Genghis Khan Fate in Afghanistan (?)

[Kushan Prince]

The passion's of tribal simpletons, slipping on foolish folklore Kushan isn't that some half bred oriental people?

Provide the evidence that Alexander lost, he continued his pursuit of world dominance, some would attribute divinely inspired how a man with small army could crush the Persian empire with all its resources on horse back.

Alexander left forts, cities named after him etc..evident from the following believe it or not makes no difference to me.

1.historians countless.
2.bible Daniel 8:7,8
3 Koran Qur'an 18:85+ Ddhul qarnian

You use western sources as your proof of plasuable sources, when infact them, mostly the Brits will say something negative about Afghanistan. After all, they lost 3 wars there, and are know looking to tarnish its image by publishing lies. This is why i have second doubts about Britannica. I second with my friend khushal here. No place or region can be given the tittle the graveyard of empires so easily. That's where empires go to die. Including your beloved Alexander who BTW murdered countless people in his campaign to further his empire. Afghans as a whole are not welcoming to people who arrive one day with swords and bow's with full plated armour. It's obvious they want to take over their land. Also on your claim on Ddhul Qarnyan, Also known as the "2 horned one" was a believer in god ,while Alexander was a pagan who didn't. Notice to mention the ddhul also constructed the a great wall, which could be the great wall of china, to keep out Magog and Gog. The wall was built a hundred years after Alexander. So your theory is proven to be nothing but utter nonsense.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Once I see casinos in Waziristan and Arghandaab where blue eyed blond haired folks named Tim and Gina call themselves Tim Wazir and Gina Dorani and claim 1/38 Afghan blood then I will concede. Otherwise - the verdict is still out.

Hahaha.. I love the native American reference there.

Anyway, I thought I'd add this to the discussion:

The Afghan Khilji dynasty that was ruling India during the time of the Mongol invasion defeated the Mongol hordes on several occasions, saving parts of Afghanistan and all of India from Mongol slaughter for generations in the process.

Furthermore, the Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia (and hence Afghanistan) didn't last more than 40 years. 40 years isn't enough to annex a mountainous country with a fractious and divided population, let alone conquer it.

When we talk about conquests, we talk about the great conquests of Rome or those of the British Empire. Both empires successfully implemented their laws and way of life in their imperial possessions. They also permanently changed not only the infrastructure of their conquered lands but also the character of the people that lived on them. All Roman provinces in Europe speak languages that are either highly influences by Latin or originate from it. Roman law was practiced in Western Europe well after the fall of Rome. Roman customs were taken up by the conquered Europeans and North Africans. Roman gods (which were also living Roman emperors in some cases) were worshiped by Rome's conquered people. Similarly, the British have spread their language, literature and ideals throughout their empire.

Those are instances of conquests. Mind you, Rome's provinces, despite having been defeated, prospered in most cases by coming under Rome's protection. Similarly, the British transformed India from a sub-continent of pretty buildings to a democratic, united and forward-looking country. That is why it is said of Afghanistan that it suffered all the negative effects of colonialism without gaining a single positive effect.

In any case, the Afghan people have never been conquered in such a manner. Not by the Turks, the Mughals or the British.

[khushal]

, the British transformed India from a sub-continent of pretty buildings to a democratic, united and forward-looking country. That is why it is said of Afghanistan that it suffered all the negative effects of colonialism without gaining a single positive effect.

Actually thats not true, India was more plundered for its resources than propelled forward by the british. The Brits considered India its jewel because of the resources it was plundering to sustain and propel the British Empire forward. Look at its Economic power before the British administration and then compare it to during the British Rule. It was an economic superpower before the Brits took it over.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hahaha.. I love the native American reference there.

Anyway, I thought I'd add this to the discussion:

The Afghan Khilji dynasty that was ruling India during the time of the Mongol invasion defeated the Mongol hordes on several occasions, saving parts of Afghanistan and all of India from Mongol slaughter for generations in the process.

