Ahmad Shah Abdali was a Wahhabi

[Badlun]

While I agree that Ahmad Shah ABdali is not as great a hero as people make him out to be, your source which does not even CITE which pages they get this information from their supposed "reference list", is run by a Tajik PASHTUN HATING propagandist who was on several Afghan forums spreading this same tripe.

Unreliable.

I know the site is run by Pashtun haters but the article about Abdali Baba is very much correct well referenced and represent Abdali only for Pashtuns not for Muslims or other ethnicities. This is what I like in the article. I may not agree with other articles on the same site but the sections I quoted are historically correct otherwise a rebuttal may be written with historical references.

[Kushan Prince]

SK is trolling again... -_-

Look at the stupid threads he opens.

[randolph85]

Hmm reading about his plunders I really wonder why Kandahar didn't have any big palaces or mosques... it looks kind of low class...If you look at Herat and Mazar and some other ancient cities they al have some big and beautiful mosqs and citys but Kandahar is just...yeah kind of ****y.

Most of his life as king was dedicated to conquests at home and abroad and not so much sitting fancy on a throne and spending money like a fat arab. after his death, his family pretty much squandered his gains. had his son and his grandson been cut from the same cloth as him, kandahar would of been far greater than it was/is.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I know the site is run by Pashtun haters but the article about Abdali Baba is very much correct well referenced and represent Abdali only for Pashtuns not for Muslims or other ethnicities. This is what I like in the article. I may not agree with other articles on the same site but the sections I quoted are historically correct otherwise a rebuttal may be written with historical references.

There are some general facts which are corroborated by many sources; but the fact they make they post slanted nonsense shows skewed biases within the article.

I do however agree on this

- ASB was not a Pashtun Nationalist hero, he tyurannized the Ghilzais
- he was a Stooge of Turkoman Nader Shah against other Pashtuns.
- He sanctioned massacres as well as tyranny against foreign women
- Many of his practices contradicted Islamic Shari'ah;

However the narrative given in your source is motivated with an agenda. Worst off it is not properly cited.

This is why it is a poor source.

[Kushan Prince]

I know the site is run by Pashtun haters but the article about Abdali Baba is very much correct well referenced and represent Abdali only for Pashtuns not for Muslims or other ethnicities. This is what I like in the article. I may not agree with other articles on the same site but the sections I quoted are historically correct otherwise a rebuttal may be written with historical references.

No, your'e article is portraying Ahmad shah as some kind of Genghis Khan. He was none of that and you have to understand that he was military leader. As a leader, invasions are never peaceful and will leave casualties on all sides.Can you tell me one invasion that was carried out peacefully? That's right, you CAN'T. Also i can't believe anything a tajik says about pashtuns or our leaders because what they say is about 99.% false and miscalculated and is to make pashtuns look like some OF barbaric tribal savages.

[Badlun]

Although Abdali fought against other Pashtuns and Muslims but at the end of the day he is a Pashtun nationalist hero. He talks of Pashtuns or Afghans in his poetry.Ahmad Shah wrote a collection of odes in his native Pashto language. The most famous Pashto poem he wrote was Love of a Nation:

By blood, we are immersed in love of you.
The youth lose their heads for your sake.
I come to you and my heart finds rest.
Away from you, grief clings to my heart like a snake.
I forget the throne of Delhi
when I remember the mountain tops of my Afghan(Pashtun) land.
If I must choose between the world and you,
I shall not hesitate to claim your barren deserts as my own.

http://www.afghan-web.com/culture/poetry/pops/lvnation.html

A Pan Islamist cannot talk in a such nationalistic way.

He did not establish a chapter of caliphate or an Islamic kind of rule but the nation of Afghanistan.

Indeed, it was under the leadership of the first Pashtun ruler, Ahmad Shah, that the nation of Afghanistan began to take shape following centuries of fragmentation and exploitation.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field%28DOCID+af0010%29

[Kushan Prince]

^That's not being a nationalist, that's being patriotic to your country.

