see what this person is a Trojan Horse for. On that note, his arguments are paradoxical to say the least. He's against the rule of Islaam for being by some absurd notion a vehicle for another culture's intrusion upon Pashtuns which are products of conditions alien to Pashtuns, but cow tows and advocates Imperial models of cultural fabric and ideals to be imposed on Pashtuns, despite being a product of a habitat and conditions alien to Pashtuns. That's just the tip of the iceberg as they say.

I understand that many of his admirers are young or not familiar with the constructs of logical debate. How many standard logical fallacies Toramana employs makes you/us/myself wonder if this person actually has a competent academic education. He's a good Search Engine user and that's all, if that.

He's the snake oil salesman of the forum. Playing the heart strings of Nationalism, but fighting for Europeans.

I have many family members that are like Toramana. I know he seems cold and prickly on the outside, and one should certainly not cede an inch when it comes to ethical debates, but I think his true nature is probably benign.

So this family member of mine is in Afghan Mellat. He constantly criticizes Hazrat Umar bin Al Khattab (we are sunni mind you) and refers to him as the predecessor for Anwar Al Awlaki and also refers to an incident where Umar imposed a capital punishment as proof of his hardline views. I will note that I do not think that Awlaki is that far off at all in his commentary on imperialism. After looking into the incident I found that Umar actually imposed what he did as a nominal measure that involved wrapping the individual in a carpet so that he would only recieve "symbolic blows." ... This family member quieted down when I showed him the hadith reference and now knows that I wont bite when he says inflammatory things, but that I will softly correct him with evidence.

Interestingly enough, on the other side of the border I have a relative or two that are hardline nationalists of the same brand. Other family members of mine condemn these folks and get emotional when they hear these guys say what they do. They tested me out as they knew my religious views and I generally just debated them with evidence but did not get personal with them. As such, they and I have developed a good relationship and they actually see the Islamist Pashtuns that admire Ahmad Shah etc in a different light now. They still do not ideologically agree, but they no longer advocate wholesale bombing.

So its the same with Toramana. I do not sense a hatred of us from him as I do from folks like Parsiwaan etc. He is generally just an ideologue and likes to argue. So the best thing is to show him izaat per his age (I think there is a 5 year or so difference between us) and just do as Islam says and speak truth as often as we can. That being said, equal blows intellectually are required when he speaks what I believe is untruth or spreads propaganda. I off course will not cease to debate him when I hear views of his that I think have contrary evidence.

I think if we all met, you would see that probably we would all get along, pray in the same line, and like any Pashtun get together there would be some sports and politics that get us all emotional. Everyone would ask everyone elses pardon at the end of the day etc.

Now, on the other hand, the dangerous folks like Asfandayaar, Hekmet Karzai, Ahady and propaganda agents like Taj Andersen have actually bloody hands and are in no way innocent. I think you would agree that a computer scientist like Toramana, is about as harmless as the rest of us.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

^ His biggest delusion is that he is on par with you and barakzai because he invented some new silly terminologies like camelism.

Thank you for your confidence wrorre, I feel that you are far more enlightened when it comes to ilm of the deen than I am and look forward to learning much from both you and Edge. I am just an amateur that reads a lot.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Good comments Scimitar, Alchemist, Master Khan, anyone else.

I say we should ask Toramana, as long he is in The Spotlight,
to shed a little light on himself
Why do we know nothing at all about him, at least many of us ?

Is "camelism" - I am writing in camel colored ink - meant to mean
Kemalism ? If so he is probably a spiritual descendant of those who pushed a rough Westernizing agenda on religious Turkey.

By the way : I am still waiting for Toramana to say his prayers as promised months ago...!