Furthermore, the Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia (and hence Afghanistan) didn't last more than 40 years. 40 years isn't enough to annex a mountainous country with a fractious and divided population, let alone conquer it.

When we talk about conquests, we talk about the great conquests of Rome or those of the British Empire. Both empires successfully implemented their laws and way of life in their imperial possessions. They also permanently changed not only the infrastructure of their conquered lands but also the character of the people that lived on them. All Roman provinces in Europe speak languages that are either highly influences by Latin or originate from it. Roman law was practiced in Western Europe well after the fall of Rome. Roman customs were taken up by the conquered Europeans and North Africans. Roman gods (which were also living Roman emperors in some cases) were worshiped by Rome's conquered people. Similarly, the British have spread their language, literature and ideals throughout their empire.

Those are instances of conquests. Mind you, Rome's provinces, despite having been defeated, prospered in most cases by coming under Rome's protection. Similarly, the British transformed India from a sub-continent of pretty buildings to a democratic, united and forward-looking country. That is why it is said of Afghanistan that it suffered all the negative effects of colonialism without gaining a single positive effect.

In any case, the Afghan people have never been conquered in such a manner. Not by the Turks, the Mughals or the British.

LZ, re-read in detail the history of British India. There was a lot of subterfuge and gaming going on compadre. Its not so simple. They favored various factions, even going so far as to tear the doors off of Ghaznavi's tomb and claim they were the "Gates of Somnoth." The common refrain from the die hard leftists in Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan is that some sort of pseudo historical revisionism is going on from the far right. If these folks can explain the Gates of Somnoth incident to me then I may stand corrected but until then, I think its rather obvious that it is the most decisive piece of evidence that the British colluded with local Hindus, Parsis, and minority supposedly Muslim sects to decimate sunni ascendency.

"Those critical of Ellenborough were fearful of the consequences: they saw the fetching of the gates as supporting a native religion and that too the monstrous Linga-ism as they called it; and they felt that its political consequences would be violent indignation among the Mohammadans. Those supporting Ellenborough in the House of Commons argued equally vehemently that he was removing the feeling of degradation from the minds of the Hindus. It would "... relieve that country, which had been overrun by the Mohammadan conqueror, from the painful feelings which had been rankling amongst the people for nearly a thousand years." And that, "... the memory of the gates (has been) preserved by the Hindus as a painful memorial of the most devastating invasions that had ever desolated Hindustan." "

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_thapar_somnath.html

Natives such as Mohammad Jauhar and Ghandi were instrumental in gaining Indian independence with one playing the bad cop (militant role) and good cop (worldly ambassador role).

You are writing as if the Mughal's were some cavemen and that the native cultures as far back as Chandra Gupta and Asoka left behind no valuable developmental systems for their people.

The one current advantage the Indo Paks were left with was mastery of English and the ability to seemlessly transition, on immigration, to utilizing the colonial language abroad in other former British colonies. This has had a huge impact in folks in my field. Indo Paks are massively represented compared to Arabs, Persians, and many Asian subgroups because they have access to English and are able to take their USMLE exams abroad.

We also have to, as I always harp, consider CONFOUNDERS when we examine your statement about Afghanistan. One confounder is that a nation constantly at war may have limited progression:
Take two families living next door to one another: a well to do stable family and a family with constant strife and abuse next door. Whose kids are going to have a stable study environment and feel safe at night? Countries are emblematic of the individuals that comprise them and their struggles.

People like Rory Stewart talk about the 50 year era of peace - and that actually was a time period in which Afghan Physicians inundated the world. But otherwise, since the early 1700s Afghanistan and its Pashtun territories have been in a state of perpetual war and invasion by Persians, Sikhs, Britishers, Russians, and now Americans.

Therefore, I would venture to say that relative lack of turbulence in India and other decisions enforced by the British, coupled to the subsequent events and trade partners India acquired have also been a crucial part of India's rise (still not a super power by any measure).

Finally, they British ruled on behalf of Victoria and were by no means enforcing democracy in their colonies. In george III's time this very fact was what would lead to American independence.

