Did Qais Abdul Rashid really exist?

[Afghanfootball]

What he could do about that in the darbar? the story was narrated to Emperor Jehangir. The Persian ambassador at Jehangir's court made the Afghans descendent of Devs (demons) in his story. The story is,


"Once King Zuhak, hearing of a race of beautiful women that lived in some far-off western countries, sent an army thither, which army was defeated by the beautiful women, but afterwards, a stronger expedition being sent under Nariman, they were reduced to sue for peace and gave in tribute a thousand virgins. When, on its return march, the army was one night encamped close to a wild mountainous country, there suddenly came down upon it a phantom, smote and scared the troops in all directions, and then, in that one night, ravished all the thousand virgins. In due time all became pregnant, and when Zuhak learnt this, he gave orders that the women should be kept in the remote desserts and plains lest the unnatural off springs should breed strife and tumult in the cities. This offspring was the race of Afghans"

He's a Pashtun in medieval times, there been many instances where delegates have been killed for disrespect iv heard even chebgiz khan's family member was killed by the Khwarizem Shah.

Never heard this story what a piece of shiy that guy must have been.

[Afghanfootball]

Not even in the slightest.

Pashtuns don't descend from a single ancestor like the Arabs or Jews do.

Him existing doesn't necessarily mean we have one ancestor. Could have easily been some big tribal leaders who, Pashtuns made storys about.

[Samandri]

He's a Pashtun in medieval times, there been many instances where delegates have been killed for disrespect iv heard even chebgiz khan's family member was killed by the Khwarizem Shah.

Never heard this story what a piece of shiy that guy must have been.

True. But Khan Jahan Lodi was not a soveriegn to kill persian ambassador without permission of his King. At least he did some thing positive , writing a book, instead of losing his temper and senses. By the way, this Lodi staged a greatest rebellion during shah jahan's reign. It didnt end well

[Kushan Prince]

Sure but isn't it something like 50.7%, btw are you considering getting tested? There's not many samples outside of Kurram and Kandahar.

Actually from what i read somewhere and someone else told me that pashtuns had 77% R1a, making it higher than brahmins which concluded that Pashtuns are probably the highest carriers of this haplogroup in the world. Makes sense since its believed origins are in Afghanistan and that Afghans are seen as homogenous for the most part.

The idea of getting tested has come to my mind but i am broke that the moment lol.

[Afghanfootball]

True. But Khan Jahan Lodi was not a soveriegn to kill persian ambassador without permission of his King. At least he did some thing positive , writing a book, instead of losing his temper and senses. By the way, this Lodi staged a greatest rebellion during shah jahan's reign. It didnt end well

Good point he was a governer and he at least proved the Persian wrong.

Why was their a lodhi noble in the Mughals? Considering the the Mughal are the ones who removed them from power in Delhi it's a bit strange that they would join them. I thought maybe it would mostly be Pashtuns from Kabulistan who joined the mughals.

[Kushan Prince]

Him existing doesn't necessarily mean we have one ancestor. Could have easily been some big tribal leaders who, Pashtuns made storys about.

Exactly, made up stories so he didn't exist period.

[Afghanfootball]

Exactly, made up stories so he didn't exist period.

How do we explain his grave being found in Balochistan?

[Kushan Prince]

How do we explain his grave being found in Balochistan?

How do people know its his grave, did they dig it up?

[Afghanfootball]

How do people know its his grave, did they dig it up?

According to legend he is buried around that area and considering they found a huge grave in the same area there's a good chance it was his.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Just because there is a gravesite attributed to a certain person it doesnt mean it's true.


In Laghman there is grave which is said to be Noah's fathers final resting place. In Mazar there is a grave of Ali Ibn Abi Taalib and similarly there are many other such gravesites.

Building a grave is like building a fast good place. All sorts of idiots will come and visit it. Especially in places where grave worship is so rampant.

The idea of Qais is indeed a fable. Primitive and ignorant people felt insecure about their lineage and history. This is why they invented his story.

If he truly was a real historic figure, he would have been mentioned in history books of other people as well.

[Adam]

Actually from what i read somewhere and someone else told me that pashtuns had 77% R1a, making it higher than brahmins which concluded that Pashtuns are probably the highest carriers of this haplogroup in the world. Makes sense since its believed origins are in Afghanistan and that Afghans are seen as homogenous for the most part.

The idea of getting tested has come to my mind but i am broke that the moment lol.

lol $99 bruh, btw where are you from back home?

[Samandri]

Good point he was a governer and he at least proved the Persian wrong.

Why was their a lodhi noble in the Mughals? Considering the the Mughal are the ones who removed them from power in Delhi it's a bit strange that they would join them. I thought maybe it would mostly be Pashtuns from Kabulistan who joined the mughals.

