Genghis Khan Fate in Afghanistan (?)

[RevolutionThroughReason]

conquerring is when people no longer want to resist. Its when they welcome you with flowers instead of guns.

You can conquer people even if they resist, conquering simply means defeating, it doesn't mean that people won't contend that defeat

look at Romney, he was defeated but "resisted" the election ./....Pashtuns have been conquered quite a few times ...and heck even now are a conquered peoples.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You can conquer people even if they resist, conquering simply means defeating, it doesn't mean that people won't contend that defeat

look at Romney, he was defeated but "resisted" the election ./....Pashtuns have been conquered quite a few times ...and heck even now are a conquered peoples.

I woukld disagree. Elections and wars are apples and oranges. The former has a defined end point the latter can be stretched on through decades by the right tactics.

The Pashtuns lost some initial battles but the Americans themselves concede that the war is turning into a defeat.

Conquer really means when you quell everything. It would be more correct to say the American Indians were finally conquered when Tecumseh was murdered. But right up till then they were defeated in battles but not a conquered people.

NATO having a few outposts here and there and having to wage a war against shadows in the dark is hardly a win for them.

Afghan history does show that everyone from Alexander onward thought it easy to enter the land. What they did not anticipate was the indefatiguable resistance that was like alternating low and high levels of inflammation on the body of the occupant. Folks ended up hemorrhaging resources, blood, and treasure to hold on to that prime piece of land.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You can disagree ...but it doesn't change the fact that Pashtuns have been conquered.

heck even Ahmad Shah was a servant of Nadir Shah, and was Khushal Khan was a Mughal servant, can't get more conquered than that. Even if Khushal rebelled, he eventually had to run and hide in his own land from other Pashtuns trying to kill him in service of non-Pashtuns

Just like what's happening now in Afghanistan

conquered is as conquered does

[BarakzaiAbdali]

You can disagree ...but it doesn't change the fact that Pashtuns have been conquered.

heck even Ahmad Shah was a servant of Nadir Shah, and was Khushal Khan was a Mughal servant, can't get more conquered than that. Even if Khushal rebelled, he eventually had to run and hide in his own land from other Pashtuns trying to kill him in service of non-Pashtuns

Just like what's happening now in Afghanistan

conquered is as conquered does

I still strongly disagree that you have proven any point regarding Ahmad Shah Baba and Khushaal Khan Baba and servitude.

All Khushaal Khan had to do was quietly go back to his village and live off a Mughal pension after his jail term was done. Its not like Aurengzaib would not have preferred to have that outcome than the one that happened.

Refer to my discussion regarding Ahmad Shah Baba and Nadir Qoli in the other thread.

The more accurate term is that Pashtuns have been under constant assaults due to where they live and have time and again proven intractable.

Conquer means subdued forever to most of the public. That is exactly why the Americans hesitate to say Afghanistan is pacified. Even the most staunch neocon avoids the term conquer (a term they have used for Iraq). Conquer usually goes hand in hand with constancy.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Once I see casinos in Waziristan and Arghandaab where blue eyed blond haired folks named Tim and Gina call themselves Tim Wazir and Gina Dorani and claim 1/38 Afghan blood then I will concede. Otherwise - the verdict is still out.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It's already happened

http://www.royalark.net/Afghanistan/warburto.htm

[Apollyon]

conquerring is when people no longer want to resist. Its when they welcome you with flowers instead of guns.

Wise words friend.

Since Alexander the Great

Alexander was the only person in who conquered (stayed-united, won the hearts) in Afghanistan but it was a love affair he did not pass through. The few that defied him were not intelligent lacked clarity.The region benefited in greater Aryana for hundreds of year education, economics global unity.

Chengis was woken by a princess from Uzbek/Tajikistan ordered the killing of his travelers-relatives, often we blaim him but this royal princess is the root of all the mess. Did chengis go out of line marauding yes but he was a brilliant politician hiring Muslim engineers and scholars in his tent community (they had zero culture which is why they could live anywhere) ultimately he failed where Alexander succeeded winning the hearts of global community.

The Afghans drove out Genghis Khan

...and the British

and the Soviets
http://www.progressive-charlestown.c...ghanistan.html

..to paraphrase Winston Churchill on Bolshevik Russia: “Afghanistan is an unpleasant land, filled with unpleasant people, armed to the teeth, and eager to shoot any foreigner or anyone of themselves.”