Two complety different things.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Although Abdali fought against other Pashtuns and Muslims but at the end of the day he is a Pashtun nationalist hero. He talks of Pashtuns or Afghans in his poetry.Ahmad Shah wrote a collection of odes in his native Pashto language. The most famous Pashto poem he wrote was Love of a Nation:

By blood, we are immersed in love of you.
The youth lose their heads for your sake.
I come to you and my heart finds rest.
Away from you, grief clings to my heart like a snake.
I forget the throne of Delhi
when I remember the mountain tops of my Afghan(Pashtun) land.
If I must choose between the world and you,
I shall not hesitate to claim your barren deserts as my own.
http://www.afghan-web.com/culture/po.../lvnation.html

A Pan Islamist cannot talk in a such nationalistic way.

He did not establish a chapter of caliphate or an Islamic kind of rule but the nation of Afghanistan.

Indeed, it was under the leadership of the first Pashtun ruler, Ahmad Shah, that the nation of Afghanistan began to take shape following centuries of fragmentation and exploitation.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...OCID+af0010%29

Wrong again, nice try but once again insufficient evidence based purely on a single poem, whereas multiple letters, the Tarikh, and the Ahmad Shah Namah he sanctioned are the only sources that he allowed his potential intentions to be documented.

Basically, Pashtun nationalists and militant secularists such as yourself are relying purely on innuendo or supposition whereas statements from the Ahmad Shah Namah provide concrete evidences on how he viewed his own rule:

"From this moment on he (Ahmad Shah) was turned into the "King of the seven climes (farman rawaiyaa haft iqlim) invested with a Godly mission to restore the sultanates of Iran, Hind, and Turkestan. In this heavenly task he situated himself in the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliphs."


This is supplemented by his own 4 years of peace:

"He used to hold, at stated periods, what is termed a Majlis-i-Eeulama, or Assembly of the Learned, the early part of which was generally devoted to divinity and civil law-for Ahmad Shah himself was a Molawi and concluded with conversations on science and poetry. "

http://www.khyber.org/pashtotribes/a/abdali.shtml

The nature of militant Pashtun secularists is the following:
1) Abhor Islam and chide anyone using it for Political purposes
2) Form alliances with non Muslims to subvert Muslims and their causes
3) Use outside powers to de islamicize indigenous peoples

We can see clearly that Ahmad Shah Baba, a proud Pashtun, and a concerned individual who paid homage to Caliph Mostafa did not meet these 3 criteria.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Although Abdali fought against other Pashtuns and Muslims but at the end of the day he is a Pashtun nationalist hero. He talks of Pashtuns or Afghans in his poetry.Ahmad Shah wrote a collection of odes in his native Pashto language. The most famous Pashto poem he wrote was Love of a Nation:

By blood, we are immersed in love of you.
The youth lose their heads for your sake.
I come to you and my heart finds rest.
Away from you, grief clings to my heart like a snake.
I forget the throne of Delhi
when I remember the mountain tops of my Afghan(Pashtun) land.
If I must choose between the world and you,
I shall not hesitate to claim your barren deserts as my own.

http://www.afghan-web.com/culture/poetry/pops/lvnation.html

A Pan Islamist cannot talk in a such nationalistic way.

He did not establish a chapter of caliphate or an Islamic kind of rule but the nation of Afghanistan.

Indeed, it was under the leadership of the first Pashtun ruler, Ahmad Shah, that the nation of Afghanistan began to take shape following centuries of fragmentation and exploitation.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...OCID+af0010%29

Talk is Talk ....Action is Action Ahmad Shah Abdali's actions were tyrannical and shows he was a power hungry person.

Firstly he was a servant of a Turkoman; secondly he helped the Turkoman attack and drive out other Pashtuns from their homelands.

Whether or not he created Afghanistan is irrelevant; there was no need for its creation. Pashtuns lived fine before him. A cute poem about how he misses Pashtunlands is not evidence that he was striving for Pashtuns.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I know the site is run by Pashtun haters but the article about Abdali Baba is very much correct well referenced and represent Abdali only for Pashtuns not for Muslims or other ethnicities. This is what I like in the article. I may not agree with other articles on the same site but the sections I quoted are historically correct otherwise a rebuttal may be written with historical references.