Yes, they were not apparently Roman where they would systematically subdue and massacre all that walked - and they eventually did have an Alexandrian mentality about allowing their conquered peoples some degree of favor (hence the reason that Syed Amir Ali was able to serve as the first Judge of Indo Muslim background earlier in the last century in Britania itself). They were however committed imperialists and did not want to see the subjugated reach their full potential either.

[Shahidulla]

better is has afghans/pashtuns ever been defeated ? yes serveral times.

have they ever been conquered? NO, because there was always resistance and anyone denieng this is a fool, or just some random hater like revolution.

And bitches please, there are countless historicans's and political leaders who said serveral times that afghanistan is never been conquered, so who are these litle worms explaining us that we are conquered?I mean the invadors himself wrote about afghanistan like alexander the great.

I know some haters joined this forum to gossip on afghans/pashtuns but they are nothing compared to historical facts and statements
case cleared and closed.

[NANGYALE]

nice

[Apollyon]

^^ you have not demonstrated anything constructive. Resistance never ended that is why he had a mutany on his hands. Not only did he nearly die from a native kunarian arrow but also from his own men that thought he was going insane to continue the afghan campaign. You must understand why this place is called the graveyard of Empires. Empires get trapped in Afghanistan because they lose so much blood and wealth to try to control it, they dont want to give in and think that the already spilled blood and lost resources was at a loss, they keep going on and on trying to make sense of it and refuse to allow the fallen to be shamed, but the conclusion is the same and they everntually realize it is no use like an addicted gambler who never realizes that he/she should cut his/her loses and walk away.

The measurement of wealth by fiat paper currency against Gold is very inaccurate. Gold is not legal tender it is-was the true measure of wealth since the creation of coinage, look up wealth in in a dictionaries pre-1930.

The first coin mintage in Lydia-Turkey-Greece partial gold.


Afghanistan is not considered holy land before or today (the most expensive piece of real estate Jerusalem). Alexander went east, west, south and north and A trifling annoyance is all he faced in all of Persia, Arabia, Africa, Turkey, Nooristan or Persia. Prince's, Kings, Looters, Tyrants consider Afghanistan a place to test your swordsmanship nothing more nothing less.

Historical Notes

Koran 9:69 like those before you; they were stronger than you in power and more abundant in wealth and children.

Koran 18:84 Indeed We established him upon the earth, and We gave him to everything a way.

Koran 18:95 He said, "That in which my Lord has established me is better

Alexander a just visionary not concerned with personal gain, a single man on horseback dominating every place he stepped foot not the unsuccessful Empires of India, Persia, or British. Alexander established a united Afghanistan, built it as a modern city and established business and peace.

[khushal]

^^OK, what ever you say. he went there to test his swordmanship and faced a mutany by his soldiers on purpose. It was his plan to have his army officers turn against him to test himself. you loony.

[ډګروال]

^^OK, what ever you say. he went their to test his swormanship and faced a mutany by his soldiers on purpose. It was his plan to have his army officers turn against him to test himself. you loony.

preda yee
os ar yaw teezan da edha ganey kayee che mung sara samoon welarey.

pe tandar yee wola

[Apollyon]

^^OK, what ever you say. he went their to test his swormanship and faced a mutany by his soldiers on purpose. It was his plan to have his army officers turn against him to test himself. you loony.

Read what I wrote without your personal biased, he brought justice to an unjust people regardless of the nations, tribes, of nationality.

Regarding his final days or his death, it is all speculation zero evidence.The time period of barbarism, injustice, ignorance is not something to be proud about unless I stand corrected.

The skills for competence are the same skills necessary to recognize competence.

[Shah-i-Kot]

lol Alexander is a spec on the list of all the foreigners defeated in Afghanistan- like the Persians, Mongols, Indians, British, Russians...just a spec. In fact, I think the British put up a better fight before their whole army was massacred at Khyber.

Instead of creating a fantasy in your head, you should gloss over the history of why the Ottoman Turks ruled and conquered Greece, Macedonia, and the rest of Europe for such long time, even holding territory today.

