Tajiks, Farsiwan, and Persianized Pashtuns

[dawn]

Short-legs are mostly tenants and subjugates of Afghans and Uzbeks, this speaks volumes about the extent of Tajik history. Their pride, the Kohistanis of mountains , are also absent from history. We only hear about Uzbek rulers of Badakhshan.

Mongols raped many Tajik boys and men, mistaking them for women. With the feminine features, you Tajik boys are/were good only for one thing, Wear anklet and start dancing

The bachas we see on Afghanistan documentaries are mostly Tajiks?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Everyone who speaks Farsi in Afghanistan and is not Hazara nowadays is called Tajik. However this is false in reality there are three different types.

Do you even Afghan Brah? ...Seriously, everyone knows the difference between Farsi-speaking Pashtun and a Tajik. It's not like they've just completely melted away into another group identity. The Mohmadzi are still Mohmadzi.

1. Real Tajiks- Real Tajiks are those whos ancestors came across the Oxus during their russian occupation. Real Tajiks are a mix of Sogdians, Persian, and Turks.

I'm assuming what's being meant here is Bolsheviks? There was indeed an influx of some Tajiks beyond the Amu Darya during this time, but there's no doubt that the people primarily residing in Balkh were "Tajiks" and Uzbeks who are culturally ethnically similar to those afross the Amu Darya. Seriously. Where do you even come up with this stuff?

2. Farsiwan- These people have the same origins as Pashtuns, have been here just as long, and their just persianized Eastern Aryans.

What?

3. Persianized Pashtuns- Name speaks for itself really. Im guessing their mostly from areas like Kabul and Herat.

They're in many places, even some Pashtun dominated regions like Gardez and Ghazni, some people preferred Farsi because of trade and cultural advantages with the region. Some Jalalabadi people are also mainly Persian speaking, either because of educational background or custom. It's not the majority, but it exists.

These people are only counted as Tajik because the Russians wanted to use cultural similarities of Afghanistan and Tajikistan to their advantage.

That doesn't even make sense, and there doesn't seem to be any historical documentation that supports this. Furthermore there's a historical association between Northern regions of Afghanistan and Tajikistan, trade routes, social habits. ...The Russians didn't need to do anything to forge some relationship.

To bad us Afghans have been so easy to brainwash.

By our own bull**** mainly.

[Win Butler]

Pashtuns have nothing of their own. They lack of history so they need constantly to steal Persian heritage. Thats why they claim Rumi, Khorasan and Ghorids for themselves. They want to call them "Afghans" because Pashtun history is just made up fairy tails. Just look at the "greatest" Pashtun literature work ever created: Pata Khazzana. Forgery at its best. Hilarious lmao

This Afghanfootball might be the dumbest person on this forum. Apparently it's inconceivable to him that Rumi could have been born in Tajikistan because he thinks the modern borders of artificial nation-states have been in place since time immemorial and that our neighbors have nothing in common with us. He keeps citing "historians" with no credibility and claiming everyone and their grandfather was Pashtun. Pathetic.

Evidence That Rumi was Born in Tajikistan

^There you go.

[Firdousi]

This Afghanfootball might be the dumbest person on this forum. Apparently it's inconceivable to him that Rumi could have been born in Tajikistan because he thinks the modern borders of artificial nation-states have been in place since time immemorial and that our neighbors have nothing in common with us. He keeps citing "historians" with no credibility and claiming everyone and their grandfather was Pashtun. Pathetic.

Evidence That Rumi was Born in Tajikistan

^There you go.

Poor kid. That must be the biggest achievement of his miserably life lmao

Truth is always bitter. This people can not handle with the fact that Pashtun "culture" always has been a poor, barbaric, tribal and least developed thing and that their biggest and major contributions to humanity are nothing but violence, war and ignorance. They know this is true and since they lack of arguments they will come up with their typical racist BS: chinky mongols, short leg Tajiks and so on. I feel sad for them lol

[Aryana]

Pashtuns have nothing of their own. They lack of history so they need constantly to steal Persian heritage. Thats why they claim Rumi, Khorasan and Ghorids for themselves. They want to call them "Afghans" because Pashtun history is just made up fairy tails. Just look at the "greatest" Pashtun literature work ever created: Pata Khazzana. Forgery at its best. Hilarious lmao

What do you bacha baz Tajiks claim that isn't Persian/Iranian.

[Shapur]

What do you bacha baz Tajiks claim that isn't Persian/Iranian.

