Ahmad Zahir

[Nick]

Nick! They believe in an ethnocentric version of nationalism which I guess will hardly be acceptible to even a very small fraction of Pashtun/afghan population to both sides of the Durand line. It is simply not a viable or workable idealogy for states to run.

Dear Brother Khyaal clarify please
As an Afghan nationalist myself i know this move was only proposed by Pakistan in 1965 UN summit. I personally see this as an ISI ideology, in order to rebel Afghan nationalism.

[afghan]

I too can speak well Pashtu LOL if I had some training and few speeches from paper. I am talking about his early stages, common Ghaznivi you know where i am heading.

if thats the way, then we should drop the idea of unifying pashtuns, our brothers from pashtunkhwah are more fluent in urdu, they can express themselves much better in urdu, they write much better in urdu than pashto, the we should drop calling them pashtun as well we will be calling them urduwan or urduzaban, what ever other name suites them.

[Nick]

if thats the way, then we should drop the idea of unifying pashtuns, our brothers from pashtunkhwah are more fluent in urdu, they can express themselves much better in urdu, they write much better in urdu than pashto, the we should drop calling them pashtun as well we will be calling them urduwan or urduzaban, what ever other name suites them.

I agree that Afghans of Pakistan speak urdu, but Afghan please don't fool me, even they speak urdu they speak with "accent" and I don't know about your "better Urdu" maybe you have been listening to some Dude with Pashtun last name and made you think that all of them speaks urdu. For God's sakes people Pakistan has been created some 70 years ago, but Urdu influence is only since Media came out, as well as Pakistani Schools that were open in 1970s. Besides amongst all of those "Pashtun population of Pakistan" only 10% of them maybe speaking Urdu, but majority speaks Pashtu and for those who travel back and forth like in Karachi/Multan/Islamabad speaks urdu as second language. Not all Pashtuns speak fluent Urdu.


Who are individuals like you or me to speak of Pashtun unification. Pashtun unification for some is a dream and for others a must Deed. If this was the Case then Ok Find then us be unified with Turkistan with Turanism and Iran with idea of Persian nationalism, LOL because some 35% of Turkic races speaks Persian as well as Majority of Iranians and so we can break up and join them. Ten what's the point of having "Afghanistan" in the first place? Afghan _Stan. Read my friend Means land of Afghan, Pashtu, arabic, Dari, Hindko, or Urdu Whatever your tongue maybe but again have you heard the notion of "once Afghan forever Afghan". The Idea of Afghan Land I am speaking of is "Afghan nationalism" Pashtun nationalism is one of the major banners of Afghan nationalism and I support Pashtun nationalism because we Afghan claim Brits took our Land, and its occupied by Pakistan. We have claim over Pakistan, not Pakistan over us. I am not speaking of Pashtun nationalism, or Persian nationalism, or Turanism in terms of Language affiliation which is stupid, but rather a Racial association yes Afghan Irredentism which is also part of Pashtun nationalism. I am going to make another thread on this hopefully makes sense.

[afghan]

I agree that Afghans of Pakistan speak urdu, but Afghan please don't fool me, even they speak urdu they speak with "accent" and I don't know about your "better Urdu" maybe you have been listening to some Dude with Pashtun last name and made you think that all of them speaks urdu. For God's sakes people Pakistan has been created some 70 years ago, but Urdu influence is only since Media came out, as well as Pakistani Schools that were open in 1970s. Besides amongst all of those "Pashtun population of Pakistan" only 10% of them maybe speaking Urdu, but majority speaks Pashtu and for those who travel back and forth like in Karachi/Multan/Islamabad speaks urdu as second language. Not all Pashtuns speak fluent Urdu.


Who are individuals like you or me to speak of Pashtun unification. Pashtun unification for some is a dream and for others a must Deed. If this was the Case then Ok Find then us be unified with Turkistan with Turanism and Iran with idea of Persian nationalism, LOL because some 35% of Turkic races speaks Persian as well as Majority of Iranians and so we can break up and join them. Ten what's the point of having "Afghanistan" in the first place? Afghan _Stan. Read my friend Means land of Afghan, Pashtu, arabic, Dari, Hindko, or Urdu Whatever your tongue maybe but again have you heard the notion of "once Afghan forever Afghan". The Idea of Afghan Land I am speaking of is "Afghan nationalism" Pashtun nationalism is one of the major banners of Afghan nationalism and I support Pashtun nationalism because we Afghan claim Brits took our Land, and its occupied by Pakistan. We have claim over Pakistan, not Pakistan over us. I am not speaking of Pashtun nationalism, or Persian nationalism, or Turanism in terms of Language affiliation which is stupid, but rather a Racial association yes Afghan Irredentism which is also part of Pashtun nationalism. I am going to make another thread on this hopefully makes sense.

well i dont see any diffirence between afghan and pashtun both are the same. the diffirence between afghan and pashtun is seen only by non-pashtun of afghanistan.

[Nick]

well i dont see any diffirence between afghan and pashtun both are the same. the diffirence between afghan and pashtun is seen only by non-pashtun of afghanistan.

There you go which is why I proudly call Pashtuns by their original and proud ancient racial term and not by their modern Famous Linguistic term. This way by bring facts foreword, for those who knows they know, but I confuse many other who don't know, at the same time make others think twice before spiting on their own plate.