Some of the Lodhis actually supported Babur against their own Sultan Ibrahim Lodhi. It was Daulat Khan Lodhi who invited Babur to Hindostan. Those were "traitors" but this one, Pir Khan alias Khan Jahan Lodi, was a soldier of fortune in Bengal who ascended the ladder in Mughal power structure through his talent and merit and reached the highest mansab i.e 7000/7000. Pashtuns were not preferred by Mughals for high rank nobility (their presence was large in lower ranks and soldier rank) but those who made their names, were the ones whose merit and talent could not be ignored. These Pashtuns in Mughal nobility were from all tribes , but those from present day Baluchistan like Kakar, Panni, Tareens and Miyanas had larger presence compared to others.

[Samandri]

The "Qase Ghar" and the grave on that hill in Zhob is not not discovered today, it exist since centuries.

[Afghanfootball]

Some of the Lodhis actually supported Babur against their own Sultan Ibrahim Lodhi. It was Daulat Khan Lodhi who invited Babur to Hindostan. Those were "traitors" but this one, Pir Khan alias Khan Jahan Lodi, was a soldier of fortune in Bengal who ascended the ladder in Mughal power structure through his talent and merit and reached the highest mansab i.e 7000/7000. Pashtuns were not preferred by Mughals for high rank nobility (their presence was large in lower ranks and soldier rank) but those who made their names, were the ones whose merit and talent could not be ignored. These Pashtuns in Mughal nobility were from all tribes , but those from present day Baluchistan like Kakar, Panni, Tareens and Miyanas had larger presence compared to others.

Wow crazy that a Lodhi would turn on his own tribe like, but we're the Lodhis strong enough to defeat the Mughals at that time?

Considering Pashtuns are a warrior tribe it makes sense that they would mostly be soldiers of the Mughals empire. Afghans were probably the best warriors in the region along with turks and maybe Sikh.

[Samandri]

Wow crazy that a Lodhi would turn on his own tribe like, but we're the Lodhis strong enough to defeat the Mughals at that time?

Considering Pashtuns are a warrior tribe it makes sense that they would mostly be soldiers of the Mughals empire. Afghans were probably the best warriors in the region along with turks and maybe Sikh.

Not just him, i mentioned just him because Daulat Khan Lodi was uncle of Sultan and was govenor of Punjab. Without defense in Punjab, it became easy for Babur to reach Delhi. To be more clear, half of the nobility of Ibrahim Lodi was conspiring against that young brave soul. The Sultan had already lost his southern domains to Nuhani Afghan rebels and his hands were full against Rajput Mahraja, Rana Sanga. Hear the interesting part, it is said that the 6000 soldiers in Babur's army were Pashtuns , about 1200 among them were Yousafzais under the command of brother of Bibi Mubarakia Yousafzai (she was wife of Mughal emperor Babur). There were also zamand Pashtuns in Babur's army.

"The major portion of the Zamand tribe (about 6,000 men) under the leadership of Salim Khan , on the advice of their ‘Pir’, joined Babur’s army and subsequently gallantly fought in the battle of Panipat against Sultan Ibrahim Lodi. It is said that the Babur’s Mughal contingents were almost routed when Zamands took off their turbans and gird up their loins and holding a turf of their beard in their mouths , fought courageously and turned the table on the Lodis. At this unexpected victory Babur said that the Pashtuns only deserved the title of ‘Khan’ and not the Mughals. He gave Salim Khan an iron peg into the ground that whole tract would be graned to his tribe.(Muhammad Hayat Khan, “Hayat-e-i-Afghani, p-227-28)

Internal conflicts and disunity and lack of technology (artillary and matchlocks) contributed to defeat of Afghans at Panipat.

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Considering Pashtuns are a warrior tribe it makes sense that they would mostly be soldiers of the Mughals empire. Afghans were probably the best warriors in the region along with turks and maybe Sikh.

Sikhs became militants in early 18th century, the most reputed warriors of medieval India , were Rajputs. Babur gave jagirs and ranks to Afghans mostly. But Sher Shah Suri episode and continuous uprisings of Afghans, forced the Mughals to rely on Rajputs. Mughal Emperor Akbar devised a policy that Afghans should not be promoted to high ranks and shouldnt be appointed subehdars and that they shouldnt be entrusted with independent command of any Mughal army. This policy in spirit was followed by his successors with few exceptions here and there. After rebellion of Khan Jahan Lodi, no Afghan was able to attain the rank of 7000/7000. It was only in 1750s, that Najib Khan Yousafzai became prime minister and later Mir Bakhshi of declined. Mughal Empire.