wardak leaders ;)

[Khidr]

Amongst Kabulis, there is this popular stereotype (right or wrong lol) that Wardag are extremely stupid and naive.

But what I wanted to ask is that a few of my Mashriqi friends have also told me that amongst Pashtun tribes, Wardak are seen as the 'lowest caste' of all Pashtun tribes?

[Michin Khel]

Why did they move to Hayatabad Toramana?

So you are not aware of the simple fact that hayatabad is full of afghans?

[Fahd]

Amongst Kabulis, there is this popular stereotype (right or wrong lol) that Wardag are extremely stupid and naive.

But what I wanted to ask is that a few of my Mashriqi friends have also told me that amongst Pashtun tribes, Wardak are seen as the 'lowest caste' of all Pashtun tribes?

i didn't understand what u mean and what u had wrote
but all tribes in afg or must of them saying that wardags like that because
always wardags Races in any things in college, in works ,in company in evry thing
u can go any where and see that the must studens will be wardags
and thats why always other who saying that about wardags Envious
also in afg war alot of pashtuns who come to makkah and meet ma father or any cousins and know that he's wardag
he said mashallah wardag ppl from the must tribes who did jihad and still beat up any one come to our province .

i don't know if ma post was Necessary or is reply to ur's LOLz
but inshallah someone gona post what u want to know .

and what thats mean Mashriqi ??

[Feroza_Banu]

Amongst Kabulis, there is this popular stereotype (right or wrong lol) that Wardag are extremely stupid and naive.

But what I wanted to ask is that a few of my Mashriqi friends have also told me that amongst Pashtun tribes, Wardak are seen as the 'lowest caste' of all Pashtun tribes?

lol its just a stereotype that wardags are very simple people and they can be fooled easily. hence, the countless jokes about wardaks but it doesn't hold any truth. if this holds any truth then what do you have to say about stereotypes about other ethnic groups: as kandaharis are all gay, logaris are all dancers and dhol zan, shamaalis are all bacha baaz, laghmanis are all 420, kabulis are all kachalo khor (meanin they are stingy, and don't eat anything more than kachalo), hazaras are all mosh khor, uzbaks are all "kala khaam", and i can go on and on about panjsheris and other people from different provinces in afghanistan.

and i don't know what you mean about caste system... pashtoons don't have it. the truth about wardags are that they are considered one of the most respected tribes amongst pashtoons. they are one of the most educated ones too. till today the highest rate of admission in Kabul university is from wardag. no matter where wardags go they make sure they study. it is also truth about wardags that they are the most down to earth people in Afghanistan. they acheive but they don't brag about it.

[Khidr]

I’m aware of the city vs rural divide amongst Pashtuns. The same schism exists amongst city Tajiks of Herat, Mazar, and Kabul and the country Tajiks living outside of these three cities. Tajiks also looked down at the Persianzed Pashtuns and until today refer to them as ‘Naqileen’ which rough translates to imitators/unauthentic/alien.

However, the people who told me this about Wardags were Mashriqi, not Persianzed Pashtuns. I don’t know how much of what they said had to do with perhaps their personal/tribal prejudices. They were from Nangarhar but they said Wardag are not considered Pashtuns by the eastern Pashtuns and that Noorzai are not considered Abdali amongst the Adbali Pashtuns.

It seems everyone has a stereotype about anyone in Afghanistan.

[Catya Sher]

Informative discussions here.

Back for a moment to Amin Wardak, one bit of news, I hope it's all right to mention here, is that there are reports he went back to Afghanistan.
I don't have details yet, but maybe he is positioning himself for the next govt. after the occupation ends --? It's not clear whether he will take part in the current one.

[Catya Sher]

Unknown, it's a definitely reliable source. I was a bit sketchy because the details of what he is planning are hazy.
I guess word has it, though, that he may run for a seat in the Parliament. That surprises me.

[Catya Sher]

I really hope so about the militia and being part of the resistance.
THAT's why I was cagey, because I don't know and fear he may be only running for Parliament.
I almost didn't post it until I found out much more.
However, I am so curious - and due to your interest too, which i really appreciate - that I'm going to try to find out more.

I sure hope it's the interpretation YOU gave ! I was fearing he might be either neutral or even, I pray not, cooperating with NATO/US.

[Catya Sher]

Great assessment!
He truly IS a fair and good leader.
Now I feel more motivated to write up that little biography I was going to.

You are smart, truly, to pick up on this item, which sounds small, but IS significant.

My crystal ball is telling me that YOU will go far in helping Afghanistan too, as you are so sincerely caring about the future of the country.