..His firstborn son and heir to his great empire would be an Afghan and Alexander made the Afghans full partners in his great new world. What Alexander did not try to do was to force Greek customs and Greek values, like democracy, upon the Afghans. He not only allowed them to keep their customs, he adopted the customs of the Afghans and the Persians. Alexander became a national hero to the Afghans, who still invoke with awe the name of Skander (Alexander).

..A recent distinguished American statesman said that all Alexander did was to pass through Afghanistan. The statesman was dead wrong in his knowledge of history. Alexander, from 330 until 327 BC, systematically conquered the country by the most ruthless exercise of military force. Then having conquered the Afghans, he won their hearts. ..lexander died in 323, and his Afghan son did not live to inherit the promise of a world empire. But Alexander’s imprint upon Afghanistan remained for two centuries. From 330 BC until 150 BC, Afghanistan was part of a Macedonian-Greek- Afghan kingdom. The cultural values of Greece merged with those of Persia and the Afghans, to create a multi-cultural diverse state..

..The Soviets sought to create a communist state in Afghanistan, with officially sponsored atheism, the education of women, and the rejection of traditional Islamic life. That is why the Soviets failed. The lesson of history is that neither American- style democracy nor Soviet- style Communism will win the hearts of the Afghans.

http://bigthink.com/learning-from-the-past/afghanistan-the-lessons-of-history

Those are your choices live like a culture less chengis or a lion hearted Alexander.

[Shahidulla]

You can conquer people even if they resist, conquering simply means defeating, it doesn't mean that people won't contend that defeat

look at Romney, he was defeated but "resisted" the election ./....Pashtuns have been conquered quite a few times ...and heck even now are a conquered peoples.

nope look at the definition:

1. to take control of a country or city and its people by force:
2. to defeat somebody, especially in a competition, race, etc:
3. to succeed in dealing with or controlling something:
4. to become very popular or successful in a place.

How can someone be conquered if he can still resist doesn't that touch your mind?

I know u love to put hate on afghans/pashtuns, but your no match for the history that has been repeating itself, nor do you have enough proof, authentic source to be insulting afghans/pashtuns, im talking about ur whole posting history. You are a verry bad person with a curse on afghans.

if there is even a place that should be named Unconquered the 1st place would be taken by Afghanistan.

[Kushan Prince]

Wise words friend.

Since Alexander the Great

Alexander was the only person in who conquered (stayed-united, won the hearts) in Afghanistan but it was a love affair he did not pass through. The few that defied him were not intelligent lacked clarity.The region benefited in greater Aryana for hundreds of year education, economics global unity.

Chengis was woken by a princess from Uzbek/Tajikistan ordered the killing of his travelers-relatives, often we blaim him but this royal princess is the root of all the mess. Did chengis go out of line marauding yes but he was a brilliant politician hiring Muslim engineers and scholars in his tent community (they had zero culture which is why they could live anywhere) ultimately he failed where Alexander succeeded winning the hearts of global community.

The Afghans drove out Genghis Khan

...and the British

and the Soviets
http://www.progressive-charlestown.c...ghanistan.html

..to paraphrase Winston Churchill on Bolshevik Russia: “Afghanistan is an unpleasant land, filled with unpleasant people, armed to the teeth, and eager to shoot any foreigner or anyone of themselves.”

..His firstborn son and heir to his great empire would be an Afghan and Alexander made the Afghans full partners in his great new world. What Alexander did not try to do was to force Greek customs and Greek values, like democracy, upon the Afghans. He not only allowed them to keep their customs, he adopted the customs of the Afghans and the Persians. Alexander became a national hero to the Afghans, who still invoke with awe the name of Skander (Alexander).

..A recent distinguished American statesman said that all Alexander did was to pass through Afghanistan. The statesman was dead wrong in his knowledge of history. Alexander, from 330 until 327 BC, systematically conquered the country by the most ruthless exercise of military force. Then having conquered the Afghans, he won their hearts. ..lexander died in 323, and his Afghan son did not live to inherit the promise of a world empire. But Alexander’s imprint upon Afghanistan remained for two centuries. From 330 BC until 150 BC, Afghanistan was part of a Macedonian-Greek- Afghan kingdom. The cultural values of Greece merged with those of Persia and the Afghans, to create a multi-cultural diverse state..

..The Soviets sought to create a communist state in Afghanistan, with officially sponsored atheism, the education of women, and the rejection of traditional Islamic life. That is why the Soviets failed. The lesson of history is that neither American- style democracy nor Soviet- style Communism will win the hearts of the Afghans.

http://bigthink.com/learning-from-the-past/afghanistan-the-lessons-of-history

Those are your choices live like a culture less chengis or a lion hearted Alexander.

