Pashtuns persecuting hazaras?

[Nekrofrost]

So a non pashtun argued with over "pashtun dominance" in afghanistan and how pashtuns are also reponsible for the hazara genocide(which ive always linked with the taliban mostly but she claimed it was more historical than that). So what do yall know about the topic? Is there any truth to that? Cuz i obviously considering i havent ever been to afghanistan

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

A distant cousin of mine married a Hazara lady, her family come from a certain tribe that were infamously associated with a group of Hazaras who were brutally persecuted but ultimately led an effective rebellion against the Amir

[Shapur]

To be honest Hazaras have been persecuted to a certain extent by Pashtun rulers. Afghanistan is a land with limited resources and its natural for conflicts to arise over limited resources. But Hazaras have a tendency to exagerate things like claiming they used to be 60% of Afghanistan's population before Abdur Rahman Khan massacred them. You have to remember it was Pashtuns of Hizbi Islami who stopped Masouds Jamiat party from massacring Hazaras in Afshar district of Kabul during civil war. My uncle who has passed away now was a Hizb e Islami commander in the north and gave refuge to up to 100 Hazaras when Taliban were looking for them around 1998 after the Hazaras rebelled against Taliban.

I would say there has been some bad blood due to competetion over resources, religious differences etc but not as much as some people say. The ancestors of Hazaras did not exactly come into Afghanistan in a peaceful manner themselves but thats history and things have moved on.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The Safavids forced many people to convert to Shiism. When the Safavids ruled the region currently known as Afghanistan, they oppressed everyone.

The Hazara's are predominantly Shia as a result of oppression against them. That by itself is now causing frictions with the Sunni majority.

Besides, historically, all minorities have suffered in various parts of the world. Therefore when Hazara's complain about persecution, it isn't all just lies and fabrications. But the way they like to portray it, is ideologically driven.

Because Pashtuns oppressed fellow Sunni Muslim Pashtuns. Some tribes massacred and looted other tribes. Similarly when Tajiks and Uzbeks had the ability they massacred Pashtuns and took their land and property.

But we are now in 2017. Hazara's are generally speaking better educated, they have better access to jobs and positions of power. Their leaders have been part of the government since 2001. They are extremely well organized and funded. They have numerous organizations and interest groups. A Hazara is chief editor of TOLO, one of the most important media outlet in Afghanistan and they dominate academia in Afghanistan.

Even in NGO's, a vast majority of the administrative staff and middle management are Hazara's.

If today any Hazara complains about being oppressed, they are just being dishonest. They want to use their historic disadvantage to create inequality where they can oppress others.

This is generally the problem with social justice warriors. Even if their grievances are genuine to a certain extent, what they eventually want to achieve is not justice. They want want to be empowered to oppress to get back at their oppressors.

[Firdousi]

To be honest Hazaras have been persecuted to a certain extent by Pashtun rulers. Afghanistan is a land with limited resources and its natural for conflicts to arise over limited resources. But Hazaras have a tendency to exagerate things like claiming they used to be 60% of Afghanistan's population before Abdur Rahman Khan massacred them. You have to remember it was Pashtuns of Hizbi Islami who stopped Masouds Jamiat party from massacring Hazaras in Afshar district of Kabul during civil war. My uncle who has passed away now was a Hizb e Islami commander in the north and gave refuge to up to 100 Hazaras when Taliban were looking for them around 1998 after the Hazaras rebelled against Taliban.

I would say there has been some bad blood due to competetion over resources, religious differences etc but not as much as some people say. The ancestors of Hazaras did not exactly come into Afghanistan in a peaceful manner themselves but thats history and things have moved on.

Thats utter BS Shapur. Those behind massacres in Afshar were mainly Pashtuns from Itihad-e Islami led by Sayyaf. It was Massoud forces who stopped the massacres:

400 Bad Request

Massoud did a good job in Afshar. Hazaras were shelling the city. Dozens of Iranian officials were captured in that operation and many others killed. He taught them a lesson.

I do agree regarding Hazaras. They are annoying AF.

