Pashtun Macedonian link

[Wahe Guru]

so they live in north india and have done for centuries. thats what i'm saying.

yes anybody can live in north india for centuries. of course chamaars have lived all over north india for centuries and thousands of years.

[Wahe Guru]

so the man in question is an Indo Aryan?

why do you ask so many questions and never answer even simple questions about yourself?

[Wahe Guru]

that must have been difficult

No. Its easy. If it makes you happy for me to say Indians are Chinese, then I can say that. Be happy.

[JattApache]

No. Its easy. If it makes you happy for me to say Indians are Chinese, then I can say that. Be happy.

We are all humans

But genetically indo aryans are different to dravidians

[Wahe Guru]

so the man in question is an Indo Aryan?

So according to you he is not an Indo Aryan? What is he then?

He has got to be something or other. We know he is Indian or perhaps a Pakistani, but he also belongs to some individual group. Like Afghans can be Pashtuns, or Tajiks or Uzbeks or Nuristanis and a hundred others from this tribe or that tribe.

Well you give us a photo of an Indo Aryan? Or if you are saying they were/are fairy tales then say so.

And answer questions that were asked of you.

Tell us what indo aryan means - if anything?

what does Iranic mean?
what does Indo-Iranian mean?
what does Indo-European mean?
what does Turkic mean?
what does Germanic mean?
what does Slavic mean?

[Wahe Guru]

Jatts do not have blonde hair and blue eyes

There are a small number of Jatts that you might find with blue or green eyes (probably Sikh Jatts), but they are not present in any significant amount. These are the people that mixed with people further west for centuries (probably with Pashtuns) and then emigrated to Indian Punjab at partition.

The red highlighted bit is total nonsense. What makes you an authority on such things? Thats why we asked who and from where are you?

Nobody moved to my village at partition and we have various types of people living there and none of them are mixed with Pashtuns or Greeks lol.

And how do you know Pashtuns are not mixed with Georgians or Armenians or Russians or even Germans? One of the Saffavid kings moved 100,000 Georgians and Caucasus people to Iran after just one battle and countless more later. Most of the Saffavids had Georgian mothers and then they appointed Georgians to govern in Afghanistan - the parts they ruled. So then Geogians were roaming around most of Afghanistan.

[Apollyon]

We are all humans

But genetically indo aryans are different to dravidians

That is correct different ..Neither Eurapoid or Aryan.

Europeans consider Dravidians as Gypse Roma, and in American courts .....

..intermarriages did occur producing an intermingling of the two and destroying to a greater or less degree the purity of the “Aryan” blood. The rules of caste, while calculated to prevent this intermixture, seem not to have been entirely successful... the given group [Asian Indian] cannot be properly assigned to any of the enumerated grand racial divisions. The type may have been so changed by intermixture of blood as to justify an intermediate classification. Something very like this has actually taken place in India. Thus, in Hindustan [India] and Berar [town in India] there was such an intermixture of the “Aryan” invader with the dark-skinned Dravidian.

..Four days later, his U.S. citizenship was revoked. He continued to petition for citizenship over the next few years, until finally the issue reached the U.S. Supreme Court for a decision. On February 19, 1923, the Supreme Court rescinded his citizenship on the grounds that Thind was not "white," and disqualified "Hindus" from naturalization

”
According to the Court, "Congress, by the Act of February 5, 1917, 39 Stat. 874, c. 29, § 3, has now excluded from admission into this country all natives of Asia within designated limits of latitude and longitude, including the whole of India." Bhagat Singh Thind claimed the right to citizenship as a white person, following the original naturalization statute of 1790. The Court concluded that the 1917 statute applied to Bhagat Singh Thind and thus supported the revoking of his citizenship, per the request of the Naturalization Examiner (who had originally objected to his being granted citizenship).

The Court concluded that "The term 'Aryan' has to do with linguistic, and not at all with physical, characteristics, and it would seem reasonably clear that mere resemblance in language, indicating a common linguistic root buried in remotely ancient soil, is altogether inadequate to prove common racial origin

..Neither Eurapoid or Aryan.

The opposite side argues in their teachings of Aryan history and Aryan invasion theory...