Will it be an Amin Wardak - Unknown ticket for 2014 ?!
I actually don't want any elections, but there inevitably will be some for a time to come.

[Khidr]

LOL, you think Pashtuns want to be persians? Please don't take offense, but the Pashtuns who may have a little persian influence are not doing that on purpose, it is because these Pashtuns are the ones that had many fights with Persians (one in which they burned the city of Isfahan down to the ground).

The same thing goes for Pashtuns of Pakhtunkhwa with their association with Punjabis. Pakhtunkhwa Pashtuns may have taken a few things from Punjab, but they never want to be Punjabi. Likewise, Persians also picked up a few Pashtun customs from when the Pashtuns ruled them like avoiding fornication since it was a national practice of Persia. However, that has all disappeared for the Persians nowadays, so it was good for nothing.


Pashtuns do not want to be Persian, nor do they want to be Punjabi. They are proud of themselves. You seem like an ok person, but please stop having these grandeur delusions of Persions because you originate from there. Pashtuns look down on Persians in so many ways. There are so many jokes, but there is no need to add fuel to the burning fire now is there??? I always tell Persians who tell me Afghanistan and Persia are the same, I say this: No, we Pashtuns have nothing to DO with Persia. We are different. I don't think they like to hear that!!! LOL

Why did you edit your original post? LOL

My reply was merely a response to your claim (prior to you editing it out) where you stated that ‘rural Pashtuns’ look down at “urban/Persianized” Pashtuns, to which I replied that even some Tajiks and/or other natives of North have stereotypes and look down at “Persianized Pashtuns.” I never stated anything about everyone wanting to be a “Persian.”

By the way, if you’re reference to ‘Persian culture’ and labelling it as one of "fornication" is your sly away of attacking my ‘Khurasani culture’ indirectly, then I won’t return your insult. Firstly because if I insult you as one Pashtun, I will insult every decent Pashtun I know or don’t know. Secondly your crude and naive portrayal of a whole culture as one of fornication says a lot about your intelligence and perhaps personal insecurities. Your desperate claim that Pashtun contribution to ‘Persian culture’ has been to supposedly eliminate fornication says a lot about Pashtun contribution to my culture, or the lack there of it!

Every aspect of my culture and actions of my people are proudly on display in the pages of history. The short comings of any petty individual are a pinch of salt in an ocean of morality, piety, nobility, knowledge, chivalry and contributions to Islam and the broader region that is my culture, from pre-Islamic times to today.
Anyhow, I won’t hijack this thread about Wardakis lol

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

I’m aware of the city vs rural divide amongst Pashtuns. The same schism exists amongst city Tajiks of Herat, Mazar, and Kabul and the country Tajiks living outside of these three cities. Tajiks also looked down at the Persianzed Pashtuns and until today refer to them as ‘Naqileen’ which rough translates to imitators/unauthentic/alien.

However, the people who told me this about Wardags were Mashriqi, not Persianzed Pashtuns. I don’t know how much of what they said had to do with perhaps their personal/tribal prejudices. They were from Nangarhar but they said Wardag are not considered Pashtuns by the eastern Pashtuns and that Noorzai are not considered Abdali amongst the Adbali Pashtuns.

It seems everyone has a stereotype about anyone in Afghanistan.

Salam Khidr

Got a few questions for you if you dont mind answering

1. I always thought Naqileen referred to "usurpers" as in the Pashtuns that came onto Non Pashtun land to control it, but youre saying theres a cultural definition to it (ie. they spoke persian but werent persian)?

2. Im very confused about the term "Tajik". What is your view on this title, is it a historically accurate term? Can all farsi zabana outside of Aimaqs, Qizilbash and Hazara be lumped under this umbrella term?

3. What does Mashriqi mean?

BTW, Ive never heard of Wardag being considered non Pashtun, and I have never heard of Noozais being considered non Durranai.

[Khidr]

Salam Khidr

Got a few questions for you if you dont mind answering

1. I always thought Naqileen referred to "usurpers" as in the Pashtuns that came onto Non Pashtun land to control it, but youre saying theres a cultural definition to it (ie. they spoke persian but werent persian)?

2. Im very confused about the term "Tajik". What is your view on this title, is it a historically accurate term? Can all farsi zabana outside of Aimaqs, Qizilbash and Hazara be lumped under this umbrella term?

3. What does Mashriqi mean?

BTW, Ive never heard of Wardag being considered non Pashtun, and I have never heard of Noozais being considered non Durranai.