We seem to know a reasonable amount from his writing. He appears to be a Yusufzai Swaati in his mid 30s. Unmarried right now, but I keep telling him its about time per sunnah and Pashtunwali. He seems to prefer his cause celebre as opposed to a wife. The guess on my part is that he is a feudal/khanate family per the circles he runs in. He is studying for his advanced degree in Comp Sci in Canada where he retains activity in the nationalist movement there. He likely knows folks like Salma Ataullah Jan, Inayat Khan Kakar, javed Akhtaar, Jahan Zeb Khan and various other figures in the arm of the Canadian ANP/Afghan Mellat movement.

A portion of his anger towards the Islamists like Mullah Fazlullah is likely derived from a combination of him being upset about the situation in Buner and the other local areas. I would assume this affects his family and land (his degree of obstinance may derive from actual deaths in the family during this turbulent time in Swat). Where we disagree is as to what allowed Sufi Muhammad to be so effective in the first place... I tend to think per reading and my very little familiarity with the region, that the feudal contrivances and injustices of Afzal Khan Lala, the Mianguls, and the other Khans led to the popularity of the local Taliban movement. Meritocracy was subverted by these folks. The other sad thing that followed the army incursion as requested by Miangul Jehanzab (subsequently killed in badal by the Taliban) is that many an innocent Swaati was murdered by the Pak army during their requested incursion. So the feudals basically screwed over the Pashtuns of Swaat three times: before the Taliban leading to their rise, during their rule by requesting the army incursion and drone attacks, and currently with the re-establishment of their rule and continued subversion of meritocracy.

[Catya Sher]

I think Alchemist is astute spiritually. Scimitar somehow sometimes misses things on the spiritual wavelength; he's more of a talker.

I was going to write earlier, too, that Toramana is probably a nice guy in person, with a soft demeanor.

The key is prayers: if he would say prayers, the snarls in his thinking would be alleviated.
Scimitar is trying by means of words, and is highly effective.

However, this problem of imperfect clarity on the part of Toramana could be resolved thereby.
He knows it and he's just resisting because like everyone, he doesn't want to
get out of his old mold and CHANGE.

We on this forum who feel like this encourage him to try out his prayers, see what happens !
There's not anything to lose is there?!

Catya Khatun

[ajoke bec. he was convinced i was a Turkish Sultana until quite recently]

[Catya Sher]

Thanks, BarakzaiAbdali :

That explains A LOT about this mysterious character.
If he thought I was Turkish, I thought he was some sort of medical
profession technician from your earlier remarks, and previously, I thought he was a teacher in school.
But at what level, I had no idea.
That clarifies this part as well as the possible source of his deeply entrenched animosities toward Islam in general and the YouKnowWhos in particular !

Maybe a nice pious wife WOULD help his life to be in better balance - he seems
too distressed ALL the time about politics.
I pray Toramana will heed your good advice on this point !

[IamDZJ]

instead of hogging on each others pride, i suggest each and every single one of you focus and reflect on that of your own.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

instead of hogging on each others pride, i suggest each and every single one of you focus and reflect on that of your own.

You need Zoloft. It might improve the anger management component to your depression.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

instead of hogging on each others pride, i suggest each and every single one of you focus and reflect on that of your own.

Btw, since you love references, here is one:

"SSRIs are extremely useful in anger management when a low frustration tolerance is leading to frequent eruptions."

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/disp...le/10168/50241

[IamDZJ]

You need Zoloft. It might improve the anger management component to your depression.

though the thought of hammering a nail on your forehead would do me much better.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

though the thought of hammering a nail on your forehead would do me much better.

Its OK, we can initiate you at a higher dose. 25 mg --> 50 mg. You may also have some issues with increased testosterone levels which may explain the issues with why you are a little more muscularly endowed and able to hammer nails than the average female. Help with that will cost you a bit.

[IamDZJ]

Its OK, we can initiate you at a higher dose. 25 mg --> 50 mg. You may also have some issues with increased testosterone levels which may explain the issues with why you are a little more muscularly endowed and able to hammer nails than the average female. Help with that will cost you a bit.

here is you clown costume....you may start entertaining me now...of course, attaining my attention has been proved to be a difficult task...don't feel too bad for yourself if i walk away as if i don't give a s**t.