Now your speaking out of your ass. Alexander never conquered the area of Afghanistan. Invaded yes, conquered, no In fact even Alexander himself couldn't win the hearts of the afghan people so you are infact wrong.

[Kushan Prince]

You can disagree ...but it doesn't change the fact that Pashtuns have been conquered.

heck even Ahmad Shah was a servant of Nadir Shah, and was Khushal Khan was a Mughal servant, can't get more conquered than that. Even if Khushal rebelled, he eventually had to run and hide in his own land from other Pashtuns trying to kill him in service of non-Pashtuns

Just like what's happening now in Afghanistan

conquered is as conquered does

That's where your wrong. They were not conquered. They were invaded without notice but not conquered. If they were conquered, the pasthuns would have not fought so many empires back. Of course it is how you define the 2 terms. After all, Afghanistan has a reputation of being given the title "The graveyard of empires".

[khushal]

Wise words friend.

Since Alexander the Great

Alexander was the only person in who conquered (stayed-united, won the hearts) in Afghanistan but it was a love affair he did not pass through. The few that defied him were not intelligent lacked clarity.The region benefited in greater Aryana for hundreds of year education, economics global unity.

Chengis was woken by a princess from Uzbek/Tajikistan ordered the killing of his travelers-relatives, often we blaim him but this royal princess is the root of all the mess. Did chengis go out of line marauding yes but he was a brilliant politician hiring Muslim engineers and scholars in his tent community (they had zero culture which is why they could live anywhere) ultimately he failed where Alexander succeeded winning the hearts of global community..

I would disagree with this. Kunar was the first place that Alexander received injury in battle, and it was during the exhausting afghan campaign where his troops attempted mutiny because his troops actually thought Alexander was insane to continue the Afghan campaign.

[Apollyon]

Now your speaking out of your ass. Alexander never conquered the area of Afghanistan. Invaded yes, conquered, no In fact even Alexander himself couldn't win the hearts of the afghan people so you are infact wrong.

The passion's of tribal simpletons, slipping on foolish folklore Kushan isn't that some half bred oriental people?

Provide the evidence that Alexander lost, he continued his pursuit of world dominance, some would attribute divinely inspired how a man with small army could crush the Persian empire with all its resources on horse back.

Alexander left forts, cities named after him etc..evident from the following believe it or not makes no difference to me.

1.historians countless.
2.bible Daniel 8:7,8
3 Koran Qur'an 18:85+ Ddhul qarnian

[Apollyon]

I would disagree with this. Kunar was the first place that Alexander received injury in battle, and it was during the exhausting afghan campaign where his troops attempted mutiny because his troops actually thought Alexander was insane to continue the Afghan campaign.

Alexanders face had scars long before Afghanistan, it reminded him of lions, his coat of arms and at battles he wore lion on his head.

Koran 74:51 fleeing from a lion
bible Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion



Alexander wrote to his mother regarding the people from kabul valley to Kunar- kafirstan traditions reminding him of home obviously if you are going to enter a city or nation you will face resistance at first...

..the Aspasioi and Assakenoi soldiers earned the admiration of the Greeks for their fighting ability..

.. modern remnants of these clans are the Pachai, the Asip or Isap or the Yusufzai in the Kabul valley between the rivers Kabul and Indus.

..t is obvious that although individually the former Kamboja constituents had offered stubborn resistance, they failed to create a united front against Alexander. It seems that the ancient custom of forming leagues or confederacies amongst the Kambojas

http://panhwar.com/rarebooks/The%20I...he%20Great.pdf

[khushal]

^^ you have not demonstrated anything constructive. Resistance never ended that is why he had a mutany on his hands. Not only did he nearly die from a native kunarian arrow but also from his own men that thought he was going insane to continue the afghan campaign. You must understand why this place is called the graveyard of Empires. Empires get trapped in Afghanistan because they lose so much blood and wealth to try to control it, they dont want to give in and think that the already spilled blood and lost resources was at a loss, they keep going on and on trying to make sense of it and refuse to allow the fallen to be shamed, but the conclusion is the same and they everntually realize it is no use like an addicted gambler who never realizes that he/she should cut his/her loses and walk away.

[shamla12]

By the way, the identity of Dhul Qarnain is unclear yet many scholars of Islam suggest that it could have been Cyrus the Great. I think there might be more evidence it is him but Allahu Alam...