Why did the brave Greeks stop fighting?

[Apollyon]

lol Alexander is a spec on the list of all the foreigners defeated in Afghanistan- like the Persians, Mongols, Indians, British, Russians...just a spec. In fact, I think the British put up a better fight before their whole army was massacred at Khyber.

Instead of creating a fantasy in your head, you should gloss over the history of why the Ottoman Turks ruled and conquered Greece, Macedonia, and the rest of Europe for such long time, even holding territory today.

Why did the brave Greeks stop fighting?

The evidence of "ancient's" please provide the study. Turk is a very general some are closer to Indo-European while others to Orientals your confusing the term "Turk".

356 B.C.

• Alexander born in Pella. The exact date in unknown, but probably either 20 or 26 July.
• Philip captures Potidaea.
• Parmenio defeats Paeonians and Illyrians

335 B.C.

• Early spring: Alexander goes north to deal with Thrace and Illyria.
• Revolt of Thebes.

329 B.C.

• March-April: Alexander crosses Hindu Kush by Khawak Pass.
• April-May: Alexander advancing to Bactria; Bessus retreats across the Oxus.
• June: Alexander reaches and crosses the Oxus; veterans and

329 February Armies unite in Arachosia326 February Hephaestion advances through Gandara to Indus

Alexander campaigns in the Swat valley

Alexander takes the Aornus rock http://faq.macedonia.org/history/alex.timeline.html

http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_chrono.html

.. both in his lifetime and posthumously (the Alexander myth or legend) - are simply staggering.
...The traditional enemies of Macedon in Greece were thrilled to bits, whereas those Greeks and non-Greeks who had gladly worshipped him as a living god felt genuinely bereft.

..the Archaeological Museum, Istanbul, adorned with images showing Alexander hunting either a human or animal prey.
..One of our best sources on Alexander, Arrian, focused on one particular quality of Alexander, his pothos or overmastering desire to achieve or experience the humanly - and divinely - unprecedented. Alexander's hunt for what was in the end unattainable by him in his lifetime provides us with the chance, and the motive, to conduct a new hunt to try to capture the daunting immensity of his achievement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/alexander_the_great_01.shtml

Alexander was not Greek he was born in Pella and his mother was from Pella a city of "illaryans- Indo-European" and his father Macedonian.

[khushal]

Read what I wrote without your personal biased, he brought justice to an unjust people regardless of the nations, tribes, of nationality.

Regarding his final days or his death, it is all speculation zero evidence.The time period of barbarism, injustice, ignorance is not something to be proud about unless I stand corrected.

The skills for competence are the same skills necessary to recognize competence.

You just showed me an old dictionary and some quotes from the quran. What does that prove mr. loony.
Actually he did not really build anything, the persians are the ones who build the civilization and the greeks/mecedonians invaded it like barbarians and took it over. Most of the Greek work was actually tranlated from persian, babylon and Ancient Egyptian scholars in Alexandria which is in egypt not Greece. The whole Greek civilization is a myth to make the western world feel superior.

[Apollyon]

You just showed me an old dictionary and some quotes from the quran. What does that prove mr. loony.
Actually he did not really build anything, the persians are the ones who build the civilization and the greeks/mecedonians invaded it like barbarians and took it over. Most of the Greek work was actually tranlated from persian, babylon and Ancient Egyptian scholars in Alexandria which is in egypt not Greece. The whole Greek civilization is a myth to make the western world feel superior.

Persia is an awful term that generalities the entire region, often one group does not give credit to another i.e.. Iran claiming they are the center of the region. The old dictionary showed the true measure of wealth..Gold this has never changed unless you have something to counter claim.

Incompetent people are unable to recognize competence in others.

The religious context match's historical attributes characteristics to Alexander as noted in Old testament, historians of Macedonia and Persian connotation. Greek civilization is not myth unless the source is a Dravidian-Mongoloid admixture.

[khushal]

^^dont call yourself incompetent, you can learn if you really want to. Just step out from the loony world you live in and embrace reality.