Are Tajiks with past Pashtun or Afghan root/tribal names are considered Pashtuns?

[Shayesta]

^ I know all this and I am seriously not bothered about what you consider yourself. My forefathers were said to be Kohistanis while I don't speak a word of Kohistani, and my grandmothers are both Tajiks while they never spoke a word of Dari with their kids and grandchildren. You were giving examples of why you are not a Pukhtoon 'any more' and I disagree with your opinion and have stated my opinion as in way I disagree. And I am sure you know what I am talking about.

[Nick]

^ I know all this and I am seriously not bothered about what you consider yourself. My forefathers were said to be Kohistanis while I don't speak a word of Kohistani, and my grandmothers are both Tajiks while they never spoke a word of Dari with their kids and grandchildren. You were giving examples of why you are not a Pukhtoon 'any more' and I disagree with your opinion and have stated my opinion as in way I disagree. And I am sure you know what I am talking about.

My forefathers were said to be Kohistanis while I don't speak a word of Kohistani, and my grandmothers are both Tajiks while they never spoke a word of Dari with their kids and grandchildren. You were giving examples of why you are not a Pukhtoon 'any more' and I disagree with your opinion and have stated my opinion as in way I disagree. And I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Seriously don't get me wrong I don't know what in the world you are talking about. First of all you some how have odd claims about your backround, and I believe we have discussed before but you were never clear to why and how could your backround be Tajik from Kandahar and yet you know its tajik but you people never spoke Dari and nor your forefathers. That's same situation as mine but I know my backround because I belong to Afghan tribe of Ahmadzai, and Ghura Khel so here I know my tribe perhabs majority of Ghura khel are Dari speakers except those in Pakistan, and Ahmadzai as we all know are majority are nationalist pashtuns. Where as in your situation was unique, which is why I asked you for further info, I remember asking you were ur forefathers from "mughali" group who once resided in Kandahar or belong to Hazara Sunni group or are your forefathers from Persi Qazalbash or Daikhundi Hazara group? Cause these are minorities of Kandahar who sometimes are considered "Tajiks" of Kandahar because they have no tribal backround and they also speak Dari. But in your situation it was "Pashtu" is what they spoke, perhabs in a mid-stage of converting into "Pashtun". Anyways whatever it was I was confused cause Tajiks have no tribal system, as you notice how I linto 10 groups, but also many westerners tried to find a common ground or an homogeneous commonality, but other than Language there was nothing else so it ended up as a broad identity open for anyone non-Pashtu. This made me think that maybe you are Turkistani or Tajikitani group of immigrants.

Anyways its all because you have never decleared what kind of Tajik your grandparents belong to.

Here once again you are giving us some info that your grandparents never spoke Dari but yet they are Kohistani. True that Kohistanis have been given different identity and sometimes confusingly "Tajik" has been labled on them as well as Nuristanis and Pamiris etc. Now the question that comes to my head is that Kohistanis are 2."Afghan Tajiks" as in short I have mentioned nickname "Swatis" they don't speak Farsi. I mean a class of people that also practice tribalism but somewhat different from modern Afghan tribalism such as daughters in Marriages are way too different and some of their believes and practices are unIslamic as well.
Anyways its ok I understand you maybe confused however Kohistanis are by any means not related to any group outside Afghanistan. Kohistanis have many tribes with many older Daric langauges many of which have been disappeared.

[Master Khan]

I thought that Pashtun blood is not enough, that Pashtun identity only from the mothers side really means nothing. Am I right?

yes your dad side is what you really are, if your dad is Pashtun then you are pashtun.
The mother leaves her family to be with the husband and become like his family.
but for me Langauge and blood is important.

[Nick]

Nick jaan,

In my opinion and the point that makes sense to me would be that if you possess Pashtun blood, no one can take that away from you. If you have the blood in your veins, you are a Pashtun. Learning a language is secondary and you without realizing have contradicted yourself.


I await for your reply.

In my opinion and the point that makes sense to me would be that if you possess Pashtun blood, no one can take that away from you. If you have the blood in your veins, you are a Pashtun

That's what I am against.
Pride in Language means nothing to me. Language is a gift of God and as long as we have the tongues we have some sort of communication. Perhaps you might ask regarding my pride and honor towards languages, well lets put word into test of starving for food as a true Muslim and human being, I would do anything to gain food except killing, and selling my body or my Islamic pride. If I was to have a chance of living one more day with stomach full, I would sell Pashtu for my lunch and Dari for my dinner, but because I am muslim and having little knowledge of Arabic I would die and never sell for a single word of Arabic that which I heard in Quran.

By now you should of realized that despite having little or no connection to Arab world, or Arab Race for that matter and yet, this Afghan race is willing to die for a language simply because his religion (Islam) was originally recited (Quran) in that specific language (Arabic).

Having said this you might come back with an argument, that 'No Nick you are wrong! Pashtuns are homogeneous people and a very special race, protected and remained their purity along with their languages;'


My dear

Pashtun is not a racial group but rather a classified linguistic group defined and united by a language but in nature they are mixed tribes, and with conflicts feed hate and anger that has rooted deep in the pages of undiscovered history since Allah knows when.

However Pashtuns by Race are Afghan, and Afghans is a racial term defined and coincided by dozens of regional ethnic tribes, and clans, that share many commonalities that brings them together such as..