Now, based on what has been presented above, following facts about an ancient and glorious period of India clearly emerge:

1. The Aryan Invasion and Racial theories, and Aryan-Dravidian conflicts are a 19th century fabrication by some European scholar. They are being exploited even now for political reasons.
2. The hymns of Rigveda had been composed and completed by 3700BC, this can be scientifically proved.
3. The language of the Indus script is related to Sanskrit, the language of Vedas.
4. The Indus valley civilization should be aptly called as Saraswati Vedic civilization, as the new evidences and right interpretation of the archaeological findings indicate.
5. There is now strong evidence that the movement of the ancient Aryan people was from east to west, and this is how the European languages have strong association and origin in the Vedic Sanskrit language.
6. The ending of Indus Valley and the Saraswati civilization was due to the constant floods and drought in the Indus area and the drying up of the Saraswati river. This had caused a massive emigration of the habitants to safer and interior areas of the Indian subcontinent and even towards the west.
7. There was no destruction of the civilization in the Indus valley due to any invasion of any barbaric hordes.
8. The Vedic literature has no mention of any invasion or destruction of a civilization.
9. There is no evidence in any of the literature which indicate any Aryan-Dravidian or North-South divide, they were never culturally hostile to each other.
10. The population living in the Indus valley and surrounding the dried up Saraswati river practiced the Vedic culture and religion.

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_histor...n_agrawal.html

Don't mean to sound like a realist but I hope this is not what post-modern Hindus believe.

[Wahe Guru]

That is correct different ..Neither Eurapoid or Aryan.

Europeans consider Dravidians as Gypse Roma, and in American courts .....

..intermarriages did occur producing an intermingling of the two and destroying to a greater or less degree the purity of the “Aryan” blood. The rules of caste, while calculated to prevent this intermixture, seem not to have been entirely successful... the given group [Asian Indian] cannot be properly assigned to any of the enumerated grand racial divisions. The type may have been so changed by intermixture of blood as to justify an intermediate classification. Something very like this has actually taken place in India. Thus, in Hindustan [India] and Berar [town in India] there was such an intermixture of the “Aryan” invader with the dark-skinned Dravidian.

..Four days later, his U.S. citizenship was revoked. He continued to petition for citizenship over the next few years, until finally the issue reached the U.S. Supreme Court for a decision. On February 19, 1923, the Supreme Court rescinded his citizenship on the grounds that Thind was not "white," and disqualified "Hindus" from naturalization

”
According to the Court, "Congress, by the Act of February 5, 1917, 39 Stat. 874, c. 29, § 3, has now excluded from admission into this country all natives of Asia within designated limits of latitude and longitude, including the whole of India." Bhagat Singh Thind claimed the right to citizenship as a white person, following the original naturalization statute of 1790. The Court concluded that the 1917 statute applied to Bhagat Singh Thind and thus supported the revoking of his citizenship, per the request of the Naturalization Examiner (who had originally objected to his being granted citizenship).

The Court concluded that "The term 'Aryan' has to do with linguistic, and not at all with physical, characteristics, and it would seem reasonably clear that mere resemblance in language, indicating a common linguistic root buried in remotely ancient soil, is altogether inadequate to prove common racial origin

..Neither Eurapoid or Aryan.

The opposite side argues in their teachings of Aryan history and Aryan invasion theory...


Now, based on what has been presented above, following facts about an ancient and glorious period of India clearly emerge:

1. The Aryan Invasion and Racial theories, and Aryan-Dravidian conflicts are a 19th century fabrication by some European scholar. They are being exploited even now for political reasons.
2. The hymns of Rigveda had been composed and completed by 3700BC, this can be scientifically proved.
3. The language of the Indus script is related to Sanskrit, the language of Vedas.
4. The Indus valley civilization should be aptly called as Saraswati Vedic civilization, as the new evidences and right interpretation of the archaeological findings indicate.
5. There is now strong evidence that the movement of the ancient Aryan people was from east to west, and this is how the European languages have strong association and origin in the Vedic Sanskrit language.
6. The ending of Indus Valley and the Saraswati civilization was due to the constant floods and drought in the Indus area and the drying up of the Saraswati river. This had caused a massive emigration of the habitants to safer and interior areas of the Indian subcontinent and even towards the west.
7. There was no destruction of the civilization in the Indus valley due to any invasion of any barbaric hordes.
8. The Vedic literature has no mention of any invasion or destruction of a civilization.
9. There is no evidence in any of the literature which indicate any Aryan-Dravidian or North-South divide, they were never culturally hostile to each other.
10. The population living in the Indus valley and surrounding the dried up Saraswati river practiced the Vedic culture and religion.

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_histor...n_agrawal.html

Don't mean to sound like a realist but I hope this is not what post-modern Hindus believe.

Europeans consider Dravidians as Gypse Roma, and in American courts ..... Most Dravidians would probably consider you an idiot.

and in American courts .....at that time American women could not vote. So were American women Dravidian Gypse Roma at that time?

[Apollyon]

Europeans consider Dravidians as Gypse Roma, and in American courts ..... Most Dravidians would probably consider you an idiot.

and in American courts .....at that time American women could not vote. So were American women Dravidian Gypse Roma at that time?

India (cast system excluded) is the largest Democracy and has favorable women right's conditions, with a populas middle class..best part.... it is modeled after Greece.

Stay on topic.