[MENTION=19433]Aryana[/MENTION]

Why do you care so much what farsiwans identify as? Its non of our business whether they like to be called Iranian, Tajik, farsiwan etc. Most Tajiks if you have ever been to Afghanistan are caucasian just like Pashtuns and in some cases even lighter than Pashtuns especially Badakhshanis etc. There are many Uzbeks and Hazaras who speak Farsi and they are clearly distinguishable from Tajiks in general. Ofcourse there are some mixed people but there are also mixed Pashtuns in the north. Only Tajiks in the extreme north of Tajikistan in places like Khujand show high mongolied blood and some in capital Dushanbe because its a cosmopolitan city so people from all over Tajikistan have settled there. Majority of people in Tajikistan are caucasian just like their counter parts in Afghanistan. Uzbeks only make up around 20% of Tajikistan population.
Majority of Pashtuns north of Hindukush have settled there in the last 300-400 years. Tajiks are the descendents of indigenous populations of these areas. This is a known fact and no amount of intellectual dishonesty can change that. There are high amounts of marriages between Tajiks and Pashtuns because they look similar as opposed to Uzbeks and Hazaras. All genetic tests have shown that Tajiks of Afghanistan cluster the closest to Pashtuns and that is because both are Eastern Iranics with pashtuns indigenous to the south of Hindukush and Tajiks north. These Tajiks are not farsi speaking Pashtuns as some claim but they share same roots as Pashtuns beccause are descendents of eastern iranics.

[Firdousi]

[MENTION=19433]Aryana[/MENTION]

Why do you care so much what farsiwans identify as? Its non of our business whether they like to be called Iranian, Tajik, farsiwan etc. Most Tajiks if you have ever been to Afghanistan are caucasian just like Pashtuns and in some cases even lighter than Pashtuns especially Badakhshanis etc. There are many Uzbeks and Hazaras who speak Farsi and they are clearly distinguishable from Tajiks in general. Ofcourse there are some mixed people but there are also mixed Pashtuns in the north. Only Tajiks in the extreme north of Tajikistan in places like Khujand show high mongolied blood and some in capital Dushanbe because its a cosmopolitan city so people from all over Tajikistan have settled there. Majority of people in Tajikistan are caucasian just like their counter parts in Afghanistan. Uzbeks only make up around 20% of Tajikistan population.
Majority of Pashtuns north of Hindukush have settled there in the last 300-400 years. Tajiks are the descendents of indigenous populations of these areas. This is a known fact and no amount of intellectual dishonesty can change that. There are high amounts of marriages between Tajiks and Pashtuns because they look similar as opposed to Uzbeks and Hazaras. All genetic tests have shown that Tajiks of Afghanistan cluster the closest to Pashtuns and that is because both are Eastern Iranics with pashtuns indigenous to the south of Hindukush and Tajiks north. These Tajiks are not farsi speaking Pashtuns as some claim but they share same roots as Pashtuns beccause are descendents of eastern iranics.

Don't take her too seriously. She is suffering from inferiority complex. She wants badly to be a Tajik but since we won't accept her as an equal she expresses in return hatred and frustration. Nothing new here. Move along.

BTW good points. 100% agree.

[Samandri]

@Aryana
All genetic tests have shown that Tajiks of Afghanistan cluster the closest to Pashtuns and that is because both are Eastern Iranics with pashtuns .

The looks, height , build of Tajiks , and their character, is very different from Pashtuns. Those Pashtuns, who have Tajik blood in them, feel closer to Tajiks. These Pashtuns-with-Tajik-blood find typical Pashtun look very different, and its them who find an Afridi or Kakar or Yousafzaey to be "Paki" looking. These Tajiki-Pashtuns also inherit Short stature , almond shaped eyes and female faces from their Tajik parent

If you people find Tajiks kith and kin because of skin color, then Dardics of Pakistan actually resemble Pashtuns more, not just in skin colour but also in facial features. In character, its Baloch who many times will remind you of a Pashtun.

[Shapur]

The looks, height , build of Tajiks , and their character, is very different from Pashtuns. Those Pashtuns, who have Tajik blood in them, feel closer to Tajiks. These Pashtuns-with-Tajik-blood find typical Pashtun look very different, and its them who find an Afridi or Kakar or Yousafzaey to be "Paki" looking. These Tajiki-Pashtuns also inherit Short stature , almond shaped eyes and female faces from their Tajik parent

If you people find Tajiks kith and kin because of skin color, then Dardics of Pakistan actually resemble Pashtuns more, not just in skin colour but also in facial features. In character, its Baloch who many times will remind you of a Pashtun.

