When did you become Khan?

[زده کوونکی]

Can someone please elaborate on how/when the Pashtun people adopted the Turko-Mongol title of "Khan" (Khaqan) and how South Asians in general began to associate this title (now predominantly just a given or even family name outside tribal areas) specifically with the Pashtuns, to the point where they make idiotic statements like "how come you're Pathan but your last name isn't Khan?" or "all Pathans came from Mongolia, they arirved with Genghis Khan"

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

FACT: In Afghanistan the "Khan" name isn't very common.

[زده کوونکی]

FACT: In Afghanistan the "Khan" name isn't very common.

I'm aware. Its more of an Paki and Indian thing but for them apparently its like another word for "Afghan" or "Pathan". When someone says "Khan sahib" you bet its a Pashtun they're referring to. Also they will address you as "Khan" as if its your actual first name.

Maybe it has something to do with the Mughals. They bestowed all kinds of titles on the people they liked. Akbar renamed Ali Quli as "Sher Afghan Khan" best name ever imo

[maneatinglizard]

We wuz khanz, that’s how.

[زده کوونکی]

We wuz khanz, that’s how.

That's like Uzbeks saying they are born leaders because we were "Beks" (Bek/Baig/Bey - also used as a family name in the same region) because "Uz" (o'z) means self and "Bek" is also a noble title so Uzbek means "Self-ruler".

There were and are some great Khans (real leaders) among Pashtuns but seriously, not everyone is a Khan. In Turko-Mongol terms, the warriors are "yigit" or "bagatur" but there is only one 'Khagan" whom they must obey. If every individual is a Khan there would be no need for a designated title and also, there would be total chaos in an already autonomous nomadic culture.

[Friends of Baloch]

Can someone please elaborate on how/when the Pashtun people adopted the Turko-Mongol title of "Khan" (Khaqan) and how South Asians in general began to associate this title (now predominantly just a given or even family name outside tribal areas) specifically with the Pashtuns, to the point where they make idiotic statements like "how come you're Pathan but your last name isn't Khan?" or "all Pathans came from Mongolia, they arirved with Genghis Khan"

Khan is just an honorific that has passed down over several hundred years from Mongols into various other cultures, mainly in Central Asia and Iran first (but now pretty much extinct in Iran as a military title and honorific), then India later. It's use as a surname by Pashtuns in British India probably happened because British introduced and formalized the concept of a surname whereas before not everybody had a standard one or even bothered to have one at all. Some people on the other hand took multiple surnames over time or changed them several times over their life. Passing down a single surname through family wasnt common in many places of the World until the 20th century.

For South Asian Muslims particularly places with historically heavy concentration of "low castes" like Punjab it has been noted that Dalits and other Hindu low castes tended to take up honorifics like 'Khan' upon their conversion to Islam to replace their original Hindu names which identified the 'caste' they belonged to in the hopes that this would move them up the social ladder in some kind of desperate attempt to fabricate their ancestry as being linked to foreigners and not the Dalits and 'Shudras' that they truly are. But right up until the 'partition' of Bundjab these fabrications never worked and the so callled 'upper caste' Hindus of Punjab still treated these converted Dalit "Khans" as if they were still the same Dalit "Hindu" they originally were.

As a small example skip below to 8:00 mins to see what Bundjabi Hindu guy says and then skip to 8:55 mins and see what the old paki says about what life was like for Bundjabi Muslim in pre-partition Lawh0re:

[زده کوونکی]

Khan is just an honorific that has passed down over several hundred years from Mongols into various other cultures, mainly in Central Asia and Iran first (but now pretty much extinct in Iran as a military title and honorific), then India later. It's use as a surname by Pashtuns in British India probably happened because British introduced and formalized the concept of a surname whereas before not everybody had a standard one or even bothered to have one at all. Some people on the other hand took multiple surnames over time or changed them several times over their life. Passing down a single surname through family wasnt common in many places of the World until the 20th century.

For South Asian Muslims particularly places with historically heavy concentration of "low castes" like Punjab it has been noted that Dalits and other Hindu low castes tended to take up honorifics like 'Khan' upon their conversion to Islam to replace their original Hindu names which identified the 'caste' they belonged to in the hopes that this would move them up the social ladder in some kind of desperate attempt to fabricate their ancestry as being linked to foreigners and not the Dalits and 'Shudras' that they truly are. But right up until the 'partition' of Bundjab these fabrications never worked and the so callled 'upper caste' Hindus of Punjab still treated these converted Dalit "Khans" as if they were still the same Dalit "Hindu" they originally were.

As a small example skip below to 8:00 mins to see what Bundjabi Hindu guy says and then skip to 8:55 mins and see what the old paki says about what life was like for Bundjabi Muslim in pre-partition Lawh0re:

Very informed post. Minnatwaram

[Pakthun345]

Khan

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

"Khan" is a Turko-Mongol title and name.
However, there are equivalent titles in other ethnicities.

