Afghanistan And Pakhtuns' Destiny

[khyaal]

I am not expecting it from her anyway.

Personal attacks are not part of political debates, it is a sign of frustration, ill logic, and mirror of your character. PakistaniWazir if he abuse should be reported and kicked out.

lastly you didnt answer what I asked, what was in my last sentence that you were all smiles about?

"
The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.
"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself] "And it smells of sulfur still today."

An extract from Chevez's speech in the UN. The devil is an allusion to Bush.

[muhsina]

Nothing special. I just smiled to you.

Khyaal........khyaal de dey....hahahahahaah....da prado na ba se gila oko.

[PakistaniWazir]

they never answer with logically answers

i noticed on this forum many of those who r radically pro pashtunistan are swore at and insulted by afghanis themselves

afghanis then give their demands to pakistani pashtuns and blackmail them of their pashtun identity as if afghanistan is a pashtun state where tajikis and hazaras and uzbeks r also called afghanis

in pakistan punjabis r not called pashtuns and they dont insult u for that

in afghanistan pashtuns r called afghanis so r tajikis and co

i asked them quite clearly what benefit does afghanistan have for pashtuns when in past they sold our land to british they betray us 1000s of times

even in waziristan my forefathers fought against british army and no afghanis supported them, it was italians and germanyun who helped but afghanis stopped this to please soviet union

[khyaal]

Khyaal........khyaal de dey....hahahahahaah....da prado na ba se gila oko.

aw nu mahkomee kho daa ghul paida kawee nu.

[muhsina]

1) I am saying what you said, also Ahmad shah Baba was our hero and if someone tell you that it will always be with the intention to honour you, you know the reputation of ranjeet and anyone with common sense will know that you were insultive, lastly he is not punjabay just like if i call you da bush bachiya. also how is it related to the topic.

2) and i am too stupid for this can you clearly tell me what exactly is your point?

My dear eusaphxai

The reputation of Ranjeet Singh is very good for Punjabis that is why he is their hero. Ranjit Singh was the Governor of Punjab installed by Ahmed shah baba. Are you dreaming? How do you know he is not Punjabay?

2) Your second comment made my night. Thank you for giving me a laugh after a long time. @Khyaal be careful in future. Dont smile at eusaphxai. He gets offended.

[eusuphxai]

"
The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself, is right in the house.
"And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here. Right here." [crosses himself] "And it smells of sulfur still today."

An extract from Chevez's speech in the UN. The devil is an allusion to Bush.

I told you I am so stupid as i couldnt get the normal easy sentence how do you expect me to understand this,

And thanks for the smile. Allah dhay abad lara

@Muhsina I am glad za stha pashan da khalko khpal na yam

[eusuphxai]

My dear eusaphxai

The reputation of Ranjeet Singh is very good for Punjabis that is why he is their hero. Ranjit Singh was the Governor of Punjab installed by Ahmed shah baba. Are you dreaming? How do you know he is not Punjabay?

2) Your second comment made my night. Thank you for giving me a laugh after a long time. @Khyaal be careful in future. Dont smile at eusaphxai. He gets offended.

Firstly I don't agree that any punjabee is proud to say that Ranjeet singh was their leader, specially after they converted to Islam,

I will ask you how do you know he is Punjabay? LIke you claim to be a girl and you claim to be hindko speaker but the way you act tell me the opposite but I trust you for what you say Because IT DOES NOT MATTER, what matter is what you are saying, and mostly you talk BS.

and I am glad I made your day, unfortunately I am not an emotional person so all these sarcastic comment wont have any effect , yes you can do it to make yourself happy

[Dawezai]

Ijaz Yousafzai saib, I am afraid my earlier post has been consigned to oblivion. Leaving that aside, could you please enlighten us on the following:

1. How we are going to initiate and implement the process of making Pashtunistan? And,

2. What provinces of Afghanistan will constitute Pashtunistan?
Thanks.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Ijaz Yousafzai saib, I am afraid my earlier post has been consigned to oblivion. Leaving that aside, could you please enlighten us on the following:

1. How we are going to initiate and implement the process of making Pashtunistan? And,

2. What provinces of Afghanistan will constitute Pashtunistan?
Thanks.

Kunar
Loghar
Wardak
Ghazni
Uruzgan
Farah
Nimruz
Helmand
Kandahar
Kabul
Zabul
Khost
Paktia
Paktika
Nangahar

[KhalsaWarrior]

My dear eusaphxai

The reputation of Ranjeet Singh is very good for Punjabis that is why he is their hero. Ranjit Singh was the Governor of Punjab installed by Ahmed shah baba. Are you dreaming? How do you know he is not Punjabay?