Common tribal affiliation that connects many tribes and clans into a mega tribe or super tribe, sometimes genealogical, sometimes mythical and sometimes influenced by foreign bogus claims, which has become famous nowadays thanks to Shia of 1500s false crap and unaware Pashtuns who were uneducated and yet accepted the Shia proposal such as Alizai (Children of Ali) Musazai (Children of Prophet Musa), Yusufzai (Children of Prophet Yusuf), Etc.

Common code and conducts of the tribes that is shared with next door enemy tribes or friendly tribes. Such Codes and conduct have been defined by Pashtu speakers since 17th century as “Pashtuniwali” by far has been recorded by British and has been Famous nowadays. Alternative older or different names include Afghanyat, Avghanwali, Pakhtuniwali, Khostiwali, Pakhtyawali. etc

Common traditional dress such as Shalwar/Lunge/pakhol. Almost all of modern Region of greater afghan Zamen which include lands beyond Afghan borders. Every region has it own culture and traditional dress, the common dress and fabrics in old days defined one society from another as it has today the Polish, Germans, Slavic, Indics, Egyptians, Parsis and Arabs, and likewise the Afghans have their own, which has penetrated most of South Asia since pre-mogolian era and post Timurid era Afghans have always ruled South Asia.

Common Psychological mentality proven to be true especially during foreign invasions which brought divided tribes united simply to defeat foreigners. Pages of history has been proven this fact, from Archeamanids to have Greeks and from Sassan-Parthians to Khawarism-Safivad, British and Russians every invader was opposed by Afghans in the same matter Religion (Islam) was not the common ground and nor the language (Pashtu,), but rather the warrior bloodline and tribal society that Afghan tribes have build has defeated all of these invaders.

Common Biological features although I shell not mention refren from being called Racist, this but for some reason an Afghan can always be recognized by their Afghan brothers. Despite so much intermixing with Arabs, and Indics the Afghan society as a whole still has common features that can be defined by racialogical studies. Perhabs as a Muslim I shell not enter this but all I have to say is that you know what I mean.

If you have the blood in your veins, you are a Pashtun

You are A Pashtun when you born as a Pashtu, live Pashtu and die with Pashtu ways of life, by this "Pashtu" I do not mean a Code or Race, but rather the practice of Pashtun society's main component which is Pashtu language. If you born Pashtu, and don’t live as a Pashtun makes no sense to be called Pashtun! does it?

If true then we shell also give respect to Iranian Porn stars who still claim to be devoted Iranian Muslims and considers their work as their everyday job profession. The Fact that she was born as a Muslim and shame as Iranian, she can always be Iranian since no-one can change her roots, and a slap to me for bring this up, but she never lived as a muslim, still be considered a Muslim? It doesn’t make sense? Or Does it?

Your blood does not tell your linguistic root, nor your religion, but rather your practices and deeds that counts it defines you are your believe. I can be a muslim living in a Christian world, I can be a Pashtun living in Polish world but down on the road my children will be influenced by Christianity and Polish society.

Please try to understand Language does give you an identity until the time you live your life, but after some years your descendents are no longer to carry your language. Its the society that carries the languages, if the society is a major or large by means of population, then it can polarize the people in that society to keep their languages, if its a minority population its matter of time before their tongues are converted.

[Nick]

I don't think the Isralite tribe theory is bogus. Pashtuns are either Scythians or descended from the Israelite tribes. Those two are conflicting, and there is evidence that supports both. The Israelite theory has more than just tribal names to lend credence to it (many customs for example)

My dear I know about Scythians, I have been in involved long ago in the Cyber world behind such proposals.
You tell me what you know of Scythians? and what you know of Israelites. And i will bring some light to that as well.

[Shayesta]

Seriously don't get me wrong I don't know what in the world you are talking about.

But still managed to write an essay as a response? LOL, just kidding. :P

Yet you know its tajik but you people never spoke Dari and nor your forefathers.

Correction; My forefathers did speak Dari but not as a first language. My grandmothers are Tajiks and even my parents' grandmothers were said to be Tajiks who did speak Dari, but not with their kids and grandkids.

That's same situation as mine but I know my backround because I belong to Afghan tribe of Ahmadzai.

Funny enough, even when my father's great grandfather came to Laghman from Kandahar, he came as an Ahmadzai as well. I do know about my background as far as my father's great grandfather's great grandfather goes, but I couldn't be bothered to go even further than that. Though, I still can never be sure what exactly my ethnic background is and that's why speak the language we have been spoken for at least centuries. But you are 100% about your background and therefore no confusion should be able to call yourself a 'Farsiwaan' instead of a Pukhtoon, right?

I remember asking you were ur forefathers from "mughali" group who once resided in Kandahar or belong to Hazara Sunni group or are your forefathers from Persi Qazalbash or Daikhundi Hazara group?

This is what I know about my forefathers, hope its not too confusing; My father's great grandfather came to Laghman, while great grandfather of my father's great grandfather was said to have lived in Kandahar for generations. And before their time in Laghman and Kandahar, my 'other' forefathers were said to have resided in Kohistan area. So, how many centuries ago could that be?

True that Kohistanis have been given different identity and sometimes confusingly "Tajik" has been labled on them as well as Nuristanis and Pamiris etc.

Though, nor Kohistanis and nor Nurestanis consider themselves Tajiks. Farsiwaan, yes, same wise how many Kohistanis ended up speaking Pukhto, but definitely not Tajiks/Persians.