Pakhtoonistan...

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

the Farsiwan is right on several fronts

1. Loy Afghanistan contradicts Afghan unity. If you advocate Afghan unity, you have to accept the Durand.

2. Non Pashtuns will never accept Loy Afghanistan

That is why I have said time and time again here, it is either Afghan unity or united Pakhtunistan.

Ideally, my heart lies with my Lar brothers, I support a united Pakhtunkhwa. I wish no disrespect or harm to my non Pakhtun people either in Afghanistan or Pakistan, but my allegiance is to Pakhtana.

I have said before and I will say it again, HERAT is not Afghanistan. MAZAR is not Afghanistan. Afghanistan is from the Hindu Kush to Abaseen. PANJSHER is not Afghanistan.

If unity with Pakhtuns means no more Afghanistan in its current state then so be it. I dont wish emnity with Non Pakhtuns. I would love to see stable relations and open trade, etc between both entities

3. He is also right in saying that the new generation of Non Pakhtuns are enlightened to their peoples history and to what the Taliban means. The Taliban will NOT have the same easy ride they had before in conquering the country. The non Pakhtana are united against Taliban, and their resistance will be much more ferocious.

Having said all that Farsiwan brother, you need to understand one thing yourself. I acknowledge that the situation of the last 20 years has awakened and empowered the non Pakhtun minorities. Gone are the days of a silent minority. Zahir Shah era documents are no longer accepted in parts of the North. Kochian dont have the free reign to travel like they used to.

But you need to understand one thing clearly, and I dont say this out of spite or hatred, but to convey the reality to you.

Pakhtuns are also awakened. Gone are the days of us having to go to school in Dari or having no issues with all Dari media. Gone are the days of those Barakzai Persians.

We havent forgotten the Pakhtana that were killed in those containers. We havent forgotten the rapes of Pakhtun women in the North. We havent forgotten the Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara translators pointing out which villages to target for NATO. We havent forgotten how the NDS and ANA have arrested, tortured and killed Pakhtana.

The north hasnt felt full wrath of Pakhtuns since Ahmad Shah Baba. Nadir Shah, Zahir Shah, Taliban etc none of them had full Pakhtun backing. But the next war, and there will be a next war, will have full Pakhtana backing them.

So it is what it is brother

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Amir Al Ghaznavi what about Afghan Unity that includes unity with Pashtunkhwa brothers? Why is it either or? Why cant they be included? They were once part of Afghanistan right? Why does it contradict?

for 2 reasons wrora

1. lar pakhtuns will not leave a multi ethnic state for another multi ethnic state. yes they will go from a minority in one multi ethnic state to being a majority, but they have huge economic losses as a result. it doesnt make sense from their perspective. you have to convince them how a hazara or tajik is better than a punjabi or sindhi

2. non pashtuns will never accept this

[Toramana]

Hi Kuddos to Amir Al Ghaznavi for having stated the obvious. This is precisely the point I and many other Pashtun nationalists want to bring home i.e., Loy Afghanistan is impossible of achievability. In addition to the two points mentioned by you, I will say, any kind of Pashtun unity in the form of Loy Afghanistan would also need global and regional consent/consensus. Where and how would that consensus come from/about? How many friends do we have in the region or around the globe? Is Iran going to back that or for that matter would Tajakistan, Uzbakistan, and other Central Asian states support it? Can India and Pakistan agree to it? Would US, China, and Russia allow it?
All these are questions we Pashtuns should ask ourselves.

Who is going to give Pashtuns that big stake in the region ? And in whose interest is the revival of Pashtun Empire except probably Pashtuns(which is very doubtfull)? The fact is, Pashtun Empire (i.e., Loy Afghanistan) was established by Ahmad Shah Baba when there was no other power in the region (after the fall of Mughals in India and Safavids in Iran) to match Pashtuns in strength. That is why, Pashtuns got the chance to establish the Afghan Empire. In 19th Century, with the arrival of British, that empire got truncated. And in 20th Century, Afghanistan existed more as an imperial convenience to provide a buffer first between Tzarist Russia and British imperialists and later between communism and Islamo-capitalism. With the invasion of Afghanistan by USSR, that raison-deter was also gone. The Russo-Afghan War has changed the political map of the region forever with even the slightest chance now of the revival of the so-called Pashtun Empire aka Loy Afghanistan eliminated.

There can be some kind of regional support for Pashtun unity in the form of a Pashtun state but not the vice versa. And accepting the Durand Line would not solve the problem Pashtuns are facing today and most likely are going to face in future again i.e., to effectively put a road block to the expansionist Indian Muslim ideology and the agressive advance of the Persian cultural hegemony, and to secure Pashtun land so it doesn't become a battling ground for the interests of foreign powers as it became during Cold War. Pashtun unity is mandatory if Pashtuns have to develop an urban culture through connecting the now divided Pashtun lands e.g. linking Peshawar to Jalalabad and Queta to Kandahar.