Wasalaam Kakar Saheb,

1.
See based on my own information (and I like to think I have a decent knowledge of the social-political-cultural dynamics of Afghanistan lol) Pashtuns in north were either referred to as “Awghan/Aughan” or Naqileen or in some minor cases by their tribe name - if they came from a ‘prominent tribe’ such as Mohmadzayee or Barakzai or Popal or Nasher.

Awghan were those who still lived a very ‘Pashtun way of life’ in the villages of the north and spoke Pashto. So their identity was blatantly obvious to the Tajiks based on their ‘Pashto’ just like the identity of Hazara and Uzbek was obvious based on physical features. Awghan is still widely used in the north to refer to Pashtuns, you will rarely hear the word “Pashtun.”


Naqileen were those Pashtuns, whose ‘Pashtun-ness’ was less obvious, who spoke Farsi, played Buzkashi, listened to Farsi music/poetry and all those other things, and were for all intents and purposes Tajiks culturally except they were Pashtun...if that make sense? However they were referred to as Naqileen, sometimes in jest or derogation or other times innocently for informative purposes to identity one's ethnicity and state a certain someone was not a Tajik. This does not mean an Etemadi or Mohmadzayee or some 'Naqileen' would have called themself a Naqileen, it was more of a case of others calling them that.


2.
As for Tajik identity. Historically, Tazik was a word that natives of Khurasan/Afghanistan and Persian called the Northern Arabs.
When Islam came and the natives starting converting to "the religion of the northern arabs" the non-converts natives referred to the converted natives in spite as ‘Tazik.’ Eventually as the majority of the natives became Muslim, and the Turks came and invaded, they referred to any native Muslim as Tadjik.


I’m personally against the use of the word Tajik, since its immediate connation is that we are somehow immigrants from the Republic of Tajikistan.

However, from a legal and superficial perspective, it has become a useful umbrella under which the native ancient sedentary population of Afghanistan, who share the same culture, history, language and blood, can be politically grouped under and unite, from Herati to Mazari to Shamaliwal to Kabuli.


I must also say that the word Tajik as an ethnic identify can never raise the same emotions of unity and identity that Pukhtun or Hazara can amongst their people, because sedentary people never saw themselves as a ‘broad ethnic group’ but rather as a native of their specific small manteqa/region. i.e. Kohistani, Balkhi or Heravi or Ghaznavi, Taliqani or Kabuli. I would much rather prefer us to call ourselves Khurasani as opposed to Tajik, since that word does give us ‘goosebumps’ of pride and does match the emotive appeal that Pukhton or Hazara has on their people. So Khurasani is a better reflection of what unites us as people than the word ‘Tajik.’

This is not to say Khurasan means Tajik. But rather that the identity and culture of today’s Tajiks are due to the Khurasan era.


3.
Mashriqi is the name of the province consiting of Laghman, Nangarhar and a few others. For me its easy to distinguish between a Junoobi (Southern) Pashtun and an Eastern (Mashriqi) Pashtun but very hard to tell from which specific province they are from. So an easterner is Mashriqi and southerner is Junoobi.

Once again, my sincere apologise to the ‘Wardaki ha ye gerami’ lol for yet again hijacking their thread.

[Catya Sher]

Back to Amin Wardak for a second.

While waiting to get more definitive info, I will post this interview excerpt from a year ago with some French organization.

It supports what I wrote originally about his preference to be back in his home rather than living in France.
HOWEVER! there may be some new angles here.
[Sk may be right, more than I had realized at the time.]

Also, this rules out the return with militias at his back to help in the victory over bad forces currently present in the country...too bad.
It was a good idea, Unknown.
I'm going to take your name off the ticket. There are better plans for you.

A.W. – Ma famille, mes amis y vivent toujours. C’est ma patrie, ma mère. Depuis que je l’ai quittée, pour quelques mois comme je le croyais alors, je n’ai qu’un rêve : retourner définitivement en Afghanistan. Mais avec un sens des responsabilités, je dois continuer la lutte, défendre la liberté avec une arme beaucoup plus forte : la parole. »
octobre 17th, 2009 at 10:26

He says: "My family, my friends still live there [Afghanistan].
It is my native country, my mother.
Since I left it, for some months...I have had only one dream: to return definitively to Afghanistan.
But with a sense of some responsibilities, that I have to continue the struggle, defend liberty with a stronger weapon: the word."
Oct 17, 2009

[Fahd]

thanx catya
keep it up




eid mubrak to evry one lol

[Fahd]

YouTube - Ey Sarbaza Yara Patriotic Pashto Sandara For Afghanistan And Pashtunistan

share it here becuase it mean to us what those leader did and keep doing (not all of them heheh )