Pakhtun, afghan & pathan

[Badlun]

The name you have just mentioned is a mixture of urdu/hindi or english rules. In english the people of iran are called iranian and irani in urdu/hindi, the people of india are called indian in english and hindustani in urdu/hindi and hindustanian in Pashto.

My imbecile friend! You have been repeatedly told that afghani is the name of currency and not nation.

I wish we could discuss here like civilized nations without calling names to each other, without calling each other negros, insane and imbecile as a friend has called me all these three at the same time. these discouraging and taunting tactics wont leave a positive impression but will show the emptiness and short temperdness of a so called intelelctual brain. Challenge the words not the writer.

Afghanistan is a Persian word then if you dont like Persian syntax then chnage it and give it a Pashto name. This syntax issue of other languages has nothing to do with the words like Afghanistani or Pakistani or Irani. Pashtun have persian, Arabic , Urdu and even English names of places, persons and things and if Afghanistani is used as the name for the people of Afghanistan then it wont be a linguistic disaster and skies wont fall. It will not be as a blunder as calling non Afghans as Afghans which is like calling Arab as Turk.

I used Afghani as the name of the currency of Afghanistan , Afghanistani for the people of Afghanistan and Afghan as another name for Pashtuns. Please read my posts with a little bit attention before calling me imbecile.

[Badlun]

@osho, I will give you another example. in Pakistan Punjab's language is Punjabi, that of Sindh is Sindhi, Seraikistan has Seraiki language but the language of Pakhtunkhwa is Pashto and not Pashtoi. We have altoghether different syntactic rule and this naming rule permits only the word afghan for this nation which fits perfectly in Pashto linguistic structure.

All languages have their partticular morphology, synatx, semantics, phonology andpragmatics as well psycholinguistics, sociolinguistics, phonemes, morphemes and phonetics. If there are languages sounding Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi etc it does not mean that Pashto will also become Pashtoi becaus ealraedy it has a name which is Pashto for the language and Pashtun for the people who speak this language.

These languages like Sindhi, Punjabi , Seraiki which are spoken in Pakistan by their respectable communities are not the only one ending in I or EE but also we have other non Pakistani languages ending with the same ending like Arabi, farsi, etc. Similarly we have names of languages of other rhymes and rhythms and intonation like English, German Spanish etc.

these endings is not the issue here. the issue is that how can non Afghan like Tajiks can be called by a name Afghan which is not theirs and many these non Afghans dont want to be called by this name , in the same way as many real Afghans or Pashtuns call them Afghans becaus esimply they are not Afghans. Inventing a name like Afghanistani will not be a big issue which will be acceptable to all Afghans and non Afghans equally.

[Badlun]

@osho! btw, why do you so insist on attaching the letter "i" with the word afghan? Have acquired this habit in the Paaki brainwash factory? Does it give you some sort of satisfaction when you call or write Pashto words according to urdu/hindi rule?

I dont have any special love for the words ending with I . As already explained this I has nothing to do only with Urdu or Hindi languages as we have also languages like farsi or Arabi. By the way Urdu is not ending with I.

I recommend the word Afghanistani which is more Persian than Urdu or Hindi. I am not brainwashed by any one. I just have an idea which if you like accept it if not reject with counter arguments but no one has the right on blaming others of things which one has no proof and why should we personalize our discussions. We are here to share and learn not make friends aor enemies. Have I ever called you that you have been brainwashed by Iranians or Tajiks or any anti Pakistan element . Even I dont remember I have ever taken yoiur name.

[Badlun]

OSHO I have never in my life heard someone call it Pashtoi it's probably a typo.

I also have never heard nor used Pashtoi for Pashto or Pashtuns. Why should I use it if alraedy we have the words Pashto and Pashtuns. This was another friend who used as an example that as other languages end with I then by this anology we should use Pashtoi but as I already explained that each language has its own way of morphology and the words are formed according to the particularities of these languages.

The issue is using Afghans for non Afghans not changing the alraedy existing words like Pashto or Pashtuns which are not controversial.

[khyaal]

I wish we could discuss here like civilized nations without calling names to each other, without calling each other negros, insane and imbecile as a friend has called me all these three at the same time. these discouraging and taunting tactics wont leave a positive impression but will show the emptiness and short temperdness of a so called intelelctual brain. Challenge the words not the writer.

Yes I admit it that some words might offend, but it is a general trend of some friends here that they ask the same questions repeatedly which have already been replied. Anyway, you can use the same words about me and I assure you that I won't mind.

Afghanistan is a Persian word then if you dont like Persian syntax then chnage it and give it a Pashto name.