1) We have "Hanover" which was a princely house of Germany and royal House of Britain.
2) We have the Chinese "Qin" and "Han" dynasty.

Pashtuns and Pakthuns had titles before "Khan".

Manana

[Pakthun345]

Lahore/Lahoris

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

We use the Avestan -ya suffix in names.
There is "Paktiya" province in Afghanistan.
We say "Lorya" for "Lahori".
We say "Punjabiya" for "Punjabi".
We say "Sindya" for "Sindhi".
We say "Kashmirya" for "Kashmiri".

In Avestan there are names such as: Arshya, Athwya, Humaya, Naptya, Turiya.

Manana

[زده کوونکی]

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

We use the Avestan -ya suffix in names.
There is "Paktiya" province in Afghanistan.
We say "Lorya" for "Lahori".
We say "Punjabiya" for "Punjabi".
We say "Sindya" for "Sindhi".
We say "Kashmirya" for "Kashmiri".

In Avestan there are names such as: Arshya, Athwya, Humaya, Naptya, Tuiriya.

Manana

Interesting. In my Urdu dialect we have add the same "-iya" and also "-uwa" to the end of names.

"Hamro bhai-ya Jamshed-uwa ke ma-iya ke sange baithal raha"
My brother-iya was sitting with Jamshed-uwa's mother-iya.

"Bhauji rasoi-iya ma makhan-uwa khoje"
Sister in law searches for butter-uwa in the kitchen-iya.

[Pakthun345]

Turiya

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

I misspelt "Turiya" as "Tuiriya". I have corrected it.

Dear brother Zdah-Kawunkaey is the "ya" or "iya" in Awadhi?
Or is this from your Pashto?

Manana

[زده کوونکی]

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

I misspelt "Turiya" as "Tuiriya". I have corrected it.

Dear brother Zdah-Kawunkaey is the "ya" or "iya" in Awadhi?
Or is this from your Pashto?

Manana

Walaikum salaam

Brother - its a common feature of Awadhi/Bhojpuri and other Bihari languages.

O Womaniya Full Song Gangs Of Wasseypur | Gangs Of Wasseypur | Manoj Bajpai, Reema Sen - YouTube

Song: "woman-iya"

[Sarbani]

Assalamu alaykum and hello,

We use the Avestan -ya suffix in names.
There is "Paktiya" province in Afghanistan.
We say "Lorya" for "Lahori".
We say "Punjabiya" for "Punjabi".
We say "Sindya" for "Sindhi".
We say "Kashmirya" for "Kashmiri".

In Avestan there are names such as: Arshya, Athwya, Humaya, Naptya, Turiya.

Manana

The "-ya" is never used. It's either "-e" (singular) or "-yan" (plural). So Punjabi (singular) would be "Punjabe" and Punjabis (plural) would be "Punjabyan".

[Sarbani]

Khan is just an honorific that has passed down over several hundred years from Mongols into various other cultures, mainly in Central Asia and Iran first (but now pretty much extinct in Iran as a military title and honorific), then India later. It's use as a surname by Pashtuns in British India probably happened because British introduced and formalized the concept of a surname whereas before not everybody had a standard one or even bothered to have one at all. Some people on the other hand took multiple surnames over time or changed them several times over their life. Passing down a single surname through family wasnt common in many places of the World until the 20th century.

For South Asian Muslims particularly places with historically heavy concentration of "low castes" like Punjab it has been noted that Dalits and other Hindu low castes tended to take up honorifics like 'Khan' upon their conversion to Islam to replace their original Hindu names which identified the 'caste' they belonged to in the hopes that this would move them up the social ladder in some kind of desperate attempt to fabricate their ancestry as being linked to foreigners and not the Dalits and 'Shudras' that they truly are. But right up until the 'partition' of Bundjab these fabrications never worked and the so callled 'upper caste' Hindus of Punjab still treated these converted Dalit "Khans" as if they were still the same Dalit "Hindu" they originally were.

As a small example skip below to 8:00 mins to see what Bundjabi Hindu guy says and then skip to 8:55 mins and see what the old paki says about what life was like for Bundjabi Muslim in pre-partition Lawh0re:

Many Indian Muslims (not necessarily low castes) adopted the name 'Khan' as a way to try to boost their self-esteem and now they like to LARP as Pashtuns.

[Sarbani]

Interesting. In my Urdu dialect we have add the same "-iya" and also "-uwa" to the end of names.

"Hamro bhai-ya Jamshed-uwa ke ma-iya ke sange baithal raha"
My brother-iya was sitting with Jamshed-uwa's mother-iya.

"Bhauji rasoi-iya ma makhan-uwa khoje"
Sister in law searches for butter-uwa in the kitchen-iya.

Sorry to inform you, but those suffixes are from Sanskrit. The "-iya" and "-uwa" suffixes don't exist in Pashto. Besides, the context is completely different to the one given by the other user.