Intro

[ذو الفقار]

As salaamu alaikum

I am Zul Fiqar. I am Multani on my mom's side and Hyderabadi on my dad's side, born and living in Canada. I am very interested in discussing political and religious topics.

[Traveller]

Which Hyderabad?

[ذو الفقار]

Which Hyderabad?

Hyderabad Deccan in India

[Traveller]

Hyderabad Deccan in India

Interesting mix. Are you Urdu-speaking?

[ذو الفقار]

Interesting mix. Are you Urdu-speaking?

On my dad's side I am Urdu-speaking. I'm Punjabi on my mom's side. Needless to say, I am fluent in both languages and also understand some Saraiki
Although my mom's side is Multani, my maternal grandfather came to Pakistan from Batala Tehsil in India. Therefore most of my roots are in India and not Pakistan

[ذو الفقار]

I am a Muslim belonging to the Ishaat e Tauheed wa Sunna persuasion, commonly known as Mamati or Panjpiri. We believe that the deceased are unable to hear. I am highly influenced by the preacher Allama Ahmad Said Khan Multani Chitrori (rahmatullah alaih)

[ذو الفقار]

Now to explain a bit more about my thoughts. I do not like the Pakistani State and the military establishment. I am opposed to all forms of nationalism, ethnic and civic. My first loyalty is to the holy places like Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Mt. Sinai. I reject loyalty based on “blood and soil”. I reject the concept of nation-state. I am an apocalyptic Mahdist who would like to see a government established under the leadership of a pious person of Ahlul Bayt preferably Fatimi descent. I look forward to supporting the Qiyam (armed uprising) of Mahdi al-Muntadhir against all of the repressive nation-states in the Muslim world. I am passionately opposed to all forms of idolatry and superstition such as mazaaraat/tomb veneration, hanging “Ta’widh” (amulets), astrology, magic, palmistry, fortune-telling, praying to the deceased, etc. I support raising the plain black flag of the apocalyptic Mahdist movement and the Tawwabin movement and reject all other national and political flags. I am opposed to false religious movements such as Tablighi Jama’at, modern Salafism “Ahlul Hadith”, Hayati Deobandi, Barelwi/green turban sect, Ithna Ashari (Twelver) sect, Jama’ati Islami Mawdudian pseudo-religious political ideology, and liberal modernism of Sir Syed and “Allama” Iqbal. Likewise I am strongly opposed to socialism, social welfare state, leftism, communism, Marxism, etc.

[marwat]

Now to explain a bit more about my thoughts. I do not like the Pakistani State and the military establishment. I am opposed to all forms of nationalism, ethnic and civic. My first loyalty is to the holy places like Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Mt. Sinai. I reject loyalty based on “blood and soil”. I reject the concept of nation-state. I am an apocalyptic Mahdist who would like to see a government established under the leadership of a pious person of Ahlul Bayt preferably Fatimi descent. I look forward to supporting the Qiyam (armed uprising) of Mahdi al-Muntadhir against all of the repressive nation-states in the Muslim world. I am passionately opposed to all forms of idolatry and superstition such as mazaaraat/tomb veneration, hanging “Ta’widh” (amulets), astrology, magic, palmistry, fortune-telling, praying to the deceased, etc. I support raising the plain black flag of the apocalyptic Mahdist movement and the Tawwabin movement and reject all other national and political flags. I am opposed to false religious movements such as Tablighi Jama’at, modern Salafism “Ahlul Hadith”, Hayati Deobandi, Barelwi/green turban sect, Ithna Ashari (Twelver) sect, Jama’ati Islami Mawdudian pseudo-religious political ideology, and liberal modernism of Sir Syed and “Allama” Iqbal. Likewise I am strongly opposed to socialism, social welfare state, leftism, communism, Marxism, etc.

you are welcome, we have another brother shamlawar khurasani from wahabisam school of thought.
first how do you will make sure that some one is ahle bait and fatimi descent, what if he later turn out to be fake. second believing that only ahle bait can lead us is exactly cult worshiping, this will end up like ismailli.

I am a Muslim belonging to the Ishaat e Tauheed wa Sunna persuasion, commonly known as Mamati or Panjpiri. We believe that the deceased are unable to hear. I am highly influenced by the preacher Allama Ahmad Said Khan Multani Chitrori (rahmatullah alaih)

panjpiri can be found in KPK district buner and swat too.
do you mean that deceased other senses works other than hearing?

[ذو الفقار]

you are welcome, we have another brother shamlawar khurasani from wahabisam school of thought.
first how do you will make sure that some one is ahle bait and fatimi descent, what if he later turn out to be fake. second believing that only ahle bait can lead us is exactly cult worshiping, this will end up like ismailli.

panjpiri can be found in KPK district buner and swat too.
do you mean that deceased other senses works other than hearing?

Thank you for your warm welcome.

1. Those who are of Fatimi descent can prove their descent through their recorded geneology (shajarah-e-nasab)

2. It is not cultic to desire that we be ruled by Ahlul Bait. This was the desire of early Islamic uprisings against the cruel Umayyads and Abbasids. This doesn’t mean just anyone from Ahlul Bait descent, but someone who is known for piety and knowledge.