Look Osho! As I said before you missed some important posts in this forum. Another friend Nick has already discussed this issue in detail whether the word Afghan is realy a persian word or not, you please read it. What I learn from it is that it is still disputed and we don't have conclusive proof to prove that it is a persian word. The word Pakistan is also a persian word though its people with the exception of Baloch (btw, Baloch land was occupied in 1948 by Pakistan after one year of its creation by the British) and Pashtuns are Indic. Then it would be most appropriate for Pakistanis to change the name of their country since unlike Afghans they don't have any common ethnic bond with Persians.

In my opinion the most appropriate name for Afghanistan should have been Iran; the land of the Aryans, and that of Iran should have been their old name Persia or Fars.

This syntax issue of other languages has nothing to do with the words like Afghanistani or Pakistani or Irani. Pashtun have persian, Arabic , Urdu and even English names of places, persons and things and if Afghanistani is used as the name for the people of Afghanistan then it wont be a linguistic disaster and skies wont fall.

When we take back our occupied land from Pakistan then we shall be at ease and shall have the opportunity whether to change name of our land or keep it the same. This is not a proper time for changing names, this is a non-issue at the moment for Afghans, and as loyal Pakistani you should make such experiments inside Pakistan where even uninhibited social engineering always goes on against the people of subjugated nations, be it extremism, terrorism, wahabism. Such experiments should be carried out against the guinea pigs in Pakistan since Pakistan is always fond of turning non issues into issues to befool its poeple.

It will not be as a blunder as calling non Afghans as Afghans which is like calling Arab as Turk.

Yes this is no blunder in Afghanistan if all the people are identified as Afghans, but in the case of Pakistan, it is the controversial history of the creation of this country by the British which is an obstacle in turning Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhis and Seraikis into Pakistanis. Everybody knows the way Pakistan was created.

I used Afghani as the name of the currency of Afghanistan , Afghanistani for the people of Afghanistan and Afghan as another name for Pashtuns. Please read my posts with a little bit attention before calling me imbecile.

But being the loyal citizen of Pakistan why don't you give such suggestions to Pakistan which, as I told before, is always engaged in carrying out even social experiments with the people inside Pakistan?

[khyaal]

All languages have their partticular morphology, synatx, semantics, phonology andpragmatics as well psycholinguistics, sociolinguistics, phonemes, morphemes and phonetics.

Yes I know that.

If there are languages sounding Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi etc it does not mean that Pashto will also become Pashtoi becaus ealraedy it has a name which is Pashto for the language and Pashtun for the people who speak this language.

And that is what I'm telling you. But the people of Iraq don't speak Iraqi nor the people of Egypt speak egypti. These conventions are different everywhere. There is no universal convention for such issues and each nation or country has its own rules and conventions.

By the way, why doesn't Pakistan invent its own language for its people in punjab and Karachi which will be called "Pakistani" and the the official name of the people will be PAKISTANANI? Pakistan's name and the name of its official language also doesn't match.

These languages like Sindhi, Punjabi , Seraiki which are spoken in Pakistan by their respectable communities are not the only one ending in I or EE but also we have other non Pakistani languages ending with the same ending like Arabi, farsi, etc. Similarly we have names of languages of other rhymes and rhythms and intonation like English, German Spanish etc.

As I said before, there is no universal convention for linguistic matters and nomenclature, it evolves naturally with time. In Pakistan you have got a habit of manufacturing ideas, conventions and traditions that is why you expect such fabrication from everybody.

these endings is not the issue here. the issue is that how can non Afghan like Tajiks can be called by a name Afghan which is not theirs

Do you know the origin or meaning of the word Tajik? It is not the name of a particular ethnic group. It is like the word 'AJAM' (non Arabs). The word Tajik would be used for those people who were the first to convert to Islam, and initially it was the word Tazi( means Arabised) which later on changed to Tajik,. It was a derogatory label used for those converted people.

and many these non Afghans dont want to be called by this name , in the same way as many real Afghans or Pashtuns call them Afghans becaus esimply they are not Afghans.

Why do you call ALL People inside Pakistan as Pakistanis where historically Pakistan means that part of India which seceded from its parent land. Why do they call we Pakhtuns and Baloch as Pakistani where we have never been part of India? For your information, the word British India would only indicate the the land under the British influence and never meant the extension of Indian border. Read the book "Afghanistan" by Louis Dupree.

Inventing a name like Afghanistani will not be a big issue which will be acceptable to all Afghans and non Afghans equally.