Hi, I apologize for butting in but I thought I would make a small correction there - Ranjeet Singh wasn't installed by Ahmed Shah as Lahore's governor. He fought his way to the Lahore throne by uniting the Sikh confederacies and defeated the Afghan governor of Lahore.

[ijaz yousafzai]

Yousafzai saib, thanks for sharing your ideas. I enjoyed reading your article albeit, with reservations. Your article and comments raise some questions which I would like to present to you for your kind consideration.

What evidence do we have to authenticate 'the persianiasation [of Pashtuns] in Afghanistan'? And how do we define this 'persianisation'?

Thank you. Persianization is an overwhelming phenomenon in Afghanistan, which is absorbing the Pakhtuns' language and culture with the passage of time. Pakhtuns are losing their languge with alarming pace. In the population of 62 percent Pakhtuns, only 55 percent speak Pashto.It is ironical that Pakhtuns are in absolute majority in Afghanistan but Pashto is a junior National language. In other countries the National and Cultural language is the language of the majorities. For example, Persian in Iran,Tajiki in Tajikistan,Uzbeki in Uzbekistan,Turki in Turki, are the only one language enjoying the status of the National languge, which are spoken by the major nation of Faras,Tajik,Uzbek and Turk respectively. Mohammad Inam Waak says in an article, " Afghani tolana ( Afghan society) have several " National Groups",in which Pakhtuns are 62.73%, Tajik are 12.38%,Hazara are 9% Uzbek are 6% Turkaman are 2.69% Emaq are 2.68%( WFA,The Ethnic Composition Of Afghanistan. A six year survey and research, 1991-1996) Every national group except the Tajik, has lost its language in Afghanistan. A considerable number of Pakhtuns have converted to Dari in Northern Afghanistan,Kabul,North-West Afghanistan. Almost all Hazara have converted to Dari. Loss of a language yields in weakening of national cohesion in the losers.According to a study, 7.73% Pakhtuns have converted to Dari, inhabiting Kabul, Parwan, Ghor,BadGhees,Hirat and Farah.The UNIDATA study compiled by the United Nations, has highlighted that .3% Uzbek,1.29% Turkaman and almost all the Emaq have converted to Dari and lost their mother tongue. This langual change has risen Tajik from its demograpic strenghth of 12.38% to 33%. Louis Dupree has also confirmed these facts in " AFGHANISTAN " page 59-62 ( Princeton University, New York).

What can we expect from the state of Afghanistan today keeping in view the fragile condition of the state of Afghanistan itself?

I am not optimistic about the role of the state of Afghanistan in this respect. Pakhtun nation has to wake up from its slumber. We should not take refuge in the fallacies of " Millat" etc, a short-term political agenda. We need a true Pakhtun leadership matching the size of our present problems.

Is a pure Pashtun state, geographically and demographically, possible?

Thanks.

Who told you about a "pure Pakhtun state". Our destiny lies in a Pakhtun nation-state, ruled by the Pakhtuns for the Pakhtuns, where other groups can co-exist with dignity and honor respecting the leading role of the Pakhtuns.

[ijaz yousafzai]

I am now responding to your article above Ijaz wrora.

Bismillah. Raza pe wrora .---Btw your Nickname is very dangerous and speaks a lot

[khyaal]

In Pakistan the case is much much different. We have been forced to use Urdu/hindi. In afghanistan, perhaps, it is to look sophisticated when one speaks dari, and people speak dari there by their own free will.

[khyaal]

@ Ijaz Yousafzai,

Please read this article and I hope you will find answers to most of your questions.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/89487-post1.html

[ijaz yousafzai]

I would like to start by thanking you in taking your time to write such a worthwhile reading article. I read it a week ago at work and I was pleased to be in the same website as an intellectual yourself. I hope you do not mind me questioning certain parts of the article to have a better understanding.

Thank you very much for your kind words. I am not an intellectual as you called me, but a plain, straight forward Pakhtun nationalist with a meagre knoweldge. I believe that I am still learning and want to benefit from sensible people like you. I appreciate that your out look is positive by reading your post and that's why I am replying to your questions with the handicap of my little knoweldge.