One should also ask oneself, how much is Afghanistan's south dependent on Asfghnistan north? Most likely not to any great degree.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Hi Kuddos to Abul Alla Ghaznavi. This is precisely the point I and many other Pashtun nationalists want to bring home i.e., Loy Afghanistan is impossible of achievability. In addition to the two points mentioned by Abul Alla Ghaznavi, I will say any kind of Pashtun unity in the form of Loy Afghanistan would also need global and regional consent/consensus. Where would that come from? Is Iran going to back that or for that matter Tajakistan, Uzbakistan, and other Central Asian states? Can India and Pakistan agree to it? Would US, China, and Russia allow it?

Who is going to give Pashtuns that big stake in the region ? And in whose interest is the revival of Pashtun Empire except probably Pashtuns? The fact is, Pashtun Empire (i.e., Loy Afghanistan) was established by Ahmad Shah Baba when there was no other power in the region (after the fall of Mughals in India and Safavids in Iran) to match Pashtuns in strength. That is why, Pashtuns got the chance to establish the Afghan Empire. In 19th Century, with the arrival of British, that empire got truncated. And in 20th Century, Afghanistan existed more as an imperial convenience to provide a buffer first between Tzarist Russia and British imperialists and later between communism and Islamo-capitalism. With the invasion of Afghanistan by USSR, that raison-deter was also gone. The Russo-Afghan War has changed the political map of the region forever with even the slightest chance now of the revival of the so-called Pashtun Empire aka Loy Afghanistan eliminated.

kudos to you too brother, but you butchered the name

[Toramana]

Hahaha sorry Amir al Ghaznavi, I couldn't read your name carefully. I have corrected it in the original post. Please correct it in the quoted version. Thanks.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Hahaha sorry Amir al Ghaznavi, I couldn't read your name carefully. I have corrected it in the original post. Please correct it in the quoted version. Thanks.

lol im gonna leave it,...has a nice ring to it

[Khidr]

Ghaznavee,

In the spirit of honesty, I fully agree and confirm that crimes were committed against the Pashtuns as recently as this decade. You should not forget any injustices.

BUT the crimes against the Pashtuns were done on an individual basis or by a militia of thugs of Dostumis or Hazaras or even Tajiks (I’m not trying to condone it). However, let me say we also HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE SYSTEMATIC STATE IMPLEMENTED GENOCIDE of Abdur Rahman’s or the rape of our women and looting of our houses committed by Mangal, Jaji, Zadran tribesman in 1930 under Nadir Shah.

Nor have we forgotten the scorch earth policy committed by then “Minister of Interior” of Mohd Gul ‘Khan’ Mohmand. Nor have we forgotten the stealing of our lands in the north, and granting them to Pashtun families from the south, nor have we forgotten the changing of our old district names like Sabzawar into Shindaband and Pashtun Kot. I won’t even mention the crimes of the Talibs.

No doubt, the injustices felt by ALL SIDES will be tapped onto in any new upcoming war. It's becoming increasingly likely that there is ONE FINAL violent chapter yet to be written in the story of 'Afghanistan.'

I agree, the Barakzai/Popalzai ‘kings” didn’t do anything for your average Pashtun. They merely used the “Pashtun” name to enrich their own clan. What difference to the lives of your average petty Wardak, or Shinwari or Zadran or Ahmadzai did the 200 year rule of Mohmadzai/Barakzai/Popalzai bring out?

Even as far as Kandahar was concerned, what did the ‘lower caste’ tribes of Kandahar attain from the rules of Mohmadzai-Barakzai? The tribes like Noorzai or Baris or Ishaqzai ....got nothing.

One small note also brother: Ahmad Khan Abdali, didn’t not even so as raise his voice on any Tajik or others.

He was an incredibly smart politician...way ahead of his time, he forged an economic alliance (with him as the head) with prominent local ‘Khans’ and families of the north, like the Amir of Balkh, Amir of Qataghan, Amir of Badakhsan and Amir of Kohistan and Amir of Koh Dahman, as well as Shia Qizilbash of Kabul (who were his inner trusted bodyguards), and Hazaras and Uzbeks.

The purpose of this alliance was to get rich, and go on a joint military march into India. This alliance of his lasted in one form or another until 1930, when Nadir Shah came and executed these traditional heads of the north who were close confidents of Ghazi Amanullah, like the Darwazi family of Badakhsan amongst others.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Ghaznavee,

In the spirit of honesty, I fully agree and confirm that crimes were committed against the Pashtuns as recently as this decade. You should not forget any injustices.