Wrong

1) The title has a stupid level misspelling in it (what is controvervy?)
2) He doesn't reference any of the actual subject matter and has not actually read the Tarikh, he just listed some potential references. The way that Strunk and White and the Bedford Hand Book demand referencing is that each sentence and each assertion requires a traceable citation so that we can go into the actual source, to the page and read the reference.

Basically, like your other data you provided, its pretty much useless and doesn't support your contention, which you reneged upon - but then realizing how losing the personage of Ahmad Shah Abdali for militant propaganda/Pashtun Militant Secularism would unveil the true face of that treasonous movement - you quickly backtracked.

Thankfully, your original thoughts on Ahmad Shah and your assertions about him and the comparisons between other people you find unsavory in todays world are preserved for all to see above.

[Afgun]

Bismillah

As Salaamu 3alaykum wa Ra7matullah,


We often hear secularists, nationalists and some Sufis praise Ahmed Shah Abdali as the father and founder of Afghanistan.

Little do they know that the charismatic hero and icon of Pashtun people was actually a follower of Shah Waliullah Dhelawi and the Indian proto-type Wahhabis.

In fact the epic defeat of Indians by the Afghan Muslim army was basically because Shah Waliullah Dhelawi wrote to his mureed, Ahmed Shah Abdali to come and attack the Marathas.

There is even a book by shaykh Mubarakpuri with detailed information about the relationship of sub-continent proto-type Wahhabis and the rulers of Afghanistan.

Shah Waliullah also wrote to the Mughal Emperors of that time. The Mughal Emperors didnt do anything about it thats why Ahmed Shah Abdali went and defeated the Jatts and Marathas. A defeat they never recovered from. Shah Waliluah wasnt a Wahabi. Wahabi is the name of Allah in the 99 names. All Muslims are Wahabis.

[Badlun]

Wrong again, nice try but once again insufficient evidence based purely on a single poem, whereas multiple letters, the Tarikh, and the Ahmad Shah Namah he sanctioned are the only sources that he allowed his potential intentions to be documented.

Basically, Pashtun nationalists and militant secularists such as yourself are relying purely on innuendo or supposition whereas statements from the Ahmad Shah Namah provide concrete evidences on how he viewed his own rule:

"From this moment on he (Ahmad Shah) was turned into the "King of the seven climes (farman rawaiyaa haft iqlim) invested with a Godly mission to restore the sultanates of Iran, Hind, and Turkestan. In this heavenly task he situated himself in the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliphs."


This is supplemented by his own 4 years of peace:

"He used to hold, at stated periods, what is termed a Majlis-i-Eeulama, or Assembly of the Learned, the early part of which was generally devoted to divinity and civil law-for Ahmad Shah himself was a Molawi and concluded with conversations on science and poetry. "

http://www.khyber.org/pashtotribes/a/abdali.shtml

The nature of militant Pashtun secularists is the following:
1) Abhor Islam and chide anyone using it for Political purposes
2) Form alliances with non Muslims to subvert Muslims and their causes
3) Use outside powers to de islamicize indigenous peoples

We can see clearly that Ahmad Shah Baba, a proud Pashtun, and a concerned individual who paid homage to Caliph Mostafa did not meet these 3 criteria.

Do you think really it is Islamic to say "King of the seven climes (farman rawaiyaa haft iqlim) invested with a Godly mission to restore the sultanates of Iran, Hind, and Turkestan.

It is all rhetoric. To restore sultanates from whom? From other Muslims? Iran , Turkistan and Hind were ruled by Muslims not by Kaffirs? Did he make a single inch of non Muslim land as part of his permanent empire? No. His lasting empire included only today's Pashtunland and Afghanistan.

In this heavenly task he situated himself in the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliphs."
Heavenly task? Which heavenly task? was he sanctioned by God from heavens as his messenger? the names of the 4 caliphs are recited even today in all khutbas on friday paryers in all mosques. Its a tradition.

