Mahmud of Ghazni and the Pashtuns

[Bengal_Tiger]

Today, 01:08 PM
Remove user from ignore listPakZameen
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This is not defence.pk, most people around here (apart from some Arab nationalists, Taliban supporters etc) don't insult people's families here.

Good luck with creating toilets for 41 million Pakistanis without toilets.

Ciao

[PakZameen]

Already have. I made a Ryle for myself just put Porkis on ignore. I can't believe Admin let's such trolls on this forum.

Cry some more you little bitch. Cry to admin, cry to your mother, cry to God. Punjabi is here for your mother. lol

[Bengal_Tiger]

Already have. I made a Ryle for myself just put Porkis on ignore. I can't believe Admin let's such trolls on this forum.

Admin Khan can't be blamed for this troll who just started posting today. He has allowed Pakistani nationalists to participate in this forum but has been forced to remove their posting privileges when they went too far e.g. family insults, racism, abusing members etc.

We have to accept that this is an internet forum and a successful one thus it attracts trolls be they Pakistani nationalists, Arab nationalists from Yemen and others but when they go too far from what I have seen the site management has carried out the appropriate measures.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Hopefully in the future, a moderator like [MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION] can remove all the off-topic posts and insults from this thread and make it one devoted to discussion on this important Afghan figure.

To restore focus on to the actual topic, here is this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJUl2WPypD0

[Brown Skinned Savage]

And Bengali Hindu "Talukdars" who have an inferiority complex and want to be Pashtun

[Friends of Baloch]

And Bengali Hindu "Talukdars" who have an inferiority complex and want to be Pashtun

The real question is why is a punjabi and a bengali arguing with each other over who is "more" or "more closer physically" to Pashtuns when they are both from the race of dravidians and are much closer to each other in every respect than either are to Pashtuns?

I thought Bengalis were supposed to be secure with their ancestral hertiage unlike the Hindu Dalit converts aka punjabis who are ashamed of what they are.

[PakZameen]

The real question is why is a punjabi and a bengali arguing with each other over who is "more" or "more closer physically" to Pashtuns when they are both from the race of dravidians and are much closer to each other in every respect than either are to Pashtuns?

I thought Bengalis were supposed to be secure with their ancestral hertiage unlike the Hindu Dalit converts aka punjabis.

LOL. You dravidian Baluch piece of ****, when I said physically, I meant we are physically closer in terms of geography. Punjabis ain't pathans, bangladeshis or like your black sardars that you worship more than god. LOL

[Brown Skinned Savage]

The real question is why is a punjabi and a bengali arguing with each other over who is "more" or "more closer physically" to Pashtuns when they are both from the race of dravidians and are much closer to each other in every respect than either are to Pashtuns?

I thought Bengalis were supposed to be secure with their ancestral hertiage unlike the Hindu Dalit converts aka punjabis who are ashamed of what they are.

well the underlying issue here is the Nature of Indic Societies; they have an overarching Psychology and Social consciousness that binds them together.

Just look at Ben_Gay's post where he mentions "Caste"; how does the concept of Caste even exist in an allegedly Muslim society? These constructs are remnants of Hindu Psyche still persistent and prevailing between all of them. The term caste is exclusively possessed by South Asians whose ancestry was framed by Hindu Social beliefs.

[PakZameen]

well the underlying issue here is the Nature of Indic Societies; they have an overarching Psychologically and Social consciousness that binds them together.

Just look at Ben_Gay's post where he mentions "Caste"; how does the concept of Caste even exist in an allegedly Muslim society? These constructs are remnants of Hindu Psyche still persistent and prevailing between all of them. The term caste is exclusively possessed by South Asians whose ancestry was framed by Hindu Social beliefs.

**** off, we ain't like you, your bangladeshi slaves, or this Baluch. This nigga is out of his mind. His people literally speak a dravidian language called Brahui, and is trying to talk smack about Punjabis. If you ever want to get your head straight, ain't no castes in Punjab, just biradiris.

On top of that Punjabi is not even a homogeneous ethnicity. Time to step your book game up.

[Friends of Baloch]

well the underlying issue here is the Nature of Indic Societies; they have an overarching Psychologically and Social consciousness that binds them together.

Just look at Ben_Gay's post where he mentions "Caste"; how does the concept of Caste even exist in an allegedly Muslim society? These constructs are remnants of Hindu Psyche still persistent and prevailing between all of them. The term caste is exclusively possessed by South Asians whose ancestry was framed by Hindu Social beliefs.

Very true. Caste is exclusive to the Hindu countries of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. Because of the inherent bigotry, chauvinism and materialism of the caste system you can see why South Asians are the biggest of socially awkward losers anywhere on the planet, and all suffering from massive racial inferiority complex because according to the caste system the more "foreign" you are the better your blood is and higher up your "caste" is. So it goes that the "high caste" Hindu is supposed to be from the descent of Aryan invaders while the low caste masses are from the indigenous Dravidians. But in truth South Asias are all either Dravidians or Dravidians that had been raped by nomdic Aryan invaders. There are no pure Aryans in South Asia, just their b_stard offspring hence the name "Indo-Aryan" (the hybrid of Dravidian and Aryan).

Among punjabis and sindhis who are the converted low castes of Hindus they have retained this inferiority complex towards foreigners that Aryan invaders had imposed on their ancestors which is ingrained in the caste system. So on converting to semi-Islam, instead of linking themselves to Brahaman Aryans who had humiliated them for thousands of years they now try to link themselves to Arabs or Persians or Afghans and Turks/Mughals instead in the hopes of trying to "up" themselves on their caste ridden social structure.