[roadrunner]

if India's society is modelled after Greece then Greece must be a camel dung heap.

India's middle class is as rich as Uganda's poor, women's rights in the eyes of the law is average though not favourable, women's living conditions is very unfavourable, and it is the world's largest democratic illusion.

[roadrunner]

The red highlighted bit is total nonsense. What makes you an authority on such things? Thats why we asked who and from where are you?

Nobody moved to my village at partition and we have various types of people living there and none of them are mixed with Pashtuns or Greeks lol.

And how do you know Pashtuns are not mixed with Georgians or Armenians or Russians or even Germans? One of the Saffavid kings moved 100,000 Georgians and Caucasus people to Iran after just one battle and countless more later. Most of the Saffavids had Georgian mothers and then they appointed Georgians to govern in Afghanistan - the parts they ruled. So then Geogians were roaming around most of Afghanistan.

You can trace where features come from. It's very easy.

you might dream you have various types of people in your village. but i can say with a lot of certainty that most of your village will look like the person in my avatar.

[roadrunner]

We are all humans

But genetically indo aryans are different to dravidians

The Indo Aryan chamaar looked dravidian.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The whole greek emphasis sounds more like an attempt to prove that Pashtuns have euro blood coursing through their veins. There seems to be some deep resentment and inferiority complex that I have yet to fathom amongst Eastern people of all brands, Arabs, Persians, and Asians alike.


I believe I have a better theory than this Sikander Arachosia near nonsense mythology. The notion that Alexander built a whole new city in a less developed and distant outpost where there was likely already some population seems a little less likely that he did what the Americans and the British and others have done, which is he built some garrison to fortify temporary gains. This was not the pharoahs Egypt where he could utilize fantastic resources to build Alexandria.

Let me provide you the basis... it lies in linguistics. The Turks have their term Iskender (which the Persians also use) for Alexander. We the Pashtuns call him Sikander. So the mythology perpetuated in education Pashtun circles is that the Kand in Kandahar derives from siKANDar or from GANDahara for the Indo Aryan focused theoreticians.

However, remember your Pashtun roots. What about Nangrahar?

KandAHAR and NangrAHAR

Despite the varying Arabicized spellings of Kandahar with a Q equivalent Qaf versus the K equivalent Kaaf, in Pashto documents of older times the K was used as often as the Q.

So what does NangraHAR mean? The ahaar suffix may very well mean "garland of", "the decorated nape of - as in necklaced if that could be a verb"
So then the areas name would translate to: Nang's vale or the area of those that wear their Nang. nang means of course, honor. A more common place rendering would be Place of Honor.

The K sounding kaaf based spelling of Kandahar then gives us an easy and much more common sense meaning to the name Kandahar.

Look at a topographical map of Afghanistan. Kandahar rests away from the mountain range in a sea level/vally like location relative to the nearest range. KANDE in pashto is well known to us Pashtuns. For instance, the joke is: haar Kande ke da Russyaan maree prataa dhee or In every vally or crevice there are the corpses of Russians!

So KANDahaar is then simply the the "Place of Kand" or the Revined Area or the City in the Vally.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

One direct proof of Indic mixing in the near modern era is a first hand story from a Wazir tribal elder. I think it provides a rather pertinent point in that folks on both sides generally consider the suleiman mountain/FATA tribes to be the last bastion of pure Pashtun traits.

He said that the Wazirs imported Hindus to do money handling and manage finances for the Wazirs in that this was seen as a lowly task unbefitting them. It likely was labeled as honor related but in reality was pragmatic in that a neutral party amongst the clans (in this case the hindus) were able to handle financial matters in a high stakes environment where clan rivarly could errupt if money was lent between clan members and not repaid. The clans unified over their protection of the hindu money changers. Folks that troubeled the clan's hindus would have their houses burned down.

Those that would ask me to buttress this with examples from literature, I can refer you to the fact that this tribal like trait extended into Kandahar as well. It is a documented fact that Ahmad Shah Baba imported Indians who involved themselves in the economics of Kandahar.

Subsequently, as times got tougher, or circumstances changed these hindus converted into Islam and even married into the clans and were absorbed.

A recognition of a hindu convert can be be given in the example of just the recent era where a hindu convert female to Islam was forced back to her parents home and this sparked a near holy war to break out against the British mandates that regulated this sort of thing.

[Wahe Guru]

You can trace where features come from. It's very easy.

you might dream you have various types of people in your village. but i can say with a lot of certainty that most of your village will look like the person in my avatar.

"You can trace where features come from. It's very easy. "
Would you kindly write down the trace method here for all to see.
Sitting on your backside somewhere, you even no more than me about my village and what people look like there.

So where are you from? Too afraid to say LOL. Dont worry I will tell you for comfort that you are related to Alexander the Great.