For God sake Dr saib, in your blind love for Islamism do not ignore the fact that Abdali did scores of unislamic acts as compared to his few rhetorical Islamic words. Let him be a Pashtun hero otherwise you will put Islam a religion of peace and love in danger by calling a mass-murderer like Abdali the hero of Islam.

[Badlun]

Wrong

1) The title has a stupid level misspelling in it (what is controvervy?)
2) He doesn't reference any of the actual subject matter and has not actually read the Tarikh, he just listed some potential references. The way that Strunk and White and the Bedford Hand Book demand referencing is that each sentence and each assertion requires a traceable citation so that we can go into the actual source, to the page and read the reference.

Basically, like your other data you provided, its pretty much useless and doesn't support your contention, which you reneged upon - but then realizing how losing the personage of Ahmad Shah Abdali for militant propaganda/Pashtun Militant Secularism would unveil the true face of that treasonous movement - you quickly backtracked.

Thankfully, your original thoughts on Ahmad Shah and your assertions about him and the comparisons between other people you find unsavory in todays world are preserved for all to see above.

A spelling mistake cannot make a site wrong contents wise, grammar wise yes.

Please give a rebuttal to the facts mentioned in the site. This is not enough that the author is Pashtun hater so what he writes will be wrong. Forget about who wrote it, refute the contents.

This is not the only site which talks about the unIslamic and nationalistic acts of Abdali Baba. Search and you will find many other similar sites.

Ahmad Shah Baba always followed and abided by the unique Afghan culture, customs and traditions. This was the reason that Afghans were always ready to defend his empire.

When Ahmad Shah Abdali became King, the Pashtuns were disintegrated and their national unity was destroyed by conspiracies and invasions by the enemies of the Afghan Nation.

He communicated with all the tribes and created an atmosphere of harmony among these tribes. Pashtuns had been living in this area for centuries but they had never been united under one leadership.Ahmad Shah Abdali united them and established a nation for them.


Ahmad Shah Abdali thought that Afghans (Pashtuns) should also have a country related to their name and thus he marked the boundaries of Afghanistan.

http://www.darkpolitricks.com/2010/07/the-revival-of-the-legacy-of-ahmad-shah-abdali-afghanistan%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cfather-of-the-nation%E2%80%9D/

One of Ahmad Shah's first acts as Emir was to adopt the title padshah durr-i durran ('King, "pearl of the age").[3] He united the Pashtun tribes following a loya jirga in western Kandahar and changed his own name from Ahmad Shah Abdali to Ahmad Shah Durrani.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durrani

Ahmad Shah Abdali and his Afghan governors killed around sixty thousand from 1753 to 1767. Abdali’s deputy, Najib-ud-Daulah, also an Afghan, slew nearly twenty thousand.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/68910222/History-of-Sikh-Misals

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Do you think really it is Islamic to say "King of the seven climes (farman rawaiyaa haft iqlim) invested with a Godly mission to restore the sultanates of Iran, Hind, and Turkestan.

No issues reconciling this statement and his belief system. Good fortunes had taken Ahmad Shah from being a refugee abroad when his father had a dooshmanee to being imprisoned by the Khan of Hotakyaan to being trained by a military leader as a youth and then ascending to a throne as a young man and winning victory after victory. He was not claiming Prophethood, but he was clear that he believed his sanction to take these areas came from Allah

It is all rhetoric.

Nice try, no historical proof or written evidence exists he was Machiavellian. We have his word and his writings and we accept them at face value as opposed to Badlun's hopeful interpolations of crafting a nonexistent atheistic version of Ahmad Shah who would have sided with Najib

To restore sultanates from whom? From other Muslims? Iran , Turkistan and Hind were ruled by Muslims not by Kaffirs?

Wrong, read his letters to both Waliullah and Mostafa. If his sole goal was conquest he would not involve the Ottomans. He in his own words wrote to Mostafa that his goal was to smash the the marathas and the Sikhs who had built the temples in Delhi which he called a dar ul Islam. He went on to burn every Sikh Temple in Delhi to the ground as his first act.

Whereas if he were a red hat dyed in the wool ANP he clearly could have garnered Maratha and Sikh sympathy and worked the same sleazy angles these sorts of militant atheistic secularists try to in accomplishing their goals.