Stinking pakis will claim all sorts of nonsense fantasies about being descendant of 'X' 'foreign invader' of India because this is just their modification of their ancestral Hindu caste system which praises foreign blood and 'fair skin' over their own actual black skinned bodies and South Asian blood. But truth is punjabis are just low caste Hindu people mainly Jats, Chooras, Chamars and other sc_ms that use those words to actually insult each other as if one punjabi stinker was supposed to be better than the other!

You have to feel a bit sorry for pakis though. I mean they have been low caste Hindus for thousands of years until relatively recently and denied opportunity for education and basic hygiene that was enjoyed by crooked high castes. So naturally in every punjabis family tree they are coming from a long line of poor and uneducated people who had to beg and cheat and tell lies for daily survival. It is no wonder then that pakis are the way they are. It cant be easy to be an inferior Dalit, even after semi-converting to new religion.

[Samandri]

Sabuktin, was the Father of Mahmud Ghaznawi, and the SON IN LAW of Alptageen, which means that Mahmud's mother was in fact a TURK woman. Mahmud's mother was ALPTAGIN's daughter

Nope , that was not the case. Mahmud's step-brother, Ismael was the son of Alptagin's daughter. While Mahmud and Yusuf were the sons of that Zabuli lady. Subtagin nominated Ismael as his successor on his death-bed, historians assume that elder son Mahmud was bypassed because he was probably son of a slave women ( assumed from Ferdusi's satire) while Ismael was a legitimate son.

[Samandri]

This is the same Shortcoming that exists in Abdul Hai Habibi's works; sometimes he wrote good stuff another time he writes COMPLETE crap; Because Primary sources do not support his commentary. He calls the "Lawik", "Loyak" to make their name sound more "Pashto". That's a very ACADEMICALLY DISHONEST tactic. He says Alptagin is a Hybrid Turkish-Pashto family because he can construe the "Tagin" part into "Tageen" which he suggests is Pashto. But the word AlpTagin is a Turkish word, unrelated to Pashto, meaning "Brave Prince". The word for Brave in Pashto is "Bator" and the closest Native Pashto word not influenced from Farsi or Arabic for Prince would be like "Masharzoi" or "Sashtanzoi". Like Alice Albinia; Habibi provides more COMMENTARY and NARRATIVE than primary source data.

Spot on. Look what he did here, Is Hazara An Ancient Word?

Habibi also did his research, collection of information, poorly on many occasions (or may be he was simply dishonest). For example in the above article he is speculating that Hazara people have nothing to do with Mongols as there is also Hazara region in Pakistan who are not Mongoloid. The Thing is , Hazara division inhabitants are not called Hazaras. The region was named so because in 1399 Timur settled ming i.e regiments of one thousand men, of Karlugh Turks there. This is narrated by Ain-i-Akbari and Tuzk-i-jehangiri. Nowadays the descendants of those Turks have only few villages. So even the name of Hazara division of KPK, is linked with Turko-Mongol settlement, and the name of region is not ancient.

[Samandri]

Him not being appointed king at first is a good point though.

He was the most capable son and elder one yet bypassed?. There are two reasons that comes to my mind for Subuktagin's decision

1-Subuktagin owed his throne to his father-in-law Alptagin, so chose his daughter's son.

2- Mahumd's mother was either daughter of a petty chief of Zabul or slave if firdusi is to be believed.

I will check some more books on history of Mahmud Ghaznavi and see what they say about his mother.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

According to Ferishta Tarikh of Ghaznavi Mahmud Ghaznavi the son of a noble from Zabul. How would he be able to mix up noble with slave? Also why would Subutugeen wed a slave woman? Lastly if she was a Turk why would she be called Zabuli? So many unanswered questions and a very interesting topic.

https://books.google.com/books?id=CHu2h-FsY3IC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=sultan+Mahmud+Ghaznavi.mother&source=bl&ots=tYS1LDzhY3&sig=nPeNs2ovgaunYFoD5H7MG-ZVUZ8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFIQ6AEwDmoVChMIk5qI08CGyAIVTBGSCh2k4g-K#v=onepage&q=sultan%20Mahmud%20Ghaznavi.mother&f=false

well the book you're quoting is no by Ferishta, it's a translation of a Pashto book written much later.
.
Ferishta claims that Mahmud's mother is Alptagin's daughter, by this time Alptagin was Emir of Ghazni so by default he had become Nobility, and hence his daughter becomes nobility; perhaps that's where the confusion arises. But Sabuktagin was Alptagin's slave and father of Mahmod Ghazni

[Kushan Prince]

Firdusi was contemperory of Mahmud. Although poets cant be fully trusted in describing facts, but if we assume his mother to be a slave, then she was most probably a Turk as they were the only ones who were slave in this region.

It is not mentioned by Utbi, that Afghans of which region were punished by Mahmud. Alberuni of the same period tell us that Afghans live south of Ghazni upto Sindh. Unfortunately we do not know much beyond this. It seems Ghazni itself was not populated by Afghans at that time.

That's BS, Ghazni has always been Pashtun inhabited, with Ghurghasti tribes being the main population, Ghilzai's came after being exiled from the south by Durranis. Keep in mind that half his army encompassed Pashtuns from Ghazni and his mother was from Zabul, a majority Pashtun area in the south.

More than likely she was Pashtun.