Indian Muslims of Arab descent are superior to those of Mughal and Pathan descent

[Samandri]

Prominent Indian scholar Ashraf Ali Thanwai (1863 – 1943) from Deoband school of thought, said that Indian people of Arab descent are superior to those of Mughal and Pashtun descent. In the topic of "Equality of lineage" , "Kufu" (compatibility/match) of his book "Bahishti Zewar", he says ;

"The Shariah has taken great precautions in ensuring that nikah with an incompatible person or a person of a lower social standing does not take place...."

"Equality in the lineage is that the Shaykh, Sayyid, Ansari and Alawi (i.e people of Arab descent) are all equal to each other.........".

"The Mughals and Pathans are regarded as one nation and are not of same class as that of the Sayyids and Shaikhs. If the daughter of a Sayyid or Shaykh gets married with one of them , it will be said that she married someone who is of a lower social standing than her."

"Equality in being a Muslim is only considered among Mughals, Pathans, and other non-Arab nations. There is no consideration of this among the Shaykhs , Sayyids, Alawis, and Ansaris...."

Note: Ashraf Ali Thanwai himself belonged to Farooqi Shaikh caste of Indians.

Reference: Bahishti Zewar, English translation by Maulana Muhammad Muhammadi, pp.413-414

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Ashraf Ali Thanwi is rather strange....why does everyone give Behishti Zewar as a wedding gift? This is cancer.

[Samandri]

Deoband movement originating from India became greatly popular in Pashtun areas under British raj in early 20th century. This caused integration of present-day Khyber Pakhtunkhwa with India and moved it away from Afghanistan. The non-sense by Ashraf Ali Thanwi is unique in the sense that he goes beyond the traditional reverence for Syed and even declares every Indian man of Arab descent to be superior in lineage to Indians of non-Arab origins. I wonder from where he got this idea? it feels to me his ruling is based on some work of Arab jurists of Umayyid or Abbasid periods.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I know so many ethically questionable people who claim to be Sayyids, which makes this stuff pretty much nonsense. Furthermore genetic studies show most of these Indians who claim Arab lineages are farcical.

More likely if he has any source for this, it comes from the Ummayads who wanted to keep the Mawalis separate from the Arab rulers since Arab women very often married with the 'Ajam.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=19435]Iblis_Efreetzai[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION]

The respect that Syeds are given is not something that is baseless. This does not mean that a Syed can do every wrong and he will still be thought of as a good person , its only that their lineage is considered noble.

However , I am not an authority on Islam , hence I won't debate this issue.

[toughpashtun]

[MENTION=18842]Samandri[/MENTION]

On a sidenote , there are many Pashto speaking Syeds throughout KPK.
Usually their last name is Shah.Such as Syed Mumtaz Shah , Syed Ghufran Shah etc.
Some of them also add Ali before Shah. Like Syed Umair Ali Shah , Syed Habib Ali Shah.

These people are not Pashtuns?

[Kakar-Wardak]

Deobandi have many weird fatawa, although many will not admit it but many deobandi are salafised, look at the way they celebrate Ahmed barelvi and shah ismaili who were both among the first wahabies of India.

[Charsi Malang]

Anything to with Desiness, and a social hierarchy has to be involved. It's like Desis-and that includes Indians and Pakistanis cannot exist without some sort of inbuilt social scale even if they become Muslim. One has to be from a better "line" of Muslims.

[Samandri]

@Iblis_Efreetzai and @Samandri

The respect that Syeds are given is not something that is baseless. This does not mean that a Syed can do every wrong and he will still be thought of as a good person , its only that their lineage is considered noble.

However , I am not an authority on Islam , hence I won't debate this issue.

Ok , traditionally and historically Syeds have been given extra respect and privileges (which is wrong practice), thats why you see crores (tens of millions) of Syed claimants in subcontinent . But you should pay more attention to what i shared. Ashraf Ali Thanwai is declaring any person of supposed Arab descent , not just Syeds, to be superior in lineage to Indians of non-Arab descent. This is not coming from you and me, but from a book of fiqh in which the respected scholar is actually implying that Arabs have been given God given superiority over non-Arabs. Deobandi ulemas do taqleed and copy stuff from their predecessors so it needs to be investigated from where this non-sense is originally from.