The variation in build and physique also happens wthin Pashtuns tribes as well not just between Pashtun and Tajiks. Its just natural variation because of geography, climate, diet etc. The people of the plain whether Tajik or Pashtuns look different than the people of mountains. I feel close to Tajiks and Punjabi muslims the closest after fellow Pashtuns but I am fully Pashtun, then to kurds,.iranians, turks, arabs etc. I have lived Afghanistan/Pakistan and the UK and I have interacted with these people first hand and studied and worked with them. I can undrestand why a Pashtun living in Pakistan would feel closer to a Punjabi than a Tajik, its natural, they dont undrestand Farsi and dont have a sense of being from the same country. A pashtun from Afghanistan would feel closer to a Tajik than a Punjabi, because they dont undrestand Urdu/Punjabi and arent part of one nation state.
In terms of character/mannerisms, I would say Pashtuns are their own people and are different from both Tajiks and Punjabis because they are tribal and rural and dont have the sophisticated mannerisms and culture of Tajiks and Punjabis. But overall I would say Tajiks still resemble Pashtuns more in terms of looks and culture more than a Punjabi because Punjabis are Barelvi while Tajiks and Pashtuns arent. This is especially true for Pashtuns of Afghanistan.

Look at these northern alliance soldiers, do they look that different from Pashtuns?

Ahmad Shah Massoud Speech to his Countrymen - YouTube

[Samandri]

The variation in build and physique also happens wthin Pashtuns tribes as well not just between Pashtun and Tajiks. Its just natural variation because of geography, climate, diet etc. The people of the plain whether Tajik or Pashtuns look different than the people of mountains. I feel close to Tajiks and Punjabi muslims the closest after fellow Pashtuns but I am fully Pashtun, then to kurds,.iranians, turks, arabs etc. I have lived Afghanistan/Pakistan and the UK and I have interacted with these people first hand and studied and worked with them. I can undrestand why a Pashtun living in Pakistan would feel closer to a Punjabi than a Tajik, its natural, they dont undrestand Farsi and dont have a sense of being from the same country. A pashtun from Afghanistan would feel closer to a Tajik than a Punjabi, because they dont undrestand Urdu/Punjabi and arent part of one nation state.
In terms of character/mannerisms, I would say Pashtuns are their own people and are different from both Tajiks and Punjabis because they are tribal and rural and dont have the sophisticated mannerisms and culture of Tajiks and Punjabis. But overall I would say Tajiks still resemble Pashtuns more in terms of looks and culture more than a Punjabi because Punjabis are Barelvi while Tajiks and Pashtuns arent. This is especially true for Pashtuns of Afghanistan.

Look at these northern alliance soldiers, do they look that different from Pashtuns?

Ahmad Shah Massoud Speech to his Countrymen - YouTube

It appears to me you dont know any thing about Dardics. Did i mention any where that Pashtuns resemble Punjabis? read my post again.

[dawn]

The variation in build and physique also happens wthin Pashtuns tribes as well not just between Pashtun and Tajiks. Its just natural variation because of geography, climate, diet etc. The people of the plain whether Tajik or Pashtuns look different than the people of mountains. I feel close to Tajiks and Punjabi muslims the closest after fellow Pashtuns but I am fully Pashtun, then to kurds,.iranians, turks, arabs etc. I have lived Afghanistan/Pakistan and the UK and I have interacted with these people first hand and studied and worked with them. I can undrestand why a Pashtun living in Pakistan would feel closer to a Punjabi than a Tajik, its natural, they dont undrestand Farsi and dont have a sense of being from the same country. A pashtun from Afghanistan would feel closer to a Tajik than a Punjabi, because they dont undrestand Urdu/Punjabi and arent part of one nation state.
In terms of character/mannerisms, I would say Pashtuns are their own people and are different from both Tajiks and Punjabis because they are tribal and rural and dont have the sophisticated mannerisms and culture of Tajiks and Punjabis. But overall I would say Tajiks still resemble Pashtuns more in terms of looks and culture more than a Punjabi because Punjabis are Barelvi while Tajiks and Pashtuns arent. This is especially true for Pashtuns of Afghanistan.

Most punjabis still live in rural areas and have what you call tribal identity. They identitfy with their own biraderis. Rural punjabi will be less sosphiscated then urban educated pashtun and so on. But once punjabis move to cities they stop caring about castes/biraderis, and some even hide it if their status back in rural areas was not good.

HoP was reffering to Pakistani Dards who are lighter then average Paki pashtun but also have many similarties. One reason is they have small population and more inbred unlike pashtuns.

Dards for sure resemble pashtuns (Paki ones at least) more then average Tajik, no doubt it.

[Shapur]

It appears to me you dont know any thing about Dardics. Did i mention any where that Pashtuns resemble Punjabis? read my post again.