You can't conceal pakistani filth by raising issues in Afghanistan. It is a non issue for afghans, go and give such advices to Pakistan which massacred three million Bengalis over more real issues than this one. This is purely an academic issue and doesn't exist on the ground.

[khyaal]

I recommend the word Afghanistani which is more Persian than Urdu or Hindi. I am not brainwashed by any one. I just have an idea which if you like accept it if not reject with counter arguments but no one has the right on blaming others of things which one has no proof and why should we personalize our discussions. We are here to share and learn not make friends aor enemies. Have I ever called you that you have been brainwashed by Iranians or Tajiks or any anti Pakistan element . Even I dont remember I have ever taken yoiur name.

Look Osho!

It took us Pakhtuns 63 years to rename our occupied land from NWFP to Khyber Pukhtunkhwa. For 63 long years Pakistan mocked us and refused to give us our historical name. Could Jinna or Liaqat Ali keep the names of even their childeren as ABC or XYZ?

Pakistan kept on this ridiculing game with us for 63 years ?

[ijaz yousafzai]

Afghan is an ethnicity aswell as a citizenship and everyone knows that pashtun are native to Afghanistan, in khushal khan baba's words'' the arabs know this and the romans knows this''. that afghan is pashtun and that pashtun is afghan.

It is very much true that Afghan is Pashtun and Pashtun is Afghan, but what will you call a Tajik and Uzbek etc? We are only skeptic to "generalization" of the name for all the citizens of Afghanistan. Franky if a Tajik of Afghanistan is called Afghan then I am not comfortable to be called as Afghan but a Pakhtun.

[eyeliner]

^ i understand where your coming from, but tajiks of afghanistan are afghan citizens. For e.g. when a pashtun lives in an other country e.g. england, then they are british citizens but it does not mean that they are english.

[eyeliner]

afghan is not a race

nope but it is an ethnic group aswell as a citizenship.

[ijaz yousafzai]

^ i understand where your coming from,.

What do you mean? I am a staunch Pakhtun/Afghan nationalist hailing from Pakhtunkhwa and I am concerned that some power mongers Afghan elites have disrobed me of my historical name " Afghan" and extended it to Non- Pakhtun/Non-Afghan citizens of Afghanistan for consolidating their rule, without taking us on board.

[ijaz yousafzai]

^ -------, but tajiks of afghanistan are afghan citizens. For e.g. when a pashtun lives in an other country e.g. england, then they are british citizens but it does not mean that they are english.

Now this is clear. It means you are confining the name "Afghan" for the citizens of Afghanistan only. But tell me, what should I do, as I am a Pakhtun, living in Pakhtunkhwa ( not a citizen of Afghanistan) where my revenue record shows me as an " Afghan". Have you the authority to strip me of my historical identity? and give it to a non - Pashtun to suit your political needs.

[ijaz yousafzai]

I am a Pakhtun/ Afghan residing in Peshawar. I am not an Afghani but Afghan. Similarly a Tajik of Afghanistan is an Afghani but not an Afghan. This is the viable correction to the appellation " Afghan", which has been incorrectly adopted in Afghanistan.
Ijaz saib Afghani is the name of Afghan currency and is not the name of a nation. We are afghans as we all have proclaimed this in our domicile forms and our ID cards, though during the MMA government they changed the format of the domicile forms and removed the ethnicity option.
Anyway we still can call ourselves as the citizen of occupied Afghan land and I personally do this.

You must know the great pan-Islamist Jamal-Ud-Din Afghani.Well, as Osho sugested you can use Afghanistani for all the citizens of Afghanistan but " Afghan" should be particularized for Pakhtuns only. Afghan is a trans-border nation who reside in several geographical confinements, not alone in Afghanistan. If you are an Afghan in your domicile and ID card, that is your real identity but not an identity of a non-Pakhtun. As a Hindkowan of Peshawar is not an Afghan, similarly a Tajik of Afghanistan is not an Afghan but an Afghani/ Afghanistani. With regards!

[ijaz yousafzai]

But in the 21st century when Pashtuns constitute less than 50 percent of the Afghan population is it fair to say Afghan = Pashtun? knowing Uzbejs, Tajiks all say they are Afghan now? We can start a new topic on this and discuss this.

This is the the real design to disrob the major ethnic power "Pashtun" ( 62 percent in accordance with WAK Foundation statistics) of their leading role in Afghanistan. If Tajiks and Uzbeks have turned as Afghans, then what will you call Hindkis and Hazaras living in Shomali and Janobi Pakhtunkhwa?

[eyeliner]

Ive noticied a few people mention that on their revenue card it says afghan and a domicile ID Card, but what does that mean?