Ahmad Shah Abdali was a Wahhabi

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I agree with you; but Barakzai's evidence is stronger than yours; you claim he was a Pashtun nationalist When he betrayed Pashtuns and helped a Turkoman claim Pashtun homelands as his own. Barakzai claims he wanted to restore an Islamic Khilafah, but he certainly did Unislamic acts. The fact is, Abdali despite his Unislamic acts ENVISIONED an Islamic Society; maybe he was inspired by Shah Waliyullah's words; but whatever the case he saw the Other Muslims as "fallen" and his intention was clearly geared towards Islam as authority ....the problem was Ahmad Shah Abdali's idea of Islam as he practiced it himself was warped.

Albeit I disagree with some of the wording, I thank you for examining the quotes and evidences and making an independent assessment.

[Badlun]

It seems we are reaching the conclusion. I agree with RTR that most of the acts of Abdali Baba were unislamic and at the same time I repeat that I really view Ahmad Shah, the indigenous quintiessential Pashtun.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It seems we are reaching the conclusion. I agree with RTR that most of the acts of Abdali Baba were unislamic and at the same time I repeat that I really view Ahmad Shah, the indigenous quintiessential Pashtun.

Wrong again because quintiessential in your mind means resembling Assfandyaar or militant secularists. The reality is far different, his cause celebre and moral imperative centered around Islam.

Therefore, his resemblance to members of the Quetta shura you want to see dead, despite even their divergence from Islam, is closer than his resemblance to asfandyaar or other hyper secularists who teamed up with hindus and others as opposed to making alliances with purely Muslims. To date, not a single alliance exists where Ahmad Shah joined with Georgian, Shiite, Sikh, or Hindus when he ascended to power.

So once again, the conclusion we reach is that Ahmad Shah resembled the rural Pashtun far more closely and his written dialogue was contrary to Najibist Khadist militant secularist thought.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It seems we are reaching the conclusion. I agree with RTR that most of the acts of Abdali Baba were unislamic and at the same time I repeat that I really view Ahmad Shah, the indigenous quintiessential Pashtun.

So you think a slave of Turmoman's who helped a Turkoman drive the Ghilziyan out of Kandahar is a quintessential Pashtun?

[Badlun]

So you think a slave of Turmoman's who helped a Turkoman drive the Ghilziyan out of Kandahar is a quintessential Pashtun?

I know he killed many Muslims and Pashtuns but being the founder of the modern Afghanistan he can be declared as a Pashtun hero. There are many other Muslims and Pashtuns who killed each other. Even Hazrat Ayesha fought against Hazrat Ali but both are Arab or Muslim heroes, so on this basis we can forgive Abdali Baba.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I know he killed many Muslims and Pashtuns but being the founder of the modern Afghanistan he can be declared as a Pashtun hero. There are many other Muslims and Pashtuns who killed each other. Even Hazrat Ayesha fought against Hazrat Ali but both are Arab or Muslim heroes, so on this basis we can forgive Abdali Baba.

I will repeat my question ...so you think that a SLAVE OF A TURKOMAN who helped a TURKOMAN get power over Pashtun lands and drive out Pashtuns from their homes is a Quintessential Pashtun?

Simple yes or no question.

[Badlun]

I will repeat my question ...so you think that a SLAVE OF A TURKOMAN who helped a TURKOMAN get power over Pashtun lands and drive out Pashtuns from their homes is a Quintessential Pashtun?

Simple yes or no question.

Can you please elaborate that how Abdali was a slave of a Turkoman and how he helped a Turkoman get power over Pashtun lands and drive Pashtuns out from their homes?

Who was this Turkoman? What I know that at the end of the day Aabdali got power over Pashtun lands at that time not any Turkoman?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Can you please elaborate that how Abdali was a slave of a Turkoman and how he helped a Turkoman get power over Pashtun lands and drive Pashtuns out from their homes?

Who was this Turkoman? What I know that at the end of the day Aabdali got power over Pashtun lands at that time not any Turkoman?

Well he was a ghulam of Turkoman Nader Shah Quli, Nader Shah Quli was Turkoman. Who bore allegiance to the last Safavid Prince.

He was apart of his army and he was helping their invasion of Kandahar to reclaim Kandahar into the Persian empire and drive out the Ghilziiyan from Kandahar

How can a Pashtun Nationalist not know his history?

[Badlun]

Well he was a ghulam of Turkoman Nader Shah Quli, Nader Shah Quli was Turkoman. Who bore allegiance to the last Safavid Prince.

He was apart of his army and he was helping their invasion of Kandahar to reclaim Kandahar into the Persian empire and drive out the Ghilziiyan from Kandahar

How can a Pashtun Nationalist not know his history?

I know the history but misconceived Nader Shah to be of Turkish Afshar tribe not exactly a Turkomen from Afghanistan.