[Nekrofrost]

This is interesting stuff. Also i wanted to ask whether there really is any pashtun dominance in afghanistan and its government or not? Cuz from most paki pashtuns you hear its not really all that true while i once asked a paktiawal friend of mine(lives in pakistan tho) and he told me that afghanistan is more pashtun than people in pak are made to believe so im still confused.

[Firdousi]

Massoud on Iran, Mazari and Hazaras. Good video.

Ahmad Shah Massoud about Iran - احمد شاه مسعود در مورد رژیم ایران - YouTube

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

This is interesting stuff. Also i wanted to ask whether there really is any pashtun dominance in afghanistan and its government or not? Cuz from most paki pashtuns you hear its not really all that true while i once asked a paktiawal friend of mine(lives in pakistan tho) and he told me that afghanistan is more pashtun than people in pak are made to believe so im still confused.

First of all, ethnic groups in Afghanistan are internally divided and don't act als monoliths. There are various warlords and strongmen from Pashtun background in the current government. Also, many communists currently in the Afghan police and armed forces are Pashtuns. Likewise, there are many Tajiks and Hazara's in the cabinet and other very important positions in the government.

The current power structure is designed to keep different ethnic groups involved in the government while tensions and hostilities among them are perpetuated.

While there are many rich and powerful Pashtuns in the government, Pashtuns are discriminated against by law enforcement and armed forces. Some of the oppression against Pashtuns in rural areas is facilitated by fellow Pashtuns.

That's because people care more about their own personal interests than that of fellow human beings.

[Shapur]

Thats utter BS Shapur. Those behind massacres in Afshar were mainly Pashtuns from Itihad-e Islami led by Sayyaf. It was Massoud forces who stopped the massacres:

400 Bad Request

Massoud did a good job in Afshar. Hazaras were shelling the city. Dozens of Iranian officials were captured in that operation and many others killed. He taught them a lesson.

I do agree regarding Hazaras. They are annoying AF.

Not true, Sayyaf and Massoud were allies and Sayyaf has always been leaning towards Jamiat. Sayyaf was taking orders from Massoud and had direct contact with him. You can ask Hazaras about Massouds role in the massacre and they will clear it for you.

Check this article by RAWA
Is Ahmad Shah Masood a legitimate candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize?

There are other sources as well such as human rights watch which implicates Tajik Jamiat e Islami in the massacre of Hazaras in Afshar. When Tajiks carry out massacre, it is called punishing Spys or Iranian proxies but when Pashtuns do it it is called genocide or fascism.

[Firdousi]

Not true, Sayyaf and Massoud were allies and Sayyaf has always been leaning towards Jamiat. Sayyaf was taking orders from Massoud and had direct contact with him. You can ask Hazaras about Massouds role in the massacre and they will clear it for you.

Check this article by RAWA
Is Ahmad Shah Masood a legitimate candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize?

There are other sources as well such as human rights watch which implicates Tajik Jamiat e Islami in the massacre of Hazaras in Afshar. When Tajiks carry out massacre, it is called punishing Spys or Iranian proxies but when Pashtuns do it it is called genocide or fascism.

Afshar was a joint operation but that doesn't mean Jamiat was behind the massacres. According the link I share with you it were Pashtuns mainly those who committed the crimes. if you believe otherwise prove it. Burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

RAWA is a biased source. They have a political agenda. Not reliable at all. Please share that HRW report.

Hold your horses, Shapur. You are smart enough to know that Pashtuns have been historically oppressors not oppressed. Its Pashtuns who carried out hoorible crimes against non Pashtuns, its Pashtuns those who want to impose their will on non Pashtuns. Its Pashtuns those who brought thousands of their kin to non Pashtuns land in order Pashtunize the country... and so on.

You shouldn't expect too much sympathy from our side after all you didn't have any toward us. Dont play the victim card.

[Shapur]

Afshar was a joint operation but that doesn't mean Jamiat was behind the massacres. According the link I share with you it were Pashtuns mainly those who committed the crimes. if you believe otherwise prove it. Burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

RAWA is a biased source. They have a political agenda. Not reliable at all. Please share that HRW report.