Did he make a single inch of non Muslim land as part of his permanent empire? No. His lasting empire included only today's Pashtunland and Afghanistan.

Read his letter in Ahmad Shah Nama, in it according to Professor Gomman's translation:

"His religious and temporal scenario was aimed at the restoration of legitimate rule and punishment of dissenters, not only in Iran, but throughout all the sultanates of Hind, Iran, and Turkistan. "

Nice try to ignore the evidence from the leader himself.

In this heavenly task he situated himself in the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliphs."
Heavenly task? Which heavenly task? was he sanctioned by God from heavens as his messenger? the names of the 4 caliphs are recited even today in all khutbas on friday paryers in all mosques. Its a tradition.

Wrong, he stated this in the context of his role as a leader and how he envisioned his goals and moral imperative.

Heavenly task is in the same manner of divinely ordained monarch which was a concept throughout the world. It did not equate or supersede prophethood. Rather Ahmad Shah trusted God and believed God gave him his power and ability to act on his behalf.

For God sake Dr saib, in your blind love for Islamism do not ignore the fact that Abdali did scores of unislamic acts as compared to his few rhetorical Islamic words.

Its not about blind love, its about the criteria of who he resembles more, indigenous Pashtuns like the ones you want annihalted and murdered and destroyed or the secular militants who try to stretch history and imagination to turn him into a Marxist hero.

Let him be a Pashtun hero otherwise you will put Islam a religion of peace and love in danger by calling a mass-murderer like Abdali the hero of Islam.

That's not the discussion, the discussion is who Ahmad Shah resembles more in his ideologies and who his actions reflect more of today - pot bellied traitorous and treasonous Asfandyaar or other folks you want dead and hung. The evidence points toward the latter.

The other portion of this is irrespective of the outcomes, the emphasis falls on what Ahmad Shah viewed as his cause celebre. There is no written evidence of secular nationalism forming the basis of his moral imperitive.

In fact, according to the Pashtun national narrative, one of the reasons Pashtun Nationalists hate religionists is that they feel religion has been used as a control tool to send Pashtuns to war and that it should not be a moral imperitive. In that very way, Ahmad Shah would view Pashtun Militant Secularists as an anathema.

Give it up Badlun Saheb, your militant secularism has blinded you, but thankfully we have your repeated concessions about how you really view Ahmad Shah, the indigenous quintiessential Pashtun.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Do you think really it is Islamic to say "King of the seven climes (farman rawaiyaa haft iqlim) invested with a Godly mission to restore the sultanates of Iran, Hind, and Turkestan.

It is all rhetoric. To restore sultanates from whom? From other Muslims? Iran , Turkistan and Hind were ruled by Muslims not by Kaffirs? Did he make a single inch of non Muslim land as part of his permanent empire? No. His lasting empire included only today's Pashtunland and Afghanistan.

In this heavenly task he situated himself in the early associates of the Prophet and the first rightly guided caliphs."
Heavenly task? Which heavenly task? was he sanctioned by God from heavens as his messenger? the names of the 4 caliphs are recited even today in all khutbas on friday paryers in all mosques. Its a tradition.

For God sake Dr saib, in your blind love for Islamism do not ignore the fact that Abdali did scores of unislamic acts as compared to his few rhetorical Islamic words. Let him be a Pashtun hero otherwise you will put Islam a religion of peace and love in danger by calling a mass-murderer like Abdali the hero of Islam.

I agree with you; but Barakzai's evidence is stronger than yours; you claim he was a Pashtun nationalist When he betrayed Pashtuns and helped a Turkoman claim Pashtun homelands as his own. Barakzai claims he wanted to restore an Islamic Khilafah, but he certainly did Unislamic acts. The fact is, Abdali despite his Unislamic acts ENVISIONED an Islamic Society; maybe he was inspired by Shah Waliyullah's words; but whatever the case he saw the Other Muslims as "fallen" and his intention was clearly geared towards Islam as authority ....the problem was Ahmad Shah Abdali's idea of Islam as he practiced it himself was warped.