I also knew that Qajars invited Nader Shah to defeat Ghilzais but he first defeated Abdalis in Herat , later he defeated Ghilzais. In this history I never found that Ahmad Shah personally joined Nader Shah to defeat Abdalis or Ghilzais.

As the history goes there was infighting between and amongst the Pashtuns. This was not only Abdali who fought against Ghilzais but also the other way round. Ahmad Shah's father, Zaman Khan Abdali, was killed in a battle with the Hotakis around the time of Ahmad Shah's birth.

Look at the inter-wining of events that even in 1729, after the invasion of Nader Shah, the young Ahmad Shah fled with his family south to Kandahar and took refuge with the Ghilzais. He and his brother, Zulfikar, were later imprisoned inside a fortress byHussain Hotaki, the Ghilzai ruler of Kandahar.

Only after conquering Kandahar in 1738, Ahmad Shah and his brother were freed by Nader Shah and provided with leading careers in his administration.

This was all at the beginning of his career but later once he was declared king by Loya Jirga , he had Pashtuns from all tribes and from all walks of life and during his life time there was no rebellion against him by any Pashtun tribe. Till this day no Ghilzai or other Pashtun tribe hate him for his past before he was declared as king and his attachment with Nader Shah. History of Pashtun does not have a parallel of Ahmad Shah Baba.

[Kushan Prince]

I know the history but misconceived Nader Shah to be of Turkish Afshar tribe not exactly a Turkomen from Afghanistan.

I also knew that Qajars invited Nader Shah to defeat Ghilzais but he first defeated Abdalis in Herat , later he defeated Ghilzais. In this history I never found that Ahmad Shah personally joined Nader Shah to defeat Abdalis or Ghilzais.

As the history goes there was infighting between and amongst the Pashtuns. This was not only Abdali who fought against Ghilzais but also the other way round. Ahmad Shah's father, Zaman Khan Abdali, was killed in a battle with the Hotakis around the time of Ahmad Shah's birth.

Look at the inter-wining of events that even in 1729, after the invasion of Nader Shah, the young Ahmad Shah fled with his family south to Kandahar and took refuge with the Ghilzais. He and his brother, Zulfikar, were later imprisoned inside a fortress byHussain Hotaki, the Ghilzai ruler of Kandahar.

Only after conquering Kandahar in 1738, Ahmad Shah and his brother were freed by Nader Shah and provided with leading careers in his administration.

This was all at the beginning of his career but later once he was declared king by Loya Jirga , he had Pashtuns from all tribes and from all walks of life and during his life time there was no rebellion against him by any Pashtun tribe. Till this day no Ghilzai or other Pashtun tribe hate him for his past before he was declared as king and his attachment with Nader Shah. History of Pashtun does not have a parallel of Ahmad Shah Baba.

No need to argue with RTR. He basically gets all his information from Wikipedia without checking where the source comes from. I bet he also didn't know that that Ahmad Shah betrayed Nader shah and that Mirwas Hotak himself used to serve the Afshars before betraying them as well and knew all their strengths and weakness. Thats how pashtuns came to power in Iran.

[Pakhtunzai]

ABdul Qaadir al Jilaani is also a Sufi yet, his books Ghunyat Talibeen and his other writings go against the beliefs and practices of modern day Qadiriyyah.

Similarly, Shah Waliullah was a Sufi, yet his practices and his beliefs go against mainstream Sufism.

Can you explain these please? What sort of things did he write that goes against modern day Qadiriyyah?

Also Shah Waliullah please?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No need to argue with RTR. He basically gets all his information from Wikipedia without checking where the source comes from. I bet he also didn't know that that Ahmad Shah betrayed Nader shah and that Mirwas Hotak himself used to serve the Afshars before betraying them as well and knew all their strengths and weakness. Thats how pashtuns came to power in Iran.

This is incorrectl it was actually Qizilbash who betrayed Nader Shah; Ahmad Shah was 100% loyal to the end; read a book sometime will you
and stop accusing me of stuff myself and others have highlighted about you; frankly it is pathetic.

And Mirwais never betrayed the Afshars. because the Afshars weren't in powe rthen;. You're very uninformed.

[Pakhtunzai]

For a guy whos hellbent on gunning sufis, he has not even given the info that hes requested of.......Manana

[ډګروال]

For a guy whos hellbent on gunning sufis, he has not even given the info that hes requested of.......Manana

like badlun and khostai types wahabis are also burning that Afghanistan is not a wahabi country and that they are in extreme minority.

thats why they always insult the country and its honourable ancesters.

[Pakhtunzai]

like badlun and khostai types wahabis are also burning that Afghanistan is not a wahabi country and that they are in extreme minority.

thats why they always insult the country and its honourable ancesters.

Lol, no question about it on those 2 clowns. Lets hear mr shamlawar out, lets see what he has to say

I'm very curious about what I previously asked@ shamlawar.