BUT the crimes against the Pashtuns were done on an individual basis or by a militia of thugs of Dostumis or Hazaras or even Tajiks (I’m not trying to condone it). However, let me say we also HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE SYSTEMATIC STATE IMPLEMENTED GENOCIDE of Abdur Rahman’s or the rape of our women and looting of our houses committed by Mangal, Jaji, Zadran tribesman in 1930 under Nadir Shah.

Nor have we forgotten the scorch earth policy committed by then “Minister of Interior” of Mohd Gul ‘Khan’ Mohmand. Nor have we forgotten the stealing of our lands in the north, and granting them to Pashtun families from the south, nor have we forgotten the changing of our old district names like Sabzawar into Shindaband and Pashtun Kot. I won’t even mention the crimes of the Talibs.

No doubt, the injustices felt by ALL SIDES will be tapped onto in any new upcoming war. It's becoming increasingly likely that there is ONE FINAL violent chapter yet to be written in the story of 'Afghanistan.'

I agree, the Barakzai/Popalzai ‘kings” didn’t do anything for your average Pashtun. They merely used the “Pashtun” name to enrich their own clan. What difference to the lives of your average petty Wardak, or Shinwari or Zadran or Ahmadzai did the 200 year rule of Mohmadzai/Barakzai/Popalzai bring out?

Even as far as Kandahar was concerned, what did the ‘lower caste’ tribes of Kandahar attain from the rules of Mohmadzai-Barakzai? The tribes like Noorzai or Baris or Ishaqzai ....got nothing.

One small note also brother: Ahmad Khan Abdali, didn’t not even so as raise his voice on any Tajik or others.

He was an incredibly smart politician...way ahead of his time, he forged an economic alliance (with him as the head) with prominent local ‘Khans’ and families of the north, like the Amir of Balkh, Amir of Qataghan, Amir of Badakhsan and Amir of Kohistan and Amir of Koh Dahman, as well as Shia Qizilbash of Kabul (who were his inner trusted bodyguards), and Hazaras and Uzbeks.

The purpose of this alliance was to get rich, and go on a joint military march into India. This alliance of his lasted in one form or another until 1930, when Nadir Shah came and executed these traditional heads of the north who were close confidents of Ghazi Amanullah, like the Darwazi family of Badakhsan amongst others.

I agree completely, the crimes against Pakhtuns were not state sanctioned like the crimes against non Pakhtuns. You will never see me or any reasonable minded Pakhtuns here (of which there are many) try to defend those.

And I appreciate that you dont hold the average Pakhtun responsible for the crime of Pashtun Kings from one clan (Muhamadzai) from one sub tribe (Barakzai) or one tribe (Abdali/Durranai).

This new generation of Pakhtuns should disavoy any association with those Persian Kings. They dont represent us.

I also appreciate that unlike other imbecilic Khorasannis, you dont disrespect Ahmad Shah Baba, who never commited crimes against the North. He was the rightful inheritor of the Amir-ship of Khorasan, and worked in alliance with many non Pakhtuns.

One thing I will say though, is that the crimes committed against Pakhtuns over the last decade, have taken a different scope because it was unprecedented in how Afghans used foreigners to target the other side like how the Non Pakhtuns have used NATO against Pakhtuns. This is a dangerous precedent, precisely because we had an excellent chance to start from a clean blank slate after 2001. Their actions have ensured this cycle of retaliation will continue

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

I also want to add two things about the historical references you made

1. I will never justify morally what Amir Abdul Rahman did. But he was brutal against everybody. Im half Ghiljai on my moms side, and the Iron Amir suppressed many Ghiljais. He also ensured Pakhtuns cultural deterioration by exiling them within the country away from Pakhtun lands which not only resulted in land theft and confiscation from non Pakhtuns but gave us generations of lost Farsi speaking Pakhtuns. He spared the sunni Hazaras, but destroyed the Shia ones who rebelled against his rule. So its not a clear cut case of Pakhtun brutality against non Pakhtuns strictly on the basis of racism. Lets not forget his ultimate crime: Selling out the Lar Pakhtuns

2. Nadir Shah also did not have a monopoly on Pakhtun support. He represented one family (Musabihan) within one clan of one subtribe of one tribe

[Khan1]

Thanks shlombayi- good post!

Pak is a ridiculous FAILED STATE, technically it shouldn't exist, and in reality i don't care whether it stays in one piece or breaks into a thousand.

We all know that Pashtuns and our geographic region belongs as one- not split between AFG and that PK state.....