3. Isma’ili is a sect which believe that their Imams are infallible. They also indulge in idolatrous practices. I do not like such a misguided sect whatsoever.

4. Panjpir is the place of Darul Quraan, a great Madrassa, currently led by Maulana Muhammad Tayyib Tahiri. I support much of their beliefs and ideology.

5. When I say that the deceased cannot hear, that doesn’t mean I believe any of their other senses are working. I only say deceased cannot hear because many misguided Muslims believe they can hear. My belief is that the deceased have no awareness whatsoever of what is happening in our world. The souls of the deceased have departed this world and are in another realm called Barzakh. They cannot see or hear anything from our World.

[marwat]

Thank you for your warm welcome.

1. Those who are of Fatimi descent can prove their descent through their recorded geneology (shajarah-e-nasab)

recorded genealogy, if we had to believe the recorded genealogy than half of Pakistani who claim to be of syed origin actually carry these recorded genealogy. syed was not royalty, and their genealogical record is not authentic. you can't name all the syed of 17th century, would you? there is no standard acceptable genealogical map of syed. everyone will claim there one is true.

5. When I say that the deceased cannot hear, that doesn’t mean I believe any of their other senses are working. I only say deceased cannot hear because many misguided Muslims believe they can hear. My belief is that the deceased have no awareness whatsoever of what is happening in our world. The souls of the deceased have departed this world and are in another realm called Barzakh. They cannot see or hear anything from our World.

do you believe that Muhammad PBUH has no awareness too? what about the green turban sect.
what if science was able to bring back the dead, isn't a dead just a brain dead. what do you think the cryonization will end up for the islamic theology.
it is perfectly ok if you don't want to discuss science, or mix it with your belief system

[ذو الفقار]

recorded genealogy, if we had to believe the recorded genealogy than half of Pakistani who claim to be of syed origin actually carry these recorded genealogy. syed was not royalty, and their genealogical record is not authentic. you can't name all the syed of 17th century, would you? there is no standard acceptable genealogical map of syed. everyone will claim there one is true.



do you believe that Muhammad PBUH has no awareness too? what about the green turban sect.
what if science was able to bring back the dead, isn't a dead just a brain dead. what do you think the cryonization will end up for the islamic theology.
it is perfectly ok if you don't want to discuss science, or mix it with your belief system

As for Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), I believe he too has no awareness of what is happening in this world. He has died and his soul departed from this world and went into the realm of Illiyeen. Prophet Muhammad is not in Medina sharif, when you visit his grave there you are only visiting his bones, but he himself is not in this world, he has gone to another dimension. I am against the beliefs of the green turban sect. Green turban and shawls will be the hallmark of the followers of Dajjal.

For us death means when the Angel of Death takes away the soul permanently. If the soul comes back it means that death was not decreed. In Arabic language, those who are close to death but technically alive may still be called as Mawtaa (dead). When the Messiah raised the dead back to life in Allah's Name, they were those dead people who were not technically dead as the decree of death was not on them yet, but they were extremely close to dying, and so Messiah prayed for them and Allah restored them to life. But once Allah decrees permanent death and the Angel of Death takes away the soul of someone they can never come back to life in this world.

[maneatinglizard]

Welcome.

If you're Mamati, why do you only accept Fatimi rulers? This is a sign of Shi'ism, and your username makes it seem even more like you're Shia. I've never heard of Mamatis placing such an importance on Sayyids.

Are you Zaydi?

EDIT: I read some of your other posts and you seem confused lol. I suggest you discuss your beliefs with a knowledgeable local scholar. There are some very learned people in Canada so inshallah there should be someone close by who may be a better person to talk Islam with than randoms on an Internet forum.

[toughpashtun]

Its kind of strange that being a Panjpiri you insist that the Muslim leader should be Fatimid / Syed. This is a Shia tendency.

[ذو الفقار]

Welcome.

If you're Mamati, why do you only accept Fatimi rulers? This is a sign of Shi'ism, and your username makes it seem even more like you're Shia. I've never heard of Mamatis place such an importance on Sayyids.

Are you Zaydi?

EDIT: I read some of your other posts and you seem confused lol. I suggest you discuss your beliefs with a knowledgeable local scholar. There are some very learned people in Canada so inshallah there should be someone close by who may be a better person to talk Islam with than randoms on an Internet forum.

I don't insist that rulers should be Fatimi Sayyid, I only said it is ideal. This is why Imam Abu Hanifa (rahmatullah alaih) supported the armed uprisings of Imam Zaid and Imam Nafs-al-Zakiya. Imam Mahdi will be a Fatimi Sayyid too.

This is more of a political rather than religious thing, of course Islam encompasses both theology and politics.

I am "Mamati" in terms of my creed and theology.

[toughpashtun]

I don't insist that rulers should be Fatimi Sayyid, I only said it is ideal. This is why Imam Abu Hanifa (rahmatullah alaih) supported the armed uprisings of Imam Zaid and Imam Nafs-al-Zakiya. Imam Mahdi will be a Fatimi Sayyid too.

This is more of a political rather than religious thing, of course Islam encompasses both theology and politics.

I am "Mamati" in terms of my creed and theology.

But your opinion that Hazrat Ali should have been the first Khalifa is not supported by any Sunni scholar , be that Imam Abu Hanifa or anyone else.