[Azmal]

He was Farsiwan and anti-Pashtun. Moreover, why is Persian allowed here?

Tora,
Ahmad Zahir is related to me from my mom side, he was a Pashtun and used to talk pashtu at home. His nick name at home was Toor jan.

My request to all youngster here, please do not write of things you have no idea or just heard from someone.

[Azmal]

Toramana there are 2 different theories in defining a Pashtun.

1)Pashtun by blood
2)Pashtun by language.

Both are acceptable he was a Pashtun by blood.

Ahmad zahir was Pashtun by blood and language, he sang most of his song in Dari cause Dari was/is lingua franca in Afghanistan.

I see if i have Aryana tv(Nabil Moskyeenyar) tv program aired during Ahmad zahir death anniversary...there was a Radio kabul interview of Ahmad Zahir where he says he was extremely happy to compose his pashto songs for its language he used to talk to his mother.

[Azmal]

i have heard diffirent stories about him. Tajiks from tajikistan claim he was tajik, whos family immigrated to afghanistan.. makes no sense.
Non pastun of afghanistan claim he was a tajik, who spoke persian and ethnically he was a pashai.
i was not able to find any reliable source about his tribe if he was a pashtun. i think he was anti-pashtun he does have few songs in pashto and pretty good one.

You can ask his niece http://www.myspace.com/rabiazahir , his uncle Dr Qayum speak Dari with heavy pashto accent, dr Qayum zahir wife is American lady and speak fluent pashto. Ahmad zahir belongs to a well know afghan family, his father was priminster, his uncle interior Minster, his other uncle governor. If you could get the copy of Who is who in Afghanistan by Adamic(writen in 60s).

[Laila]

I visited Ahmad Zahir's grave and did a dua for him and I visited his house, though someone else lives there now.

Ahmad Zahir's father and my mothers family kinda knew each other.

And i dont care what language he sang in....i could care less if it was gibberish or a language from Mars....his music is stunning and his lyrics are to die for.

[Azmal]

I think its normal for most of you youngsters to have wrong view of afghans like Ahmad zahir, specially when most of elite kabuli Pashtons do not speak pashto...to in a way those people who were born and raised outside Afghanistan or even outside Kabul, do not understand or know the culture of people. Anyways here is a NY times article about Ahmad zahir.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/20/wo...his-death.html

An ethnic Pashtun who sang mostly in Dari, he won fans in all ethnic groups.

To be honest I'm one of Kabuli Pashton and sometimes i find it hard to identify with some Pashtons, maybe its city vs village culture, but then i have seen some Peshawar pashtons and i find them to be more in line with Indian/Pakis.

[Laila]

^ What people do not understand is that many Pashtuns in Afghanistan loved and still love Ahmad Zahir. Ahmad Zahir won the hearts of many people, no matter what ethnicity and no matter if it was a Dari speaker or Pashto speaker. No one questioned why he sang in Dari back then....so why now?

Worldwide people loved Ahmad Zahir....in Italy, people knew who he was. He took a lot of music influences from other countries. Which other Afghan singer do you know that has done that.....and even after his death he is still one of the most popular person worldwide.

[Azmal]

could you share that with us? I also consider it as an insult that a Pashto zuban only composed a few songs in his mother tongue.

Well, i respect your opinion but then we must also respect those that that think above tribalism mentality. Dari is lingua franca of not only Afghanistan but whole region, it offers much more to express feeling. Loving ones language does not mean to hate other language.

[Azmal]

^ What people do not understand is that many Pashtuns in Afghanistan loved and still love Ahmad Zahir. Ahmad Zahir won the hearts of many people, no matter what ethnicity and no matter if it was a Dari speaker or Pashto speaker. No one questioned why he sang in Dari back then....so why now?

Worldwide people loved Ahmad Zahir....in Italy, people knew who he was. He took a lot of music influences from other countries. Which other Afghan singer do you know that has done that.....and even after his death he is still one of the most popular person worldwide.

My parents also says that back then there was no issue with Dari, Pashto, Uzbaki...the Dari against Pashto conflict is creation of last 30 years. When those criminal Commie realize they could not win they started the divide and rule with inflaming the ethnic hatred. Even Setami Miliee is a leftist group which break away from PDPA. Later Pakistan, Iran and now a days US also inflames the ethnic war. Complex and jealousy brings nothing but destruction and killing, as the Khalqis and Commies showed. More then 50000 highly educated Afghans were murdered in cold blood by commies. The same Sardar e Shayed Doud khan that was working and preaching for Pashton rights all his life were murdered in cold blood with his whole family by the same Pashton(Khalqi) boys brought from villages and educated in Khushal khan and Rahman Baba schools and then send to USSR for higher education.
I sometimes wonder why is it that only Pashtons gives birth to extremist savages like Khalqis who used to murder those that prays or says word Allah, or now Taliban who kill people in the name of Allah.
.

[Laila]

^ Yes, language and ethnicity was not an issue back then.....like you said, people from the last couple of decades and still cause the issues.

When i was in Laghman, i could have sworn, no one, absolutely no one cares! even though the south part of Laghman is majority Pashtuns, and the North part is majority Farsi....no one gives a damn...they respect one another. In fact, they all speak both languages.

[Laila]

Here is a picture of his grave site when i visited Afg