I do know Dardics, infact I had a blonde blue eyed Chitrali classmate in Peshawar. Dardics are small in number, less than a million in total if Kashmiris are taken out. Many Dardics are becoming Pashtuns as we speak in Nuristan and Chitral and northern KPK. My classmate spoke perfect peshawri Pashto and told me his whole family can speak pashto. I wouldnt be surprised if a large chink of pashtuns in Kunar, Ningarhar, laghman, northern KPK are actually Pashtunised Dardics.

Lala, I never suggested that you said Punjabis resemble Pashtuns. My main point was that the description of Tajiks by certain members is diffenitely false and only makes us look stupid. You mentioned somewhere on this forum that Pashtuns or Allama Habibi came up with Putta Khaza in order to compete with Farsi, I am just saying that we should speak the truth based on evidence so we dont suffer from putta khazana episode again. We know who we are and by belittling others and making fairytales will not change our reality.

[Samandri]

Most punjabis still live in rural areas and have what you call tribal identity. They identitfy with their own biraderis. Rural punjabi will be less sosphiscated then urban educated pashtun and so on. But once punjabis move to cities they stop caring about castes/biraderis, and some even hide it if their status back in rural areas was not good.

HoP was reffering to Pakistani Dards who are lighter then average Paki pashtun but also have many similarties. One reason is they have small population and more inbred unlike pashtuns.

Dards for sure resemble pashtuns (Paki ones at least) more then average Tajik, no doubt it.

In looks and facial features departments, Dards quite resemble Pashtuns . I often mistake Kohistani for a Pashtun just by looking. Pashai of Afghanistan are also said to resemble Pashtuns in looks. It might be , that many Dards have assimilated into Pashtuns who came to upper areas from Koh Sulieman mountains.

Tajiks are very different from Pashtuns in looks.

[Samandri]

I do know Dardics, infact I had a blonde blue eyed Chitrali classmate in Peshawar. Dardics are small in number, less than a million in total if Kashmiris are taken out. Many Dardics are becoming Pashtuns as we speak in Nuristan and Chitral and northern KPK. My classmate spoke perfect peshawri Pashto and told me his whole family can speak pashto. I wouldnt be surprised if a large chink of pashtuns in Kunar, Ningarhar, laghman, northern KPK are actually Pashtunised Dardics.

Lala, I never suggested that you said Punjabis resemble Pashtuns. My main point was that the description of Tajiks by certain members is diffenitely false and only makes us look stupid. You mentioned somewhere on this forum that Pashtuns or Allama Habibi came up with Putta Khaza in order to compete with Farsi, I am just saying that we should speak the truth based on evidence so we dont suffer from putta khazana episode again. We know who we are and by belittling others and making fairytales will not change our reality.

I dont understand why you brought Punjabis into it. You think we dont feel affinity for your Tajik family members because we are 'Punjabized'?.

Thats not the case. A big chunk of Bar Afghans, are persianized and those on fringes are more or less Tajiks in culture and appearance, just like some Pashtun tribes are Balochized and Brahuized on Pashtun-Baloch boundry. Or like those Hindkized ones in Hazara. So when heavily Tajikized Pashtun from Wardak or Logar meets an Afridi of Khyber pass, the latter appear different specie to the former. Even the Pashto accent of you lot is twisted, its dripping with Dari. Because of this, Wannabe-Persians like Firdousi feel that Pashtuns (those of Afghanistan) are culturally conquered by Tajiks. They are flattered that you people have adopted their language, and manners and customs.

[Shapur]

Most punjabis still live in rural areas and have what you call tribal identity. They identitfy with their own biraderis. Rural punjabi will be less sosphiscated then urban educated pashtun and so on. But once punjabis move to cities they stop caring about castes/biraderis, and some even hide it if their status back in rural areas was not good.

HoP was reffering to Pakistani Dards who are lighter then average Paki pashtun but also have many similarties. One reason is they have small population and more inbred unlike pashtuns.

Dards for sure resemble pashtuns (Paki ones at least) more then average Tajik, no doubt it.

Ofcourse all people of south central Asia resemble each other in almost every way, from physique to culture etc. After all we are neighbours and mostly Hanafis. To be honest I have never been to Punjab except, Rawalpindi and Islamabad a long time ago so I don't have first hand experience although, I have met quite a few Mirpuris in the UK and know about their biradari thing.

An average Tajik and Pashtun from Afghanistan is indistinguishable if they wear the same clothes and you don't know their identity. Same goes for an average Baloch/Dardic and many punjabis and Sindhis. All these people are close to each other physically in varying degrees. Have you been to Afghanistan at all?