You said it has turned Persianized so I already know how you define a Pashtun, I assume you are more linguistically concerned then the ethnicity itself. Kabul is still Pashtun Majority with approximately 60 percent Pashtun. Now my question to Ijaz saiba is, Is this not our own fault? We are too busy banning televisions and promoting a hard-core version of Islam that we forgot to write books and scientific papers in our own language. We have a beautiful language but we dont speak it.

Language is the loudest apostle of a particular culture. If a Pakhtun is unfortunate enough to lose his language, then in the words of an Afghan intellectual, the only course to testify his pedigree is to carry out his DNA test.In other words if some Pakhtun who can not speak his mother tongue Pakhto and is proud to be a Pakhtun by blood, then he has to be carried to the labortory for a blood test for determining his ethnicity. Well, this was a lighter version of the issue. In my definition a Pakhtun is a person, who is a Pakhtun by lineage, who speaks Pashto and who does Pashto ( Che Pukhto waayee ao Pukhto kawee). Parsi/Dari is the language of Tajik group alone, in Afghanistan, but it has swallowed a considerable segments of the Pakhtuns and others, which is known as persianization of the Pakhtuns. Look Pakhtuns are 62% of the population by ethnicity,but only 55% speak Pashto.This has prompted several international agencies to fabricate "politicised percentage" of national composition in Afghanistan, relegating the Pakhtuns ,politically by elevating the Parsiwans.The Pakhtuns who speak Dari, have been counted as members of the Tajik-Uzbek confedracy. It has shown Pakhtuns lowered down from 62.73% to 40.38% in Afghanistan,dismantling the political edge of Pakhtuns. It is a common specticle in urban area(Kabul etc) that 2 Pakhtuns speak Dari, while making conversation.The 55% lingual group of Pakhtuns has been depicted as 40.38% by international agencies( CIA etc), which is very alarming for the major Pakhtun nation.To the dismay of a true Pakhtun nationalist, an imaginary representation of mere 38% was fixed for the Pakhtuns, in Bonn Conference-2001.Ironically these agencies have elevated Dari lingual composition in Afghanistan from 33% to 48%. Nothing could be more alarming than this, politically for the Pakhtuns. Now if political shares are made on the scale of lingual considerations, then Pakhtuns will get as losers.This is tantamount to rendering the majority as a minority in Afghanistan. Kabul is a typical example of " Persianization" of the Pakhtuns. You are correct to say that we have majority by lineage but a miserable minority in language and cultural perspective. The little percentage of Pashto speakers in Kabul has turned the whole demographic complexion of Kabul.
You have rightly pointed out to the " fault" of the Pakhtuns and their allegiance to conservativism, mullahism and closing our doors to modernism and literacy. But certain other elements are also contributory, specially our own soverigns.However, King Zahir Shah had a positive aspect of encouraging authorship in Pashto by giving away big prizes ( though he could not speak his mother tongue, Pashto). Men of pen used to write voluminous books by making repetitions, as prizes were given away according to the volumes and not onthe subject matter. Do you believe that respected Ustad Abdul Hai Habibi, a brilliant star of the "Five Stars Of Pashto" had large authorship in Parsi and only a few in Pashto. Similar dismal position is glaring when we turn the page of Pasto literaure. 360 years of Pakhtun Rule could not bring Pakhtuns' self- reliance in Pashto language andPakhtun culture in Afghanistan.

In Pakistan when a politician wants to sound educated they begin to talk in Urdu and in Afghanistan its Dari. How can we tackle this and where do we begin with? I am a Pashtun Nationalist I care for all people but my biggest concern is with Pashtuns. How did we allow a ethnicity of 20 percent to take over us?

This is our real dilemma.WE are being eaten up by Urdu on one side and by Parsi on the other. We need true Pakhtun leadership on both sides of the infamous Durand. A maxim in Pashto says, che " Mara kheta Parsi waayee", means a Pakhtun when gets prosperous, then he converts to Parsi. Similar is the case with Pakhtuns of Eastern side to switch over to Urdu. We desperately need true leadership,instilling Pakhtun nationalism and modern education with our Pakhtun national ferver, otherwise we will be subdued by a minority in Afghanistan and swallowed by quagmire of majority in Pakistan.

----Other points later -nor bya