Hold your horses, Shapur. You are smart enough to know that Pashtuns have been historically oppressors not oppressed. Its Pashtuns who carried out hoorible crimes against non Pashtuns, its Pashtuns those who want to impose their will on non Pashtuns. Its Pashtuns those who brought thousands of their kin to non Pashtuns land in order Pashtunize the country... and so on.

You shouldn't expect too much sympathy from our side after all you didn't have any toward us. Dont play the victim card.

Just a quote from the human rights watch article

Massoud’s forces were shooting at them. . . . They were firing into this street. Three times the street was hit. Seventeen people were killed—there were seventeen bodies lying in the street—we counted. The corpses were lying here in the streets. . . . Clearly they were civilians. Yes, it was clear: they had burqas, there were children. It was clear they were civilians.186

You can read the full article here
Afghanistan: Blood-Stained Hands: III. The Battle for Kabul: April 1992-March 1993


I am not saying Sayyafs forces were innocent but to blame Pashtuns for the actions of Sayyaf or his group is not right. Sayyafs group only represents a very small number of Pashtuns in Paghman and surrounding areas whilst Massoud is the national hero of millions of Tajiks and his party under his direct command massacred civilians.

RAWA is left leaning but it does a good job of exposing all warlords whatever their ethnicity.

[Firdousi]

Just a quote from the human rights watch article



You can read the full article here
Afghanistan: Blood-Stained Hands: III. The Battle for Kabul: April 1992-March 1993


I am not saying Sayyafs forces were innocent but to blame Pashtuns for the actions of Sayyaf or his group is not right. Sayyafs group only represents a very small number of Pashtuns in Paghman and surrounding areas whilst Massoud is the national hero of millions of Tajiks and his party under his direct command massacred civilians.

RAWA is left leaning but it does a good job of exposing all warlords whatever their ethnicity.

From your own source:

"..the predominately Sunni-Pashtun Ittihad forces (under Abdul Rabb al-Rasul Sayyaf) and the predominately Shi’a-Hazara Wahdat forces (under Abdul Ali Mazari) began skirmishing in west Kabul, shooting rockets at each other and engaging in street battles. Each sought to dislodge the other from various neighborhoods or government buildings which each force occupied."

"Numerous Iranian agents were assisting Wahdat forces, as Iran was attempting to maximize Wahdat’s military power and influence in the new government. Saudi agents of some sort, private or governmental, were trying to strengthen Sayyaf and his Ittihad faction to the same end."

Rare ceasefires, usually negotiated by Jamiat commanders, representatives of Mujaddidi or Rabbani, or officials from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), commonly collapsed within days. Compounding the problem, some of the other parties in Kabul periodically joined the fighting at various times, serving to intensify the conflict. Harakat forces sometimes joined the fight with Wahdat against Ittihad. After Wahdat attacked Jamiat positions in July 1992, and hit civilian areas around them, Massoud’s troops launched retaliatory artillery attacks on west Kabul (which likewise killed numerous civilians)

So basically your own source proves me right. I am not denying crimes committed by Jamiat. It was a war. What I am denouncing is crimes committed in a systematic way. Seems Hazaras and Pashtuns engaged in such practice.

Massoud was not a criminal nor a warlord. According to the Peshawar Accords signed by all major parties Massoud was the legitimate Defense Minister of Afghanistan. Those who didn't deliver their word were traitors according the law, this includes Hekmatyar, Dostum and Mazari. Massoud did not betray them, they betrayed the government. They signed an agreement but they didn't honor it. Period.

RAWA is only good at exposing warlords. Nothing wrong about this but you won't see them expose in the same way their fellow commie friends. RAWA reminds me of FEMEN: same annoying feminazis lecturing people all the time. No wonder Malali Joya is such a hypocrite person.

[Rocky99]

We should look forward to the future instead of focusing on the past.

[Elite Pakhtun]

**** you dude... I like the past.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Just kidding... yeah the future is probably worth paying attention to.