[Nertj]

Ok , traditionally and historically Syeds have been given extra respect and privileges (which is wrong practice), thats why you see crores (tens of millions) of Syed claimants in subcontinent . But you should pay more attention to what i shared. Ashraf Ali Thanwai is declaring any person of supposed Arab descent , not just Syeds, to be superior in lineage to Indians of non-Arab descent. This is not coming from you and me, but from a book of fiqh in which the respected scholar is actually implying that Arabs have been given God given superiority over non-Arabs. Deobandi ulemas do taqleed and copy stuff from their predecessors so it needs to be investigated from where this non-sense is originally from.

these idiots didn't realize racial supremacy undermines islam. the prophet is simply a servant of God, nothing more, nothing less. the messenger could've been born into any race or nation, wouldn't have mattered. only the message matters.

[ذو الفقار]

Deobandi school is too problematic. Darul Ulum Deoband is dominated by the Hayati stream. Their doctrines are absurd and even idolatrous. Pashtuns and Afghans should move away from Deobandism and embrace the Maslak of Panjpir which is purist and monotheist Islam.

Let me tell you a story of this Ashraf Thanwi. One day he says he was peeing. Then his older brother came and pissed on his head. Then one day Ashraf Thanwi saw his older brother peeing, so he enacted revenge by doing the same thing (peeing on his brother's head). Then Ashraf's father caught him red handed doing this and punished him. Ashraf tried to explain that his older brother did the same to him before, but his older brother denied, and so only Ashraf was punished because he was caught red handed while his older brother was left off the hook. (Malfoozaat Hakeem ul Ummat v. 4 p.262)



Now this shows the kind of environment that stupid guy (Ashraf Thanwi) grew up in and some of his own admitted bad and disgusting habits. Why should such a ridiculous person be respected as a holy saint of Islam?

[Samandri]

Deobandi school is too problematic. Darul Ulum Deoband is dominated by the Hayati stream. Their doctrines are absurd and even idolatrous. Pashtuns and Afghans should move away from Deobandism and embrace the Maslak of Panjpir which is purist and monotheist Islam.

Let me tell you a story of this Ashraf Thanwi. One day he says he was peeing. Then his older brother came and pissed on his head. Then one day Ashraf Thanwi saw his older brother peeing, so he enacted revenge by doing the same thing (peeing on his brother's head). Then Ashraf's father caught him red handed doing this and punished him. Ashraf tried to explain that his older brother did the same to him before, but his older brother denied, and so only Ashraf was punished because he was caught red handed while his older brother was left off the hook. (Malfoozaat Hakeem ul Ummat v. 4 p.262)



Now this shows the kind of environment that stupid guy (Ashraf Thanwi) grew up in and some of his own admitted bad and disgusting habits. Why should such a ridiculous person be respected as a holy saint of Islam?

Stop trolling da Hindu bachay , they were just two kids.

[ذو الفقار]

Why you getting emotional and defending Deobandis and calling me a Hindu when you yourself wrote:

The non-sense by Ashraf Ali Thanwi

BTW, I'm only scratching the surface, I can expose the reality of this Thanwi and the other Deobandi "elders" and no Deobandi will be able to refute my academically.

[Samandri]

Why you getting emotional and defending Deobandis and calling me a Hindu when you yourself wrote:



BTW, I'm only scratching the surface, I can expose the reality of this Thanwi and the other Deobandi "elders" and no Deobandi will be able to refute my academically.

Idiot Hindu, i am just criticizing one of his particular opinion/ruling. While you are telling us that he was bad person because in his childhood he peed on the head of his older brother. Is some thing wrong with your MQM-ish head?.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

This is why I believe we should look towards the Mu'tazilah doctrine for insights because it really stresses what Islam should be from a rational perspective.